Turning Chaos into Purpose: Jackie Otero’s Life After Divorce

Jackie Otero
00:00:00

I got home from work one day. It was. It was like a Wednesday, I think, and nobody was home.

And it was so rare that I had a moment to myself at the house that I was kind of like, oh, quiet. It was wonderful. So I was not upset about it. So I just remember having like an hour or two to myself and it started to feel weird.

And I was like, something's off. I wonder where they are, what they're doing. And I figured they were over at their grandma's house.

Cause a lot of times they would stay over there for a meal or something like that. And I call over there because I was calling my husband at the time I was calling him, there was no answer. I called Grandma.

She hadn't heard from them or seen them. And it got to be about 8:00 and it's getting dark outside. It's a school night, you know, the kids have preschool the next day.

And I was just like, where are they? This is weird. And I started to get that, like, weird feeling that something is not right. At that time, we didn't have, like, find my iPhone.

Like, I couldn't just like, look and see. And I was like, how do I find out where they are? You know? And I think we had like a T Mobile account and he had a Google phone or something.

And I like, remember I got on the phone with customer service at T Mobile, and I was like, how do I track this phone? You know? And I was just trying to find any way to do it. And they actually showed me there was a way through his Google account to track it.

So I was able to see that his phone was in St. Augustine, which is about two and a half hours away from us. And I was like, that's weird.

And it was like, you could even see it was right off the highway, like. And in my brain I was like, they're in a ditch on the side of the road. Like, there's. It's been an accident because you still.

Matt Gilhooly
00:01:40

Don'T know where your kids are.

Jackie Otero
00:01:42

No. No sign of the kids today.

Matt Gilhooly
00:01:44

My guest is my friend Jackie Otero. And you'll hear how interesting this was to record with a friend for the first time in a couple years now. I.

I always say that these episodes at the end, I feel like I know my guests as friends, but it's. It's a totally different story coming into it already knowing a person. Jackie is a Florida Supreme Court certified family mediator.

She's a business professional, she's a higher education leader, and she is a great human before she discovered her passion for helping families kind of navigate conflict and find peace in these really hard divorce moments, Jackie faced one of the most challenging chapters of her life. And this was grappling with the chaos of addiction in her family, financial uncertainty because of it, and ultimately divorce.

In this episode, Jackie shares the pivotal moment that shifted her life. The year she dedicated to trying to fix what felt unfixable and how those hardships ultimately led her to a fulfilling career helping others.

Jackie's story is a testament to the strength that it takes to rebuild from really hard moments and the clarity that can emerge from some of life's most chaotic moments. So, without further ado, here is my conversation with my friend, Jackie Otero. I'm Matt Gilhooley, and this is the Life Shift.

Candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever. Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Life Shift podcast. I am here with Jackie. Hello, Jackie.

Jackie Otero
00:03:27

Hey, Matt.

Matt Gilhooly
00:03:29

This is very weird. Everyone listening now? I know Jackie. Jackie and I have known each other now 15 years, maybe, something like that, probably.

Jackie Otero
00:03:37

So, yeah, full disclosure. We'll put it right out there.

Matt Gilhooly
00:03:41

And so what's weird about that? It's not weird in the sense that I know for that long.

It's weird for listeners because I haven't talked to someone about their personal story on this podcast that I know since I think maybe the first 10, 15 episodes of the show. And this is episode 168.

Jackie Otero
00:04:03

Wow.

Matt Gilhooly
00:04:03

So there's been a big gap. So thank you for. For bridging that gap.

Jackie Otero
00:04:08

You're welcome. I think I was just way too scared in the beginning.

I remember we had mutual friends that were on the podcast, and I listened to all of them, and I was like, wow, I can't believe they're just going out there and saying all of this stuff. So it just took me a couple years to come around.

Matt Gilhooly
00:04:21

Hey, you know, I think that's okay. I think we're all on our own timetable.

And I think what I've learned over the last three full years almost of doing this show is that everyone's story has value both to the storyteller by telling that story and letting it out. But also, there's so many people that we probably will never interact with that are hearing our stories and.

And, like, going, oh, I'm not alone, or, oh, I'm not weird for thinking that however long it took you, I'm glad you're here because I think your story is important. And before we were recording, I was like, as. As odd as some of the moments that you might feel are in your story.

There are probably other people out there that have experienced something very similar.

Jackie Otero
00:05:07

I'm sure. I'm sure that's true. And this is coincidental, but it's 10 years since my moment that I picked to share.

And so it's crazy that you were there when that was happening for me too. So, I mean, you heard about it in some respect when it was actually happening.

Matt Gilhooly
00:05:25

And you know what I think, too? We work together for so long, and I think we naturally our generation, because we're the same age. We.

Jackie Otero
00:05:34

You're one month older.

Matt Gilhooly
00:05:35

Well, that's true. We show up to work. I think we show up to work differently, though. We. We were taught to kind of come into work. We leave this other stuff behind.

We don't share all of the things we. So I probably know part of your story. I don't know that I necessarily know all the ins and outs of it because we weren't really brought up that way.

We weren't really taught to share as much. And I'm glad that we are like, as a generation, like, we're starting to learn that as we get older.

But, you know, I think, yeah, I probably know your story, but I don't know if I know your story.

Jackie Otero
00:06:09

Well, I felt the same way about you because I listened to your episode telling your story too, and it was like I knew it, but I didn't know it in that level of depth and feeling behind all of it, you know? So I feel like I've gotten to know you better just by listening to your podcast.

Matt Gilhooly
00:06:25

Well, I appreciate it. Thank you for listening. It's really been a quite a journey. And thank you for being along the ride for the whole part of it. It's been.

It's been really fun. So let's get into your story. Before you do that, though, maybe you can tell us who Jackie is in 2025. We're starting out the new year. Who are you?

Jackie Otero
00:06:43

I'm a mom. I have two kids. They are 11 and 13, both middle schoolers. So I am really deep into parenting of middle schoolers right now.

And that is its own challenge and fun altogether. So definitely that's kind of how I identify. First, I work in higher education and I do adjunct teaching, but I'm also a family mediator.

So I'm a business owner. So I have a few different kind of professional roads that I'm on right now. I don't know. Let's stick to that right now.

I think that's how I'm defining myself.

Matt Gilhooly
00:07:21

There's a bonus piece that you're also narrating some audiobooks and things like that as well. Dabbling there.

Jackie Otero
00:07:27

Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm doing so many different things. Yeah, I just decided I wanted to be an audiobook narrator.

So I did four narrations through audible and I got paid for them. So that was really cool.

Matt Gilhooly
00:07:39

Exactly.

Jackie Otero
00:07:39

It was just one of those things where you like are curious about it and then you Google it and you just start doing it.

Matt Gilhooly
00:07:44

So yeah, you're just doing all the things. You're starting your own. Like when I met you, I never would have guessed these are the things you'd be doing.

You know, you didn't even have kids then.

Jackie Otero
00:07:53

I know I was a very different person then. Even though I was the same person. I feel the same since I was like 12, you know.

But yeah, it's been interesting because I don't always feel like I'm driving the ship of where things are going. Sometimes I feel like I'm along for the ride and I'm seeing where things take me, which is uncomfortable. Like I want to be driving for sure.

Matt Gilhooly
00:08:16

Yeah. I think we all end up realizing that we're not really driving. It's just.

Jackie Otero
00:08:20

Yeah, exactly. Like life still just kind of happens to you and throw things at you and then you kind of let it take you where you may.

I mean, I will say when I was 19, I got a tattoo and it was the whole theme of it was go with the flow. It was like a clock, like a symbol of a clock with waves going around and it was like to remind myself to just go with the flow.

So, you know, sometimes I think my 19 year old self had a good idea there.

Matt Gilhooly
00:08:44

Were you more go with the flow back then or were you trying to convince yourself to be more go with the flow?

Jackie Otero
00:08:50

I probably was more go with the flow back then. I think I've tightened the reins a little bit as I've gotten older. But it's a good reminder to try to be that way.

Matt Gilhooly
00:08:59

You never know what you're going to get to experience if you kind of let things also happen. So this journey was just all happenstance, you know. So I mean, it's just been really great.

And so I loved seeing that you're dabbling in all these different areas now and you're like, so what if it doesn't work? It doesn't work. But I tried it.

Jackie Otero
00:09:16

Yeah, it's really freeing. It's like scary, but it also is freeing and fun. And I hadn't tried a new career in a long time.

I mean, I was with the same kind of umbrella company for 17 years. So going into family mediation has been a totally new thing for me, and I think it came out of left field for a lot of people.

Like, oh, what made you decide to do that? So I think a lot of that is kind of central to the story.

Matt Gilhooly
00:09:41

To your story.

Jackie Otero
00:09:42

Yeah, exactly.

Matt Gilhooly
00:09:43

Yeah.

I think if these moments didn't occur in your life, you probably wouldn't be doing what you're doing now, because the things that happen to us or around us or the things that we make happen lead us down these different paths that we never could have. Imag. So I think that's a perfect segue. Nice work, Jackie.

Jackie Otero
00:09:59

Thank you.

Matt Gilhooly
00:09:59

To bring us to this segue, I'll let you kind of paint the picture and go back as far as you need to of kind of your life leading up to this pivotal moment that we're going to be centering today's conversation around.

Jackie Otero
00:10:11

Okay, so probably around the time when we met, we were in our mid to late 20s, right?

Matt Gilhooly
00:10:17

Yeah.

Jackie Otero
00:10:18

And late, late 20s. Okay, well, so I'll say, you know, in my late 20s, I was married. I was just starting to have kids. I had my first kid at 30 and my second at 31.

That was my whole center of my life, was my marriage and growing my family. And I had married somebody who I went to kindergarten with. And so it was somebody that felt like family from the very beginning.

And we didn't actually date until we were 25. So it's not like, oh, yeah, we're together since, you know, the beginning, but we knew each other.

We were in a lot of the same activities in the same circles. So we just knew each other's presence.

Like, we have school pictures together from elementary school, and I played softball with his sister, so we were teammates. So I knew his parents from being at all the ball fields growing up. And it was just like, an easy transition to become family with this person.

Matt Gilhooly
00:11:15

It was like comfort.

Jackie Otero
00:11:17

Yeah, totally comfort. And it was sort of like.

It just felt like we had this great story, and I think I was, like, really invested in the story of I met somebody from kindergarten, and then I went away, because I moved away. I went to school out of state. I moved to California. I moved to New York.

And then somehow I ended up, at 27, marrying somebody that I went to kindergarten with.

Matt Gilhooly
00:11:39

Right. It is a good story.

Jackie Otero
00:11:41

It was a cool story. It really was. And, I mean, I remember he proposed to me on our playground of, like, where we Grew up. So it's just like very sweet and idyllic.

Matt Gilhooly
00:11:52

Yeah. And you can harp back to like those moments of childhood and think, remember when we did this? And there's a lot of these memories of growing up too.

Even if they weren't in the same exact circles all the time. You could relate to the neighborhood to the exact other.

Jackie Otero
00:12:06

Yeah, literally we grew up in the same neighborhood.

Matt Gilhooly
00:12:09

I can't relate to any. I don't know anyone from that long in my life. Not a person.

Jackie Otero
00:12:13

Yeah, it's pretty wild. I mean, it is just to have that kind of level of history with somebody.

We literally have a picture standing next to each other in one of our class pictures in elementary school. So it's just kind of a wild thing. And it just, it felt really good finding somebody like that.

And I sort of felt like it was the first person who wanted to marry me and it was sort of a romantic thing.

Matt Gilhooly
00:12:39

I talk to people about this. For myself personally, so much of my life in my 20s and maybe probably in my 30s was very much a checklist kind of thing.

Like, I have to do this next. Like you have to get married, you have to have kids, you have to have a good job, get promoted, all these things. Did you have any of that drive?

Jackie Otero
00:12:57

Totally, totally. It just, it felt like it was prescribed. Right. I didn't even question it. Like it.

It was so ingrained into me that I didn't even think of anything else.

And I remember I used to journal in high school, college years and I wrote down my 10 year plan when I was in college and I followed it like almost exactly. But unfortunately it was only 10 years, so I.

Matt Gilhooly
00:13:23

You didn't know what to do after that?

Jackie Otero
00:13:24

Yeah, exactly. But I was like saying, oh, at this time, this when I'm going to get married and at 30, I'm going to have my first kid and this is what.

And, and I did it. So it felt like it was just all on track. So I would say that was kind of the feeling I had. Not to say that my marriage was perfect.

That certainly nobody says, yeah, that was definitely not the case. But it felt like it was the right path. And I never imagined not being married to him.

Matt Gilhooly
00:13:52

And at the same time, I think it felt like from what I could see, you were also very career driven. A very, like you had purpose there as well.

Like, I know you had this family life and that was a big goal of yours, but I think from the outside seeing you, you were very driven in the workplace as well. To be successful, to get promoted to all these things that we were trained to do as kids. So that.

That played a big part in that period of time too, right?

Jackie Otero
00:14:23

Yeah. And I think we. We were both right there, literally side by side, kind of getting promoted and growing within the company and all of that.

So, yeah, it was pretty great. Like I. When the. I always say, like, when the corporate ladder is good to you, it's good.

Like when you keep getting promoted and you get more responsibility and more credibility or clout or whatever it is, it can be very rewarding until it stops rewarding you. I don't know. I definitely felt that that drop off.

Matt Gilhooly
00:14:51

Yeah. I think my chase was very much.

I feel like I was trying to find something that would feel good or I would feel good enough or successful enough or whatever it might be. And it was like every time I would get promoted, I would be like, not yet. Like, it's not here yet.

So I was trying to like, run away from something or find something. I don't know what it was.

I don't know if that's any of the drive that you had or if it was just like, I just want to be successful or run away from home.

Jackie Otero
00:15:22

I think it felt pretty good at the time because I don't. I don't think I was trying to like, rise up the ranks. I felt that I was being recognized for things I was doing.

I just kind of went with the opportunities that came and it felt like I was being rewarded.

Matt Gilhooly
00:15:38

So it felt good. You were. I don't ask that with any preconceived notions.

I just think of myself of like, when I look back in that time period of my life, there was not one of those moments that the happiness of the promotion or whatever it was that I was in at the moment, none of those moments lasted very long until I was like, well, that didn't fill the bucket. So moving forward. So always curious if other people feel the same way.

Jackie Otero
00:16:09

Well, and you kind of bring up like, how did it connect with my personal life? It was my stability.

Matt Gilhooly
00:16:14

Oh, yeah, for sure.

Jackie Otero
00:16:15

My career was my stable place. And so whatever was happening in my personal life, I could go to work and it would be predictable.

And so I think I've safety comfort in that for sure.

And I think that's why I also never really looked for another job or did anything because it was sort of like, okay, I can at least go to the office for the day. This was back in the day when we were in the office every day. And it was just like, I knew what to expect. When I was there, it wasn't chaos.

And so, you know, it's like problems come up and you're always dealing with things, but it's like you kind of know what you're walking into for the most part. So. And at the time, you know, I had a boss who also was super understanding and flexible with me and gave me a lot of autonomy and trusted me.

So it was, it was a safe place to go when my home life was wild.

Matt Gilhooly
00:17:04

Starting to. Yeah, because you, you were married and then pregnancy is back to back.

So not only are you, you have a child, but now you're pregnant again, which another child is coming, so you have those responsibilities. I know being a mom is a full time job on top of a full time job, so I can imagine that just as one person, that would be a lot.

But then bringing in a marriage piece to that probably added a little challenge.

Jackie Otero
00:17:32

Well, yeah, so I got promoted to head the department while I was on my second maternity leave. I actually learned that I got that promotion and then the first day back from my second maternity leave, that was when I started the new position.

Matt Gilhooly
00:17:46

I don't think I knew that.

Jackie Otero
00:17:47

Yeah, it was wild because I was, I was at work on both of my due dates, so it was all happening. So, yeah, I had, at home, I had a newborn and a one year old and I was in a new role as like a department head. It was not an easy time.

Matt Gilhooly
00:18:03

Yeah. Plus you're, you're married, which is, in an ideal world, a partnership. Was it still a partnership at that point or were things kind of.

Jackie Otero
00:18:11

It was, I think when the kids were really little, he was really involved. He had his own business at the time, and so he was the more flexible parent. I was the one at the office every day.

So he really was in charge of the kids day to day. And he would kind of do jobs here and there and his mom would help watch the kids when he needed to go do a job. So.

So yeah, it was, it was a partnership at that point when they were little. And he always wanted to be a dad. In fact, I kind of always felt like he was ready before me.

It was like as soon as we bought a house, he was like, all right, let's start having kids. Like, we got the room. Now there's no excuses, you know. So he just always wanted to be a dad.

I think I was always maybe a step behind him, but I was on board.

Matt Gilhooly
00:18:53

Right, of course.

Jackie Otero
00:18:54

But he was sort of like, yep, now's good, let's go for It. I definitely did not think my kids were going to be so close together. I did not plan it that way. It just sort of happened. So, yeah, it was.

Those first couple years are a blur because I was working really hard coming home to an increasingly chaotic home life, which I know I keep alluding to because there wasn't. Like I didn't really know what was happening at the time. I feel like I kind of lost grip on what was happening at home and I was in survival.

Matt Gilhooly
00:19:28

It's probably your subconscious protecting you a little bit, right?

Jackie Otero
00:19:31

Yeah. And my kids didn't really sleep that great when they were little, so it was like I was completely sleep deprived and I would.

I nursed both kids for a year each and it was just kind of like physically draining in every way, which then becomes normal.

Matt Gilhooly
00:19:46

Right? Then it start. Just starts to become normal. So even little things that change don't feel so drastic, I think.

Jackie Otero
00:19:53

Right, right. Well, where I feel like I started kind of losing what was going on at home was I realized that we just, we didn't ever have any money.

And I was like, I keep getting promoted, I keep getting more money, but we never seem to have it. It just keeps disappearing. And I just feel like I couldn't pay attention to it enough to know where it was going.

But I knew it just was always so tight. And so that was another stress level too. It was sort of like we just never had enough money.

Like to the point where I was afraid that a bill was going to bounce our bank account. You know, it was like really tight, month to month, paycheck to paycheck.

Matt Gilhooly
00:20:34

And logically it didn't make any sense in your head because you're like, he has a business. I'm successful at work. Like, I'm smart.

Jackie Otero
00:20:43

I know. I was like, I have a business degree. Like I run budgets, I should know how to do this.

But it was like I didn't have the mental capacity to keep track of it and it just kind of got away from me.

Matt Gilhooly
00:20:55

I think what you said earlier is like that, that safe space was work. And so you could control everything at work. Like you could make the decisions, you could, you know, all those things.

And so it, it kind of fulfills that need. And at home you're just like just melting into whatever is exist. Like I fall into the wall because, you know, it's.

I control everything there and I just can't do it everywhere.

You're only one person, but you're probably not the only person that has lost track of that or felt like, because looking back, you now see that you lost track, but in the moment, you probably were just like, I'm so tired. Like, everything's chaotic. I can't. I can only do this, right?

Jackie Otero
00:21:36

I mean, I felt the stress, but I didn't really know the source or. You know what I mean? I couldn't, like, connect all the dots.

Matt Gilhooly
00:21:44

Were you someone that would talk to people about these things, or was it more pride or things like that you wouldn't share?

Jackie Otero
00:21:51

I don't think I did. It felt so private. My husband at the time was very protective of not sharing what was happening inside the marriage and inside the home.

And I wanted to respect that. So I don't think I told people. I don't think hardly anybody really knew what was going on.

Matt Gilhooly
00:22:12

I mean, I. I think that's normal. I think that's very generational of, like, we keep everything inside. We don't share.

But so, like, if you have nowhere to put that, you just push it down and you just do what you can. You. You control the things you can, and the other things, you're like, I'll deal with them later.

Jackie Otero
00:22:30

Exactly.

Matt Gilhooly
00:22:31

I think it's normal.

Jackie Otero
00:22:33

And part of the chaos, too. The kids at this point, like, going into.

When they were maybe 2 and 4, they were in preschool at that point, and some of the chaos that I mentioned would be like, the preschool director would call me at work sometimes and be like, oh, nobody picked up your kids today, and I would have to go drive over there and go get them. Or it was just like, exactly what you said. I could hold it together at work, but things outside of work, I just felt like I couldn't control it.

I could tell that my husband was spinning out. Like, things weren't happening. Kids aren't getting picked up, money's disappearing.

Like, I knew something was happening, but I didn't exactly know what it was. And I did not grow up with any addiction in my life. Like, my parents didn't have any addiction. It just wasn't part of my upbringing, thankfully.

And so I didn't even recognize that it was addiction that was kind of the common thread that was connected to all of this.

Matt Gilhooly
00:23:33

I hate to keep going back to our age, but it's like, really like, growing up, we didn't. Even if our families had these things, we probably wouldn't have known too much because people didn't talk about it.

It wasn't like it is now where people are very open about the things in their lives. I talk about some of the addictions and the Things that I had, you know, like eating disorders and those kind of things that come along with it.

But, like, growing up, we weren't allowed to talk about that.

Like, the only time we would see something that was addiction related would be, like, Jerry Springer, Lori Povich, like, and it would be to the extreme. Right.

Jackie Otero
00:24:09

Super dramatized.

Matt Gilhooly
00:24:10

Yeah, exactly. You would be, oh, well, I would definitely recognize that because that's what it looks like. But.

Jackie Otero
00:24:16

Right. Like holding a bottle all day, drinking and. You know what I mean? Like, and it. To me, it wasn't obvious.

I really didn't know that it was happening for a long time.

Matt Gilhooly
00:24:26

How did it start to unfold, though? Because eventually you did.

Jackie Otero
00:24:30

Yeah, well, I mean, I feel like the moment that I chose to share is sort of the moment that it all clicked. So this was in 2015, so 10 years ago. Again, my kids were 2 and 4 at the time. I got home from work one day, it was.

It was like a Wednesday, I think, and nobody was home. And it was so rare that I had a moment to myself at the house that I was kind of like, oh, quiet. It was wonderful. So I was not upset about it.

So I just remember having like an hour or two to myself and it started to feel weird. And I was like, something's off. I wonder where they are, what they're doing.

And I figured they were over at their grandma's house because a lot of times they would stay over there for a meal or something like that. And I call over there because I was calling my husband at the time I was calling him, there was no answer. I called Grandma.

She hadn't heard from them or seen them. And it got to be about 8:00 and it's getting dark outside. It's a school night. You know, the kids have preschool the next day.

And I was just like, where are they? This is weird. And I started to get that, like, weird feeling that something is not right. At that time, we didn't have, like, find my iPhone.

Like, I couldn't just, like, look and see. And I was like, how do I find out where they are? You know? And I think we had like a T Mobile account and he had a Google phone or something.

And I, like, remember I got on the phone with customer service AT T Mobile, and I was like, how do I track this phone? You know? And I was just trying to find any way to do it. And they actually showed me there was a way through his Google account to track it.

So I was able to see that his phone was in St. Augustine. Which is about two and a half hours away from us. And I was like, that's weird.

And it was like you could even see it was right off the highway, like. And in my brain I was like, they're in a ditch on the side of the road. Like, there's. It's been an accident because you still.

Matt Gilhooly
00:26:27

Don'T know where your kids are.

Jackie Otero
00:26:28

No, no sign of the kids. And I just was imagining all these horrific things of what it could be.

But the fact that he wasn't picking up his phone and the phone wasn't moving, it was there, it was stopped. It just seemed like it was an accident. And so, like, my heart drops. I'm like, I don't even know what to do at this point.

I ended up calling the police and I just explained the situation. I'm like, is there any way I could have police go over and try to see what's going on or where they are?

And so, like, the local police connected with the St. Augustine police. And anyways, they ended up finding them. And they were at a gas station right off the highway.

The police called me and said, we found your kids, we found your husband. They're okay, but he doesn't know where he is, and he's very disoriented. You need to come pick him up. He's not in any trouble.

They were like, you know, he's not under the influence. He's not in any trouble. But we'll stay here with them and bring some diapers because one of your kids needs a new diaper.

And so I want to say this is like getting close to 10 o'clock by this point where we've actually found where they were. And so my dad came over, picked me up, and we drove out to St. Augustine. So it's probably close to midnight by the time we get out there.

And sure enough, they're just hanging out at a gas station. And the police were there waiting with them.

And they talked to me and they said, you need to take him to the hospital or take him to the doctor first thing in the morning. And I said, okay. And he was just really in a daze. He was very out of it. The kids were okay, but they were. It was just all out of sorts.

You know, I get them. My dad drives home, I get in my husband's car and we all drive home. And on the drive home, we pass by this campground, you know, like on i95.

There's like these campgrounds along the way. And I remember him saying, let's pull off, let's stay at the campground tonight. And it was just like. It was all very bizarre.

And I was like, no, we're going home. I'm like, I gotta work tomorrow. There. It's. The kids have school. Like, we're not going to a campground.

And it was like he didn't know where he was or where he was going. He didn't know why he was in St. Augustine.

Matt Gilhooly
00:28:44

That's so scary.

Jackie Otero
00:28:45

He was telling the police these different stories about, like. About going to a baseball game and going to. Going to Nana's house, which Nana doesn't live anywhere near there.

It was just, like, these little fragments. And I just was so confused. But I was like, let's just get home. Thank God everybody's okay.

We get home the next morning, I take him straight to the doctor, where I took him to the family doctor first. I don't think he slept all night because he was, like, almost kind of comatose in the morning. Zombie, like.

And I took him to the doctor, and the doctor kind of took one look at him and said, take him to the er and so I took him to the er and we ended up getting checked in. And I'm still like, what is going on? What is happening here? And the nurse told me this is classic alcohol withdrawal.

Matt Gilhooly
00:29:34

Oh, wow.

Jackie Otero
00:29:35

And I was like, what? And I found out that alcohol withdrawal is one of the most serious types of withdrawals that you can go through. Like, more so than most drugs.

And they say it's the one withdrawal that can kill you. And I knew he was a problem drinker.

I'll say that that's about as much as I would acknowledge, is that he would drink too much some nights and kind of pass out and.

Matt Gilhooly
00:30:00

But something we normally sometimes would brush off.

Jackie Otero
00:30:04

Yeah, exactly. I just kind of was like, he parties a little too hard on the weekends sometimes with his friends.

But he always would say, oh, I could stop drinking anytime. And he would.

He would go cold turkey sometimes and just not drink for a month, you know, so it was sort of like he always felt like he was in control of it. So I trusted that too. And so that's exactly what happened. He decided to stop drinking that week, and somehow that time was different.

And he fell into a really bad alcohol withdrawal. So he ended up in the hospital. He spent a night or two there, and he was having, like, a lot of delusions. It was a lot of paranoia.

Like, he thought the nurses were going to kill him. And what was crazy is that he would act normal when a doctor would come into the room.

And like, he could talk in this performative way that made it seem like he was fine. And then the doctor would leave and he would tell me, he's trying to kill me. I can tell that that medicine he's bringing me, he's trying to kill me.

And I was like, what's going on here? I mean, it lasted for a while. So that's the night that I thought of when I'm thinking about, like, kind of what. What changes your life in a moment.

I always look back to that night because it really never was the same after that.

Matt Gilhooly
00:31:23

It's like the curtain was pulled back a little. You got to see full view, full view of everything. And I.

And I think of you, knowing you and knowing the work side of you and the fixer side of you and the.

The problem solver side of you, this probably felt very out of control for you personally, because knowing you, I'm thinking you probably are like, how do I fix this? Like, of course, how do I solve this?

Like, even in your picking him up and all these parts of the story, I know other people that probably would have said a lot of choice words and acted a lot differently than the way that you tell your story. So I know part of you was like, what do I do? How do I fix this?

Jackie Otero
00:32:06

Oh, 100%. That's my reaction. And I would say, for the next three years, I tried to fix it. That was the main goal.

I was like, besides work, that was the main goal of my life, was let me try to fix this scenario that has gone out of control.

And I became kind of his manager of his addiction, which, you know, now having distance from it, it's not shocking that that didn't work, you know, because it's like, when somebody is an addict, you can't fix it for them. They have to want to fix it for themselves. But it was like everything was on the line. It was my marriage, it was my family, it was my kids.

Matt Gilhooly
00:32:41

And I'm like, your storybook.

Jackie Otero
00:32:42

Exactly, exactly. And I'm like, I am going to do everything I possibly can to fix this. So it kind of started this chain reaction of lots of rehab.

So he did end up in and out of rehab over the course of about three years. Luckily, our insurance was decent enough to cover a lot of it, but it still was expensive. He did some inpatient, some outpatient. He was.

Baker acted, I think, a total of four times, which in Florida is the involuntary psychological hold. So sometimes he would be picked up by police like he was wandering around somebody's backyard one day, and police picked him up and Baker acted him.

Like, those were the things that would just happen randomly. It was like. The way I describe it is like a wire came loose, and it just, like, never reconnected after then.

Matt Gilhooly
00:33:34

But how for someone, like. Like, if we take it to you, how hard is that when you.

Because I'm sure that you have a lot of love for him and you loved him at the time, and you probably still love him in a lot of ways.

Jackie Otero
00:33:49

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly
00:33:50

How does that love change for you in a way that, like, you're seeing that. I'm just. This is gonna be very surface, level sounding, but, like, oh, he's not changing for me. He's not. Do you.

Did you have any of those feelings of, like, why won't you just do this for us? Or. Or were you logical enough to realize that. That it's not quite possible?

Jackie Otero
00:34:10

I'm not sure.

Matt Gilhooly
00:34:12

Okay.

Jackie Otero
00:34:13

It's hard to remember. I don't think I was holding it against him.

Matt Gilhooly
00:34:17

That's good. That's very big of you.

Jackie Otero
00:34:19

I think I felt that if he followed my lead, I could help him fix it.

Matt Gilhooly
00:34:25

Like, all you have to do, there's a. There's the program steps.

Jackie Otero
00:34:28

Exactly.

Matt Gilhooly
00:34:29

Follow through. Exactly.

Jackie Otero
00:34:31

And you called me a fixer, and I totally am. Like, I'm a problem solver, and I will read the books and I will do the research, and I will follow the steps. So I'm just kind of like, come along.

Follow these steps. Like, there's a way to get out of this.

Matt Gilhooly
00:34:45

Did you feel like you were pushing him, or did he feel like he wanted to do it as well?

Jackie Otero
00:34:49

Oh, no. I pushed the whole time.

Matt Gilhooly
00:34:50

Okay. Yeah. And. And to that point, it's really. I.

I can equate it to just, like, someone that's, like, in a deep depression, or you're in that feeling like, nobody can really fix it for you or push you into until you're ready to be like, okay, I'm ready to approach this, or whatever.

Jackie Otero
00:35:07

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly
00:35:08

I'm ready to come on the Life Shift podcast and talk about it. You know, I think there's.

You and I are so very similar in a lot of ways of wanting to control certain things and knowing that we can in a lot of our lives. There's a lot of avenues in our lives where that has been successful for us.

Jackie Otero
00:35:26

Yep. You and I were both managers together.

Matt Gilhooly
00:35:28

Yeah.

Jackie Otero
00:35:28

We know how to manage and problem solve. Like, that's what we're good at.

Matt Gilhooly
00:35:32

Exactly. And. And life in other ways went in the ways that we wanted it to because we put in the work and we made things happen.

But then you have this, like, entity that you're not fully in control, and it makes it really challenging as a human does.

And so I guess the question really goes to does that unsuccessful, if we quote, unquote, unsuccessful, period, does that do anything to you and your psyche and the way that you operate in the world?

Jackie Otero
00:36:00

I mean, it was definitely crushing because when I always felt like when I got married, when I said those vows, I meant them, I was totally committed to being married, and I never imagined myself being divorced. And so admitting that I couldn't keep living that way and admitting that I couldn't fix him, it was a personal failure. That's what it felt like.

Divorce feels like failure, for sure. But I also had this other layer of it where I was like, he's sick. And how do you leave a sick person?

Matt Gilhooly
00:36:33

That makes it harder.

Jackie Otero
00:36:34

Yeah. I was like, if he had cancer, I wouldn't be leaving him. He has this other sickness. How can I leave him?

Matt Gilhooly
00:36:42

That's really hard.

Jackie Otero
00:36:44

Yeah. So that, I think, was the hardest part about just trying to figure out what do I do when clearly I'm not fixing it, it's not working.

Matt Gilhooly
00:36:54

And all the while, I feel like your professional life was, like, buttoned up. Do you think that was a save for you? Do you think that was still your comfort, safe space? Or was that. Did that make it doubly hard?

Jackie Otero
00:37:07

No, I think it. It helped. I think I'm really good at compartmentalizing.

Like, I've always been one of those people that I put the blinders on and I don't notice other things that are happening around me.

Matt Gilhooly
00:37:18

I don't think you're like that as much anymore.

Jackie Otero
00:37:20

I used to be.

I remember when we would sit in those cubicles if I was working on a project, somebody could be saying my name and I don't even hear them because I'm just so focused on something.

So it was like I could go to work and just focus on other things, and it would actually relieve some of that home stress to just have tasks to do at work that I could fix.

Matt Gilhooly
00:37:40

Right. It's. I mean, does that become a second job in trying to save this idyllic vision that you had for.

For your life and for your kids lives and for your husband's life and all of your entire family? Because this isn't just about you and your ex husband. This is about your parents, his parent.

You know, like, everyone is involved in this because not in the exact thing. But whatever happens next doesn't just affect you, right? And you can't control really what's happening next.

Jackie Otero
00:38:13

When I started to question things like why, like, this is the father I chose for my kids, and now they're growing up in chaos. I remember coming home from work, I ended up signing up my kids for karate.

It was like one of those you pay by the month and you could just show up anytime. And so that was my backup plan. If I would come home and it was a really chaotic, bad scene at home, I'd be like, okay, kids, we're going to karate.

And we would just get in the car and go. So it's like I had to have all these backup plans in place.

Usually home, like after work, that's kind of your safe place to relax and unwind and be yourself. That was the harder job that I had to come home to.

Matt Gilhooly
00:38:57

How long was this period of time in which you gave it your all until you broke? Essentially it was three.

Jackie Otero
00:39:04

It was three years.

Matt Gilhooly
00:39:06

Took you three years. Because I would imagine three years of doing something, Doing something. It just becomes like, this is life now. How do you determine that?

Now it's Jackie's time to make hard decisions, do things that serve me, maybe more than serving others.

Jackie Otero
00:39:25

The sad thing is, I don't think I made the decision for myself. I made it for my kids.

Matt Gilhooly
00:39:31

That's honorable.

Jackie Otero
00:39:32

It was like, this is not an environment that they can, that they deserve. I was like, I don't want them growing up in this chaos.

And I remember reading a book, I'm always trying to do, like a calculation that will, like, give me the right answer. And I remember buying this book. It was called, like, should I stay or Should I go? And it was like I was trying to calculate, okay, when do I leave?

When do I say, enough's enough.

And I remember, like, one thing that I took out of that book was, do you want your kids to see your marriage as an example of what a marriage should be? And I was like, oh, that hit me right here. And I was like, this is not what I want for them.

And so in my mind, at about the two and a half year mark of going through all this, in my mind, I said, I'll go through one more cycle. I'll go through one more cycle of recovery and relapse and chaos. And it was leading up to our 10 year anniversary.

And I remember thinking, like, we got this. We can make it to 10. But in the back of my mind I was like, I'm not going to Go through it again.

And sure enough, the, the roller coaster went back around right back to where it kept going.

And I was like, I ended up filing for divorce before the 10 year anniversary because I was like, I can't, I can't go into the next ten years like this.

Matt Gilhooly
00:40:51

Yeah, you already know a couple cycles and what it looks like after the cycle. Do you regret that last cycle?

Jackie Otero
00:40:59

No, I think I had to do all of that to get myself to a place where I felt good doing it. Because I have never regretted filing for divorce and I think I would have regretted it if I felt like I didn't like give it my all.

And so I think I needed to set that.

Matt Gilhooly
00:41:19

You needed data.

Jackie Otero
00:41:20

I did.

Matt Gilhooly
00:41:21

You needed data and metric. I mean, it makes sense. I mean, it's just, you're like, okay, I'm feeling a certain way, but maybe I'm a little delusional.

So I'm going to try it one more time to confirm. I don't mean to push regret on anyone. I'm just curious, you know, like, there are things that I've done.

I'm like, well, I shouldn't have done that again. But I, I love that you found that space. Because I think there's a lot of people that are probably in very similar situations.

They want to fix, they want to save, they want to whatever and they can't get yet to a point in which they realize that there, maybe there isn't a save. Maybe the save is the hard decision.

Jackie Otero
00:42:00

Exactly. And I think I just, I had nothing left in the tank. I had to hit that point where I was like, there's no other option. Now I have to leave.

Matt Gilhooly
00:42:11

Do you feel like a different person though, now comparatively?

Jackie Otero
00:42:15

I feel a lot more knowledgeable.

Matt Gilhooly
00:42:18

Well, I meant, I don't mean logistically, I mean like emotionally. Do you feel more secure in your decisions than you did before? Do you feel the same?

I feel like something like that, if it were me, I feel like I would be like, dang, I did this.

Jackie Otero
00:42:34

Yeah, I mean, I guess I don't think about it, but yes, I'm going to say yes, I do feel that way because I was really scared of being a single mom and I knew he was not in any shape to parent, so I sort of figured I was going to be doing it on my own at some point. And that was very scary. And I was not confident in myself being able to do that.

Which now when I look back I'm like, it's so much easier doing it by myself than doing it in that circumstance that I was in before. And so I think, yeah, I think I do kind of believe in myself after going through that. Like, I've. I can do all of this.

Matt Gilhooly
00:43:11

I mean, even from the day I met you, I was like, she could do anything. Like, she could conquer anything.

And I think what makes sometimes people maybe, like, you feel that way is that growing up, you had this picture of a married life, so you always had a partner to help you there, and that maybe that's where some of the doubt comes from. Because I think as an individual, you've always knocked all the things you've tried to do out of the park with everything you could control.

So I had no doubt that you were gonna take care of your kids and everything would be fine, so.

Jackie Otero
00:43:44

Well, thank you.

Matt Gilhooly
00:43:45

Like you said, it taught you a lot.

Jackie Otero
00:43:46

Just going into the unknown. That's what it is. And, you know, my parents are still married happily to this day. I'm like, I. I'm not a divorce person.

Like, that's not, you know, it's like an identity thing.

Matt Gilhooly
00:43:58

It is. And I think we put a lot of pressure on that. I mean, divorce is just another change in life. And, yeah, you know, people change too.

You said you learned a lot through this, and. And obviously you're helping people through this with your.

Your business, but none of this would have been true now of what you're doing if you didn't hit some bump. Like, where was it a struggle at first? Or did you. Were you, like, good. Got this.

Jackie Otero
00:44:29

It was easier than I thought it was going to be, really. The. The period of the divorce and everything leading up to it.

Hardest part of my life, once it was all done and I had a new place to live and I had a. I just had kind of a new life to start. I felt amazing because you could make all the decisions. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly
00:44:49

You didn't have to think. I mean, you had your kids, but, yeah, you could make all the choices.

Jackie Otero
00:44:53

Just making all the parenting decisions, making all the school and the financial decisions. I think I tend to hoard those things because I do like to have control, but, man, it's so much easier now. And my house is calm.

And I think that's the big thing, too, is just like, the house environment is what I always wanted it to be like. This is a safe, calm home to come home to. There's not chaos here.

Matt Gilhooly
00:45:18

And now that your kids are teenagers, there's probably a lot more interaction and decision making and things that can come along with that. So now, like, you can help guide Them in the ways that they want to go, too.

Jackie Otero
00:45:28

Oh, yeah. I'm not saying any of it's easy. No, but it's. But there's stability. It feels. It feels stable.

Matt Gilhooly
00:45:35

And you feel solid in your decision making because it's your decision. You didn't have to convince someone of something or bend over backwards to make something else happen. So.

Jackie Otero
00:45:46

Right.

Matt Gilhooly
00:45:46

I think that's great what happened in that divorce journey, and. And maybe something didn't, but what happened in that journey to make you want to help other people through it?

Jackie Otero
00:45:57

So, because I filed my own divorce, I didn't know that I kind of got the ball. Yeah, I did it all myself in.

Matt Gilhooly
00:46:05

The beginning, although that doesn't surprise me.

Jackie Otero
00:46:08

Well, I was a corporate paralegal after college, so I'm good with paperwork. I just decided to just do it. So I just did all the paperwork myself, went to the courthouse and just got the ball rolling.

So I ended up kind of being the default friend that people would come to. To be like, how did you do that? And I helped several friends kind of get their stuff in order and help them file their own divorce.

It kind of filed away in the back of my mind that I could help people do that. But again, I was on that corporate ladder that we talked about, and I was being rewarded, and I was still being rewarded.

I mean, I got my last promotion three and a half years ago, and it was sort of like I didn't really have space to just go become a.

Matt Gilhooly
00:46:53

You can help people still, but in your own helpful way.

Jackie Otero
00:46:58

Sure. Exactly. As a friend. But then corporate ladder, it rewards you for a while. And then my position got cut.

And so I guess that's sort of a little bit of the career portion shift, where all of a sudden I, you know, that that upward trajectory at the company was over. That's when I decided to become a mediator because I finally had the time and space to do it, and I needed to figure out a way to make more money.

And it was just one of those things. I actually had a friend, I helped her kind of unofficially mediate with her ex husband when they were having some arguments over the holidays.

And she's an attorney, and she actually told me, you know, you should become a mediator. You're pretty good at this. And so I've been in many meetings.

Matt Gilhooly
00:47:51

With you, so I think you're pretty good at it.

Jackie Otero
00:47:54

Oh, thanks. And so I had looked up the requirements of how do you become a mediator?

Because I went through mediation during my divorce, and I saw that you know, you kind of get credit for having a master's degree. You get points for certain things. And then you take a certification class. You have to do a certain number of mentorship hours, this and that.

And so when I, when my position got dissolved, I decided to do the class and get my certification. And that was just about a year ago that I did that and just decided to go for it. I launched my own business and I was like, I'm gonna be.

I'm gonna be a family mediator and so I can help people get divorced.

And my goal is to do it as peacefully as possible and to keep people out of court and to kind of help people through that kind of awful transition time, to let them know, like, it is better on the other side once you get through it.

And the crazy thing that happened, I don't know if you know this, my very first clients that I had when I opened my business was this lovely couple who, one of them was right out of rehab. They were trying to reestablish time sharing with the kids. But when somebody comes right out of rehab, they can't just go straight to 50, 50 custody.

It just is kind of a recipe for disaster to put a lot of responsibility on somebody who's in recovery very freshly. And so I ended up writing this parenting plan for this couple.

It was like a three tiered parenting plan to say, okay, first step, we're just going to do some weekend visits and it's like a warm up, right. And then second step, we're going to start doing every other weekend with overnights. And then third step, we're going to work our way up to 50, 50.

And I did this whole plan for them and it was like I knew exactly what they were going through.

And the parent who was in recovery was sort of doing all the things that I had wished my ex husband would have been able to do, which is actually stay on that path to recovery and like set yourself up for a plan for success and get time with your kids. And my ex husband never did that. He was never able to pull himself out of it. And this couple or this ex couple, that's what they were trying to do.

And so that was my very first mediation that I did on my own was for somebody who was in a very similar situation.

Matt Gilhooly
00:50:18

Things aligned in a. In a weird way, it was kind of crazy.

Jackie Otero
00:50:21

Yeah, it's like, how does this happen, happen? Like, the universe sends me this as my first client.

Matt Gilhooly
00:50:27

And knowing you personally and knowing you through this last year of, you know, obviously it's not easy to start a business and get your name out there and do all these things that come along with it.

But when I do see you talking about it or when we talk about these things, you have a different like lightness or happiness towards the work itself than I've ever experienced.

Not to say that you didn't like your jobs before, but, but this feels like more like aligned to the things that, that drive you, but now with your own personal experience and kind of driving you more so, I mean I, it feels very aligned.

And I say all that long piece to, to go back to when you said your job dissolved because I look at that moment very similarly from the outside as to when the curtain was pulled back from your ex husband and you kind of saw all the things the dissolution of your, your job was like, oh, it served me, it served me well.

But all the stuff I was putting into this, and this is, these are assumptions here, but all the stuff that I'm putting into this, climbing this corporate ladder to get here, here, here, giving back so much and it can just go away like that curtain pulled.

Jackie Otero
00:51:40

Bingo. No, I think that that's a perfect metaphor and I don't think I ever thought about it that way, but I think you hit the nail on the head.

It's like, I think I always thought that my job was more than a job. I found purpose in it. I felt a lot of responsibility, a lot of personal investment in it.

And I always kind of thought the company felt the same way about me.

Matt Gilhooly
00:52:07

They probably did at times.

Jackie Otero
00:52:08

Well, I'm sure some people did, but that's sort of a wake up call to be like, oh, when it comes down to it, I'm still just a line item on a spreadsheet and I'm replaceable. You know, in our jobs we're all replaceable. And that's a hard lesson to be hit in the face with.

To just be like, literally one day I go to work and poof, my job is gone.

Matt Gilhooly
00:52:28

If we could take the money part out of it and just pretend we had all the money and we could do whatever we wanted.

Does any part of you see that as like kind of a little blessing in disguise of now you get to kind of adventure into other things and try other things because you kind of have to. But at the same time now you can lean into more joy in certain things?

Jackie Otero
00:52:51

Yeah, I think so for sure. I think after the initial shock of it wore off because my initial reaction was total panic. But after I got.

Yeah, I've had two Bitterness, anger, a lot of bad things.

Matt Gilhooly
00:53:02

We have it all. Yeah.

Jackie Otero
00:53:04

I think after that wore off, I was like, I'm gonna be happy. This happened because I was not happy in the job. Not at all. But it was sort of too good of a job to leave of my own volition.

And I had so much invested into it, I don't think I would have left. And I don't think I had any fire under me to be looking for something. So there was part of me that was relieved also.

Matt Gilhooly
00:53:33

You didn't know you were going to be relieved at the end, but, yeah, you know, I get it, because I think things can be so. Not to say that the work is easy, but it can be comfortable. And you kind of. Yes, it's a known entity.

You kind of know the world you're existing in, and you don't have to, like, start anew. So that's easy to stay. And it's a lot harder to jump out on your own and try to do all these things and make it happen.

But in your example of your first client that you had in your business, it's like, I can't imagine how fulfilling and, like, how warm you must have felt in the sense of, like, I'm helping this sliding doors version of Jackie, of, like, you know, had things gone a little bit differently, someone would have been helping me do this. Maybe I can empathize with so much of that story, despite not having any of that story, because I think there's.

There's so much that you and I have in common that. That. That through line feels very common, but, like, totally different.

Jackie Otero
00:54:41

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly
00:54:42

Makes any sense.

Jackie Otero
00:54:43

Well, and I'll tell you something that happened in the last month that you don't know. I went to a meeting of family therapists because that was one group that I really wanted to get some. Get.

Get to know more family therapists, because I thought that could be a really good, healthy pipeline. Somebody's going through marriage and family counseling, but it's not working out.

Perhaps they can then come to a family mediator like me to help them with the next steps. And so I went to this group of family therapists, and, man, it is like the nicest group of people you want to ever be in a room with.

It was so warm and inviting. I was like, these are the people I want to be around. At the table where I was sitting for this event, I was introducing myself to people.

And there were two people that worked at the rehab center.

Matt Gilhooly
00:55:31

Oh, wow.

Jackie Otero
00:55:32

Where my ex husband spent a lot of time. And I Used to go to the family sessions there. And it sort of hit me when they introduced themselves, and I found out that that's where they worked.

I was like, oh, like, I'm getting chills thinking about it right now. I'm like, oh, I know that place really well from a different side.

I told them a little bit, just on the spot, I told them a little bit about this story, which I don't normally share this with people I know really well, much less strangers. And I told them this personal connection I had to this rehab center in that moment.

I said, you know, I'd love to meet with you all sometime and see if there's a way I can help the families that are in recovery there. And I actually have a meeting with them next week. And I'm like, I think I could be a mediator helping people coming into recovery.

I ended up having lunch with one of the therapists, and she said, there's nobody that does that. There's nobody that has that niche. I was like, I don't know. This kind of light bulb went off for, like, 20, 25.

I'm like, I think this might be my niche. I'm not even looking for it. It's finding me.

Matt Gilhooly
00:56:39

You. You aren't driving.

Jackie Otero
00:56:40

I know. And so I'm going back to the rehab center next week to have this meeting and talk about how I can help them there.

And they were even talking about how they want to start this alumni program of family members who have been through the program, and they can help talk to people who are there now going through the same thing. And I'm like, I think that might be the perfect place for me to be sharing some of this and talk to some of these people.

So the universe is a weird place. Like, I'm not a religious person, but I do believe in, like, the universe kind of sending you places. And it feels like that's happening right now.

Matt Gilhooly
00:57:14

Yeah. And none of it, in my opinion, would be happening had you not experienced the things that you experienced.

Jackie Otero
00:57:21

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly
00:57:22

You know, you might have, you know, in that sliding doors version, say your ex husband didn't have the addiction. You would have kept going in your journey. Maybe same career journey, dissolution of that job. Now where does that Jackie go? You know?

And so it's like all these roads bringing you to maybe, like you said, this purpose kind of feeling of like, maybe this is what I need to do. This is what I'm called to do. And I. I love that for you, despite the hardness of the entire journey.

But I know in my own experience losing my mom at an early age. Like, I wouldn't be this Matt. We wouldn't be having this conversation had that not happened.

And so I have to look back at the things that happened because of it with a weird gratefulness of, you know, how I've moved through life in that way.

Jackie Otero
00:58:14

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly
00:58:15

So I like to kind of wrap up these conversations with the question, you know, and I'm wondering if, like, 2025, Jackie, if knowing where you are about to have that meeting in the rehab center, all these things, if you could go back to that Jackie that walked in the house and it was really eerily quiet and you were kind of enjoying it, but then really concerned. Is there anything you want to tell her about the next part of her journey?

Jackie Otero
00:58:40

Oh, I would say buckle up. This is going to be a rough road, but you're going to make it out, and you're going to be fine, and your kids are going to be fine. It'll work out.

Because being in the middle of all that uncertainty, it's just like you don't know where you're going to end up or what's going to happen in the next day. So I think, looking back on it now, I just want to give her a hug and be like, you're going to make it out of this. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly
00:59:09

And to be fair, I think no matter the story that I hear on the Life Shift podcast, it's like, everyone will tell that younger version that it's going to be okay, which, to me, sure, common, but it shows us the resilience that we have. Like, the things that we, in the moment are like, I'm never going to survive this. Like, this is insurmountable.

And then we get past it and we're like, okay, I did that, you know, and I'm okay. Or I'm better because of it and all these things that come from it. So, you know, I agree. I.

I knew you would always be okay, but I didn't know all these things were happening when you were just kicking butt at work still at the same time. So good on you for that. But I'm super proud of you for sharing your story and.

And opening yourself up to do the things that you're doing now, because I think you're making, dare I say, far bigger impact in the. In the work that you're doing now as a mediator than some of the things you did in the past. Yeah, that sounds really bad, but you know what I mean.

Jackie Otero
01:00:09

No, I really appreciate that. It feels really personal and it feels really purpose driven. Like I had a mediation this morning and I feel a high out of it.

Like when I, when I finish and I help settle things for people and relatively keep the peace and help people do that, it just feels really good. It feels like such a tangible accomplishment. And I think the day to day work, you don't always feel that. It doesn't feel so personally connected.

It's just kind of you're doing your job and you're doing your tasks. So this just feels really personal.

Matt Gilhooly
01:00:43

Yeah, I love it.

It, it has the peace of heart, but it also allows you to still be a problem solver, a fixer, a things that you're really good at, you know, tactical things that you put into the world. So if people want to like learn about your business or I think it's right just in Florida for now what you can do. But people want to hear about it.

Jackie Otero
01:01:01

So if you're in the state of Florida, I can help you in any way part of the state. I do all my mediations on Zoom.

So I'm totally virtual and I am on social media Acquie mediator and I do post a lot of informational videos about mediation and about the process and I share little tidbits about what I've learned, but also just how to get people in the right mindset to have a healthy divorce, if that exists. You know, just helping people divorce better. Yeah, exactly. Like it doesn't have to destroy you.

It can be a peaceful process and you can stay out of court and you can stay out of chaos. So my business is Quarter tone mediation.

The website is qt mediation.com but all my social media is @jackieomediator and then you can always link out from there. And anybody's welcome to reach out to me through social media or on my website. And I do free consultations so I'm always happy to chat with people.

The wild thing is, you know, these 15 minute free consultations, I do, man, I get people's life story in 15 minutes.

Matt Gilhooly
01:02:03

Yeah. You know, here on the life shift we like to stretch it out.

No, I think we'll, we'll share all the links so people can access you pretty easily in the show notes. And I encourage others that are listening.

And I don't know if Jackie wants this, but I encourage you if something that Jackie said resonates with something you're going through, I'm sure she'd love to hear it secretly because, you know, it's nice when we're going through really hard moments to know that we're not the only ones going through it and that other people feel very similarly or they got through it okay. Your story is an example of getting through and thriving in different ways.

So I encourage people to reach out to you and hopefully that's okay with you.

Jackie Otero
01:02:40

Yep, I love it. Thanks Matt.

Matt Gilhooly
01:02:43

Thank you, my friend, for being my first friend on the podcast.

Since way back when, at the beginning, it's been really a pleasure to listen to your story, ask you the questions that maybe would be weird when we're sitting at Chili's having a burger or whatever we have at Chili's. So thank you for being a part of this.

Jackie Otero
01:02:59

Thanks Matt. I appreciate you.

Matt Gilhooly
01:03:01

If you are listening and something that Jackie said resonates with you or you think someone in your life might need to hear Jackie's story, please share this episode with them. Ratings and reviews on Apple podcasts would be great. Spotify, I don't know. All those things are really fun.

But I'm going to say goodbye now because I don't know what else to say. And I will be back next week with a brand new episode of the Life Shift podcast. Thanks again Jackie.

For more information please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com.