Transforming Negative Habits into Personal Growth: The Empowering Benefits of Journaling | Kristy Olinger

Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Life Shift podcast. I am here with Kristy. Hey, Kristy. Hey, Matt, how are you today? I'm nervous. You're nervous and you're a podcaster, you shouldn't be nervous. 

I it's just so different on the other side of the mic, I know, you know that and, and to be honest and I don't know if this happens to you. You have a podcast, you co-host with a former guest of the Life Shift podcast called The Opposite of Small Talk, which I was also a guest on which was lovely. But as a podcaster, I still get nervous before I record an episode with someone. Has that happened to you? Yes, I do it sometimes more than others, I would imagine for you, people's life stories are pretty, I, I'm sure you feel because I know you that you need to take a level of care with people's life stories. If someone's coming on and they're promoting their book on the opposite of small talk, it's a little less personal. 

I feel a little more comfortable and less nervous. But yes, there's always a certain element of nerves. I, I like it now. I think I embrace it. I was writing out what my preshow rituals are because I have dogs and I have to put on like white noise in the hallway and kick the dogs out and turn the fan off and do all these extra things. And so I think that helps me kind of calm my nerves in a, in a weird way. But anyway, this is not about how we feel as podcasters, but you are a podcaster and maybe you could just share a little bit about what the opposite of small talk is all about and what you do with your co-host Danielle on that show just before we get into your story. Yeah, that's great. So, the opposite of small talk is a podcast for curious people who know that there's no one right answer to live your best life. So we explore a really wide variety of topics and the idea is just to expose listeners to things that they may not have thought of before to incorporate those goes into their lives. So we have absolutely loved it and we have a couple of themes that, uh, that keep coming up for us. 

Uh, connection, reflection, and social justice are sort of the three big categories that we tend to gravitate to from a topic perspective. How long have you been doing that now? Since 2019 2019, the before times, the before times we're about to hit our 100th episode. Congratulations. Thank you. That's awesome. And, you know, I've, I was lucky enough to be a part of the opposite of small talk and talk about my journey with the life shift podcast and helping to share stories and the impact that, that stories have one on the person telling it. Right. There's, there's some kind of power that comes with telling our own stories, but also creating a space that other people can hear that they're not the only ones going through whatever circumstances they're going through. And so that was such a, a great experience to be on your show. And what's funny is you asked me on the show a question that still sticks with me and you asked me, how do you or what do you do to get your guests to be vulnerable? And I was stumped. I was like, what do I do? And so thank you for that question because I continually think about what am I doing? Am I doing the right things? Am I asking the right questions? Am I putting forth the right energy to create that space? And so that was a really great moment when I think sometimes we don't reflect on the things that we do or why we do them. And so you asking that question forced that reflection in me. So thank you for that question. 

That's gonna dovetail nicely into our conversation later. Well, see I didn't even plant that and that's just how podcasting goes So, uh, as we, as, as everyone knows, as they listen to the life shift podcast, I like for people to kind of give us what their lives were like before a specific pivotal moment. And we were kind of going back and forth a little bit and you were, you were kind of thinking, let me dig a little deeper and let me figure out what that moment is in my life. So before you share what that moment is, maybe you can tell us kind of what your life was like leading up to this, this particular moment that pushed you in a different direction. Yeah. So I grew up in the suburbs of Philadelphia where I happened to live today still with my two parents and two siblings. And I had a very well adjusted and happy home and life. 

I was a pretty good student, played sports and my life followed a very expected and predictable path. I went to college. I started a career in banking. I met my husband and got married. We bought a house together in my hometown and we had two kids and it was a happy life. 

Nothing felt wrong or missing. I it was a normal, happy, well adjusted life. Well, what's interesting? I like how you said that, like it's very normal, adjusted happy life. And I've, I bring this up to a lot of people that what you describe is kind of what I felt was society's checklist for people of that grew up in the eighties and nineties maybe earlier. I'm not sure. But people of my generation growing up in the eighties and nineties just felt like society or someone told us these are, this is the order you need to do things in order to have a good life. 

You have to do high school and you need to go to a good college and you need to get a good job and you need to get married, then you need to have kids. You need to do all these things. Did you feel a societal pressure to do all that or did you? Was it just like a natural occurrence? And that's kind of how life was happening for you? I am 100% confident that there were mental models that I was following that was planted in everything around me that was driving my decision making for sure. Do you feel that was there any time during that period where you wanted to kind of veer off that track or no? And, and do you think it was not a want but a what I'm trying to ask is did up here or in your heart? Did you want to do anything different? But you felt like you couldn't? OK. No, like I didn't feel pressure to live this life. 

I don't think I decided it though myself. Ok? And, and so why like why banking, why did like what drew you, you know what I'm saying? Like I always wanted to be a banker. I don't know. Did you play Monopoly a lot as a child? And you were just the banker? 

No, I, I did not go to school to study, to be a banker. As, as a matter of fact, uh, I, I, I spent 20 years working in credit card services, uh, only to realize that, like, I don't really love the numbers and I like people more and now I work in hr so I, you know, take that for whatever it's worth they were who was hiring when I graduated. And I knew people who worked at this big company that was nearby. That that was how that decision happened. It was the opportunity that was in front of me. It wasn't something that I was specifically pursuing, right? Were you, do you feel that you were allowed to dream or not allowed? 

Maybe allowed is not the right word. Do you feel that you're, you were? I don't know, I felt in high school for me. I felt that I wasn't, I was never allowed to dream or I had dreams, but it was like those are dreams. You can't actually do those things. 

You have to go, go work for a bank, you know, you have to go do whatever, whatever opportunity is there, you need to take it. Not, I want to go work for MTV, I should try to get there somehow, did you have any kind of like feeling where, like you felt like you were allowed to dream about something or was it more kind of like? Yeah, I, I don't, I don't think crea creativity wasn't necessarily promoted as a career path so it was supported. I played the piano. I was always a very creative person, arts and crafts, all of those kinds of things. But that was never something that would be promoted as a viable way to spend your life. 

I think the other thing I would share just, you know, being a woman, I grew up in a household where my mom did not work and my dad worked a lot. And so in a way, I was carving my own path because I knew from the get go that I was gonna have a career and a big career. And that was never a question in my mind, even though that wasn't the model I was shown like I knew that that was going to be what I wanted in my life. Yeah. So that maybe there was a little bit of a, like a subconscious bucking the system or like, I don't want to as much as I love my mother and what she does or maybe not, but as much as I appreciate this circumstance that my mother uh is afforded. 

I don't want that. So maybe there was a little bit of like, oh, well, I'm, I gotta be more independent in some way maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's fair. I think it's fair. 

I think it's interesting too because, you know, I, I've so many episodes I talked to people about this weird societal checklist that I know didn't exist anywhere. It just felt like I was, I was existed everywhere. Matt. Like literally every movie, every book, every interaction you have with people is where it exists. Yeah. And, but it's weird because I don't think my family ever like, well, they never, my family never said it out loud that this is what is expected of you and you must go do this. It was just like I put that on myself and a lot of that probably has to do with my childhood trauma in avoiding upsetting someone or going against the grain if you will. And so, you know, maybe that is a little bit of that but you know, good for you for enjoying the ride. 

That was that checklist at least until the point that you've explained so far. So, you know, did you just continue on that list? Like what comes after? OK, I have I got married, you know, I bought a house. What comes after that for you in this, in this checklist? Your your life shift moment happens really? So like what was building up to up to that? 

I mean, I was, I was living the checklist life and enjoying it and I was, I was, I was happy but something was maybe bubbling under. What do you, what do you got? All right at that moment. All right, here's what I got. So I was 37 years old and I read a book called Conquer Worry. And this was a book about how to manage anxiety and stress. And I'm not a particularly anxious person, but it just so happened that my brother wrote the book. And so I was being a good sister in reading this book. And the concept of the book is that it gives you a set of what they call protocols. 

I think maybe 36 40 different protocols that you can do to help manage the stress in your life. And the idea is that you pick 34 of them and you try them for a period of 30 days and observe how it impacts your feelings of stress and anxiety in your life. And I came across, I, I decided, OK, well, I'm, I'm a good sister. I'm not only going to read the book, I'm actually gonna do these protocols for 30 days and report back to him and, and tell him how, what I think of his book and process and the impact that he's making on the world. And so I come across this protocol that says, establish a consistent bedtime. 

Now, Matt, let me describe for you what my bedtime routine was in that moment. I'm 37 years old. I've got a seven year old and a four year old. And so my practice was after dinner. I counted the minutes until both my kids and my husband would be in bed and then I would get on the couch and I would get cheese and crackers and, and Matt. It wasn't even good cheese. It was like Deli American single slices of cheese that I would break up and put on Triscuits. And I would watch. Yes. Oh, yeah. At least it wasn't craft. Yeah. OK. Step above and I would watch terrible TV. 

For hours, like reruns of shows. I'd seen a million times and B movies that weren't even that good the first time. And I would go to bed at like two o'clock, 2 30. And I didn't learn until years later that this is actually something that commonly happens to parents of young Children. And it has an awesome name. It's called Revenge Bedtime Procrastination. And it's this idea that when you don't have control over your waking hours and if any listeners have young kids, you know that you don't have control over your waking hours when they're awake, you try to take some of that control back by staying up late and, and being able to spend time the way you want to like a little rebellion if you will for yourself. Although it's not really serving you that well. 

No, not at all. I, like, I physically felt terrible because I still had to get up and go to work the next day. And plus I ate a pound of cheese the night before. So it just wasn't like the best scenario. So I'm reading this book and, and I see establish a consistent bedtime and I realized that if I went to bed early enough, I could actually flip it and wake up before the kids got up and have that alone time that I wanted without eating a pound of cheese and watching terrible TV. And one of the other protocols was journaling. And so I experienced what Gretchen Rubin from her book better than before calls a lightning bulb. So it so habit change, right? 

There's all these different strategies for habit change in that moment, I changed my habit overnight. And every weekday since that date, I wake up at 5 15 in the morning and I spend time journaling and drinking coffee and having my alone time that I craved. Um But without the cheese hangover and, you know, feeling too tired for the day. So that was my life shift moment. Um But what it inspired the sort of the downfall, not the downfall, the avalanche effect from that really came from the journaling, right? Because now instead of mind hours of mindless TV, I was actually reflecting on who I am, what I want and getting myself off of autopilot. I think it's so funny how you picked up on the checklist thing, right? And I was living a life on autopilot. 

I was doing the next thing that was in front of me because that's what I was supposed to do. And it didn't feel wrong like it was, I'm happy with a lot of the choices that I made. But I realized like, is, is there more right? Is it serving me well? And I think that if we look at that procrastination or what was it? 

Revenge, revenge, bedtime procrastination. So if we look at that revenge, bedtime procrastination, it's almost like your subconscious was like, you know, fighting this. Like, I don't want to do everything that I'm supposed to do in some way. I just wanna like veg out eat the things that I shouldn't be eating, watch the crap that they shouldn't be watching. Just like I just want to sit in a pile on the couch and I think we can all relate to this. Like every, every so often we all need our alone time. 

We all need just that moment to just be and do whatever without any kind of judgment. And I think for me, I'll do the same thing. I'll take a Saturday. I don't do it every day, but I'll take a Saturday and just sit there and go like, I'm not gonna look at my computer, I'm not gonna look at any kind of work I need to do. I'm not gonna work on the podcast. I'm gonna watch the worst movie series. 

I've ever seen in my life, all five of them, whatever that may be because I just want to and I need to and it's just, it is. And so, and I think that's me going against kind of like the grain. So I'm wondering, you know, maybe that was what you were doing. But, but what I would say, Matt is I encourage that, right? The intentional act of rest or doing what you want to do. I don't think I was doing specifically what I wanted to do. Like the thing that I wanted was the alone time was the time with me. 

I didn't necessarily want the TV. And the cheese that was kind of the byproduct of the circumstance. Um So, so and that's where I think understanding how habits are made and broken and being intentional about choosing your habits is such an amazing skill to learn because so much of what we do is just driven by our routines and not necessarily chosen routines. So if you can investigate those and then create the environment that you want to do. The habits that you want in your life, that's life changing. What do you think of? What do you think of trying to phrase this? Why that moment? Like what was special about how like I feel like sometimes we could read things, we can look at things but until it hits at that right moment, was there something happening around that time or space? In which you read this and then you realize, hey, what am I doing? And then I can take ownership of this to flip it around. Was there, was there anything that was like, why then? Well, so there is a common phenomenon in which people wake up about midlife to the fact that they have one life, right? 

We tend to call it a midlife crisis. I like to call it a midlife awakening. But I do believe that many of us have a moment in our lives around this age where you recognize that is this it like what is there more? And, and I was right in that range. And so I, I, I think that and then the combination of this intellectual exercise to recognize I knew I wasn't feeling physically well. I, I knew I had a lack of sleep and poor eating habits that were making me physically not feel well in my body. And so reading that book and recognizing that the thing that I really wanted was just time alone away from these people that I love so much. And so I think that combination of recognizing those things that I needed and then doing the math to figure out, oh, I can have what I need if I just make this small change. It sold me in an instant on it. 

I mean, really we should just credit this to you being a good family member and sister for reading a book that your brother wrote because that's, that's big in itself because I think, you know, as a creator myself and you probably can realize this, like, most of the people, like, in our closest circle, they don't care about some of the things we do. Right. And it's, it's not a bad thing. It just doesn't relate to them or it's just like it's there, it's part of what you do or they just don't want to hear or read it just in case it's not good. Right? But you read your brother's stuff, like, were you all, are you, did you do that out because you really cared or did you do that out of like obligation? And I don't want to put you on the spot here, but you generally, you said nothing was you didn't have stress or worry. 

Well, so this was a period before I had done a lot of networking with different entrepreneurs and authors and podcasters. And so my brother, for my brother to write a book, felt like a really big deal. Um And so, and, and he actually, he happens to be a podcaster and he has been podcasting since like the early two thousands. So he's like O G podcaster, but his topic is um financial advisors are his target and I have no interest again, back to the banking thing. Like, maybe that's a career limiting move. But like, I, you know, I don't know, I'm never going to listen to a podcast about financial advisor. Um So I did so I didn't consume any of his podcasts. And so here I, I, I, I really believe in his mission like for him to, he told his personal story in that book and that is not typical of him. And so for him to be vulnerable in that way and share his story, I hadn't even heard his story um in depth. So part of it was wanting to like learned from reading about him. But then I also just really believed in his mission of bringing mental health into a more public place and trying to help people and have an impact. So I, I think all of those things combined. Uh It definitely wasn't out of obligation um solely and it's a good book and it's a book that I think any I've given it as gifts, I've actually given it as gifts to new mothers often. Um because it's consumable in a way that there's just they're just these little bites of ideas to try. Uh Obviously, you can see simple, have a, have a consistent bedtime. 

That's a pretty simple practice. It's, you know, a bunch of ideas like that for people to try and, and reduce the stress in their life. But to your point, it's a, it's on paper. It sounds simple. But if your habit is, as you describe, it could be hard, right? It could be hard to implement that overnight in the way that you did. 

What was the, you said that it kind of happened overnight and you really just shifted everything. What was the first thing that you really noticed that changed about you as a person by, by doing this new go to bed at a normal time at a reasonable time, wake up early and have your alone time with journaling before the kids woke up. So the first and very immediate effect was I felt physically much better. So again, I was going to bed at two o'clock regularly, not, not every night, but a lot of nights and then trying to wake up at 6 30 or seven and get ready and go to work. And that's just not anywhere close to enough sleep and then add on all the junk food. Like I physically felt much, much better immediately. But then the longer term effect. And the other piece of the story here is just the value of journaling a daily journaling practice. 

I like I can't, you can't underestimate like we don't learn from our experience, we learn from reflecting on our experience. And that's a quote by John Dewey, but it's, it's true like you're living this life and if it's unexamined, then you can't learn and improve in any way from it. And so over time. So here, here's sort of the outcome and what happened from all of that. So at, at that time, I was in my banking job. 

I had my two kids, all the, all the things I hadn't made my own choice on which jobs to take. At that point. People, it was one of those things where I performed well in my job and people would tap me and say, come work over here and I would, I hadn't made my own decision. So that was the very first thing I did. Um And I was able to secure a, a banking job that I liked. And then I started to realize. So I had been teaching workshops on communication and public speaking for years. And I had been doing it for free for local nonprofits or inside the companies where I worked. And I realized, you know, what, like, why wouldn't I do this as a business so that I have something that I can retire to? Um One of the things I was reflecting on is my dad, dad was a workaholic and was forced into retirement at age 62. 

That was the requirement of his company. And so like, he was kind of like 62 with no hobbies, no interests, no, nothing going on. And I don't ever want to retire, but I don't want to work a, you know, stressful, full time banking job until I'm 80. But I'll go do workshops on communication until I'm 80 for sure. So that was a huge change that I made starting a business and starting a podcast that all came from journaling. What does your journal practice look like? 

I think that some people, I mean, I'm sure it's different for a lot of people. But what is your specific journaling process or what did it look like to begin with? And how has it evolved over, over this time? So it, I'm definitely always open to evolving it. And so I'm not married to any one way of doing things. So I'll put that out there. And so for anyone thinking about it, don't overthink it, just grab a notebook and write whatever's on your mind. 

My practice today, I start with um I am statements like affirming the kind of person that I want to be in the world. So as an example, I am working on being a more empathetic human. It is not something that comes naturally to me. And so one of my, I am statements that I write every morning is I am a good listener and I am empathetic. Um So I, I think that's uh sort of the first. So I've got maybe three or four. 

I am statements that I do and then I will do a gratitude, something that's happened in the last 24 hours, something very specific. Just a one liner and then I write and I oftentimes will start with kind of recounting either what happened the day before or what's happening today. I can get a little bit um I don't know like transactional about it, which is not great. But when I have a nugget of a feeling, that's when I try to follow a, why am I feeling that way? And sometimes I'll, uh, you know, unpack that a little bit and then, so that's kind of like the everyday thing. And then every once in a while I'll do like a vision casting couple pages where I'll think about what do I want my life to look like in five or 10 years? 

I don't set goals out that far. Five in 10 years. That's crazy to me. But I'll do vision casting where I'll like describe all these different things that, that I would want my life to look at in like really big detail every once in a while. So vision casting is one and then the last one that I'll do every once in a while is gold mining um or gold prospecting, which is where you think of a problem. 

This actually comes from the Conquer Rory book as well. It's not his practice. It comes from maybe Earl Nightingale. And the idea is that you think of a problem and then you base, it's basically like a self brainstorm where you think of all the potential solutions for a problem that you're having in your life. 

I like that you mentioned transactional because someone like me, I'm very, I like a process. I like step by step. That checklist was super helpful in my life, you know, like, at least getting me out of my teens and into like the workforce and those kind of things that checklist was very helpful, even though there wasn't one that I was actually checking off. And so the reason I asked that question and, and I like that you said transactional is because I think some people are fearful of journaling because they don't know how to do it. Right. They don't know if there's a right way to do it. How long should this section be? How many sections should there be? All those questions come up in my mind? Were you someone when you start when you did that for the first time? Was it, was it comfortable? Was it weird? Was it hard for you as someone that's more transactional to just start into journaling? Yeah. So I think initially my journaling was more of a diary. I don't maybe I don't know if that's the right word to run, right? It was an accounting of events without necessarily a lot of emotion or depth. So when I think to, so I was a big journal growing up like in high school and middle school, I journaled and those were very much a diary, an accounting of what happened on this day. 

My view is just start, start before you're ready and just do whatever comes naturally and and things will ha there's magic that happens when you take the words that are in your brain and you put them on the page. And so I think it's OK to, um, to start from a very transactional place to get yourself in the habit of doing it and then just continue to, to think about taking it elsewhere. There's a book called The Artist's Way that promotes a um process that's called Morning Pages where you write three pages of notes. And the idea is just literally, you're dumping everything out of your brain and people will talk about writing their grocery lists like it does not matter what it is, just whatever it is that's in your brain. And the idea is to kind of like get all of that out because so many of our thoughts are negative and they're the same thoughts every day and just get it all out of you so that you can let in the creativity that you have in your, in yourself. Um One other tip though for people and we'll have to check and see if it's still there. 

There is a website called 850 words where you can do that electronically and it'll give you like a counter for like you've done it every day. So some people find that kind of thing helpful to have that accountability of like, oh, did I do my pages today? So that's a online version of the same thing. But I feel very strongly that the physical act of writing is where the magic happens. Typing is not the same thing. 

It's not, it's not for you. It could be for, you know, other people, however, whatever works. Do you, do you do it religiously every day or is it something that you try to do a majority of the time? And if it doesn't happen, it's not like you're in trouble with yourself. 

I would say the times that I miss would be when I'm traveling for work or, or fun. I will often not bring the journal and that's really the only days I miss. Have you ever gone back and read some of your earlier stuff? No, I, I should, I really should. No, I, I don't think it's a rule, you know, it's funny. So when I get to the end of a journal, I do leaf back through and at the back of the journal, I, I put the dates of some of the more meaningful things that I wrote about. So I don't go back and read, like I don't read ones from years ago, but if I were to ever pick up one of my old journals or if my kids ever pick up one of my old journals, they would be able to look at the back panel and, and see, ok, everything else is just whatever, boring. 

You know, mom's going to the gym today. Mom's recording a podcast today. But, oh, look, here was one about something important and what she was thinking about. That's so interesting. Would you go back to read that? Like that first journal? 

I, I had the thought, uh actually in preparation for this podcast, I was thinking I should go find the ones that I started doing in that life shift moment. I didn't get a chance to dig it up because I'm not quite sure where they are, but that would be really interesting to see what they were like in that moment. Well, and talk about a reflection, it's like an inception moment. It's like a reflection upon a reflection that you're reflecting on is that is like, it could be really interesting. I think sometimes we don't realize how far we we come and I think journaling will help, right? Because you're examining or reflecting on more immediate moments. In most cases, I'm imagining more in like the last week or, but to then take it a step further and look back a year ago and reflect on where your mind and your headspace was. Then we don't realize how far we've come until we take the time to look back. And so we're only kind of sitting in this, this time period. It could be a really interesting experiment for you to, to see what's different about you just as a human because seeing the human changes are a lot harder as well, right? We can, we grew up in a time period where you could mark your successes by promotions, salaries, house marriage, you know, like those you could see them, right? And you knew you've hit the milestone, you've hit the next mark. But this is interesting as a developing human, how far have you come? Like you mentioned, you want to be a more empathetic human being, maybe looking back, you might find that you are far more empathetic than you were when you first started. Yeah. Well, so what's interesting is that my I AM statements have changed over time. And so looking back to see when I thought to add a new I AM statement is a really interesting point in time as well. Like when did I realize that that was something that I wanted to be? Are, are your journaling, are all of your journaling experiences all focused or attempting to be all positive? Or is there a space within the journal to dump out that negative feelings and reflect on those as well? It is a lot of dumping out the negative feelings and reflecting for sure because I feel like that there's something about journaling that I think some people have maybe a chip on their shoulder about that it feel or maybe it's not journaling, maybe it's more like affirmations and things along those lines that people feel very like woo woo about if you will and I can see people that are more type a like me thinking? OK. Well, my journal must only be all this positive affirmation and like what if someone sees it they need to see, look at all the amazing things I'm doing. So I found a journal of my mother's and she was fine with us taking a read through it and it was written in like super flowery 100% positive language. It was reading like she was expecting someone to read it someday. 

That is not how I'm writing. Um, I don't necessarily worry about others reading it someday. Um, but the, I mean, they could see. So, I mean, my husband would see things that are negative for sure. Um And, and it's ok, it's how I was feeling at that moment. And I think that's the naming your feelings is part of the value of the activity because sometimes you don't realize how you're feeling or thinking about something until you put it out on a page. 

So, I don't know. I, I, I think you have to be, it's, if there's one place to be real with yourself, it's in your own personal journal. Yeah, it's so interesting how journaling has, has changed kind of the trajectory of your life and, you know, obviously a good bed time and no cheese and crackers before bed. I hope you have cheese and crackers every once in a while, but for sure. And I Sprinkle in some better cheese too. Um Hey, just one other thing to plant a seed with folks. 

Um, is the idea of journaling about work oftentimes when we journal, we're thinking about personal reflections and what's happening in our personal life. But there's so much value to doing a retrospective about that difficult conversation you were gonna have. And how did that go? And how could it go better next time or that meeting or that big decision that was made or the political stuff that's going on at work working that through in a journal is very valuable. And as a matter of fact, I have some journal prompts on my website. Um If you go to Kristy Olinger dot com, there's a section for resources for journal prompts for work because there's so much to learn from, reflecting from every aspect of our lives, you know, and that's interesting that you brought that up because I would imagine that if I were to journal for work, I mean, if I were to journal, most of it would be attached to work and not in a positive way. And so, well, not all negative, but in a sense that it's interesting that I would imagine that many people of our generation are very attached to career, their career is their life. When you go to a networking event, it's who are you? And what do you do? And that's who you are, right? 

And, and we're trying to get away from that. I feel like kind of becoming more human, like and less attached to like whatever position we have in a job. But I would imagine that if I were to journal, which I don't yet. At this point in my life I would talk about work. So it's interesting that you brought that up because I guess there are people that would only just talk about whatever is happening behind closed doors and, and things like that. 

I, I think so. I, I think as an entrepreneur, you may be in a more unique position than most in terms of how you think. Well, I wouldn't talk, I mean, I would talk only nice things about the podcast, but my real job, my day to day job is in higher education and there's a lot of things that bother me about the education system now and how certain things in the certain ways that we have to do things for the current generation. It's, it's a little bit challenging and so I would probably journal a lot about that, which would probably help me in the long run. Honestly, I think there's uh there's some value in that. Uh But that was interesting that you brought that up. Why do you think you haven't had a journaling practice or haven't thought to journal? 

I think that what I would do in journaling is what I do when I just write from my gut. And so I do that pretty regularly and I feel like I process, like, if I'm having a bad day, I write that out and then I share it publicly for the entire world to see how messed up that day is or how great that day is or whatever that may be. And so I think part of the value that I would get from journaling comes a little bit out of those moments. And then these conversations on the podcast also allow me to reflect more. I actually got really teared up the other day when I was talking to someone because I was reflecting in the moment of how this experience has served the younger version of me that's still inside trying to still maneuver the trauma and the value in that. But I haven't physically done it. 

I thought about it a lot, but I haven't done it. I don't know why. So you, so you say you're writing from your gut and you're publishing it on a blog wherever it's journaling. Yeah, but I, I don't have a practice. I should say you don't have a practice. So you're not, you're not journaling the mundane and all of the negative thoughts in a rambling way that nobody would want to read you uh writing and putting it out in the world. 

I am, but I'm also not crafting it. I don't believe that I'm intentionally crafting it. I should say it's uh I used to think to kind of like what you said about your mother's journals and that they're flowery and what other people want to hear or you have to craft it in a way that you don't offend or, you know, whatever that may be. And I feel that I'm at a point in this journey. And I think part of it's because of the life shift podcast, part of it is because I've just processed a lot of my, my life so far and reflected on that, even in, you know, having the conversation with you and Danielle and just reflecting on like, how do I create a space like that? I think that has allowed me to feel comfortable putting out something that back in the day, my dad would be like, you can't tell people that like, you can't and not be, it was just the product of the times. It wasn't like he was like that, but it was just like those are things you don't share those things, stay in here or on a journal paper. And for me, because I've seen the value of sharing story and knowing what it feels like to feel very alone in that experience by putting it out there publicly. 

Maybe someone's gonna see it, maybe someone's gonna go. I'm not the only one feeling that way. It's OK. You know, I'm normal kind of feeling. 

So, you know, I think I do quote unquote journal but not in a traditional way. I don't have a journal. I don't write at a particular time. Every, I don't wake up at 5 15. Although my oldest dog likes to wake me up at six o'clock every day So I kind of understand but, you know, I think there's, there's something to be said about building a, a positive habit in which you've done you've taken, you know, in this is perfectly happy, fine version of your life before needing your own space. 

You've taken what was not serving you in the most healthy of ways, flipped. It allowed yourself the same time, but then made it productive in a way that serves you. Is that, am I see? That, that's exactly right. Where do you think you would be if you had not read that book? Do you think you would have ever adjusted to switching it around? I guess, at some point? 

Well, I don't know if I would have, I don't know what would have happened with that specific habit. I mean, the kids are older now. They're 13 and 10 and they're very self-sufficient and want to hang out with me a lot less. So I'm probably feeling less of a need to take. I have a lot of control in my schedule in my life now. So that sort of pressure went away. 

I think the, the bigger question of what I would have gotten to where I am in my life where I'm making more conscious choices about what I'm doing, what I have started the podcast, what I have started my business. I like to think I, something would have gotten me there either way, like, hit a wall like the rest of us. I don't know. I was like, oh, but I mean, you did mention that, you know, you were in this space. I mean, did the book trigger that like, is this all there is or were you having those feelings or? Well, I wasn't necessarily having, so I have always been a self-help. Ok. I don't know, junkie. 

A lot of people. Yes, I've always been into podcasts. I've always been into reading self help books. I've always been into development, personal development and that kind of thing. So I think I would have gotten there. I would have gotten there eventually. 

I got to be honest, I, I feel like we don't emphasize enough how truly difficult parenting very young Children is like it is, you are not like you were literally surviving for the very early years of their life. And that is it like there is no space for anything other than keeping these humans alive. And I don't think people talk about that enough. It's horrible. So I don't know that it could have happened any earlier than it did because I was, you know, in that I was in the thick of it. Um But yeah, I don't think, I don't think people really know what they're getting into. There's no manual. Uh But I think that's a great point though is that I think we're getting closer to a time in which people will emphasize that more or we talk about it more and that we don't have to paint this picture that everything is perfect and sunny and roses. And I'm the best mom every single day, every single week, every year. 

You know, there, there is life that happens and things happen and we make mistakes and we learn from them and it's exhausting and, and, and, and, and, and right, like, I feel like we're getting to a place in which it's ok to admit that out loud and know that there are millions of other mothers out there that feel, or fathers that feel the same way. Yeah. I, I, so whenever I have someone in my life who is having their first child, I now tend to have, I, I try not to scare people. 

Right, because they're in it. Right. They're pregnant. Things, things are happening. Um, but I do, like, want to let them know what to expect so that they're not surprised when they get there and they're not like what is going on. Um, because it's not also because it's not forever. Right. So, like, it, it is, it's this really intense period and it's magical and wonderful and awful all at once and then you're out of it but it could be longer. I mean, for some, it could be, I was talking to someone the other day and she was talking about how, when someone has a, a child, she's always, she always goes to the mother and, or the father, how are you? Your baby's cute and all but like, how are you? Because it's really hard, you're not sleeping, you're not doing this and that's ok. 

If you need me reach out, this is normal. This is what we most of us experience. It's not all beautiful all the time. And so I, I do feel like even just in conversations like this conversations that you have on your podcast conversations that are in lots of podcasts, people are putting what I call the messy, dirty, gross parts of their lives out there on purpose to show that we're human and, and that when you're not alone in how you're feeling, I had a guest on very early in the podcast when I was still trying to figure things out. And she, I don't know if she quoted this, but she said your mess is your message and that really stuck with me because for so long, I felt like I had to like, hide certain things or how I felt or if I was depressed, I had to hide that. But all of that makes me a much more interesting human if I can share that out loud. And I've learned so much from the really hard parts of my life that I wouldn't trade. And so I love the idea of the mess being your message. Does any of that resonate with you? 

Well, it does and it makes you relatable and likable. So I talk about this in public speaking. A lot people put a lot of emphasis on removing filler words from your speech. But if you listen to the public speakers that you really admire, you will often hear filler words, but you don't notice them because you're enthralled in the message and also it makes them human. Nobody wants to follow a robot. Amy Cuddy has one of the most popular TED talks ever. And within the first five seconds, she uses two filler words. 

People relate to people who are not perfect. I feel targeted right now by that. Uh We were talking before recording that I remove most of the filler words. So if you listen to this podcast, I have not, I have no word. Heard one. I heard one. Uh I, I remove the ums and some of those in just the audio only experience in the video and in live speaking, I think there's more happening. 

There's more of that human experience. There's more not distractions. But you know what I mean in that sense that you're not really paying attention to that, in my opinion, sometimes when it's right in your ear and that's all you might hear. Someone like me. That's all I hear. But, but you're right human like we're not perfect in our lives. 

If, if, if someone tells me that everything has been beautiful and wonderful in their lives, I question that right because I'm like, wow, either. Wow, great for you. Like or I'm sorry, because you haven't learned a lot of things that other people that have gone through really tough times have. And so it's really interesting and I think that we're leaning more into that and I think that, you know, your point about emphasizing the difficulties of just being a new mother or being a mother of young Children to a certain time period. I think more people are talking about it. I think that we're connecting on a deeper level more than we have. 

I mean, we're not there yet that sample bias because you host a podcast where you host very real conversations. I mean, I think there is some sample bias in there in, in that this is the opportunity that I get to have. But at the same time, more and more people reach out to me and then we record and I've even had people that come on and they want to tell me about X Y Z event and they'll come on and be like, hey, I actually want to share something. I've never told anyone before and you're like, now's the time, let's do this because this, the mess is your message. 

This is there is someone out there. You are not the only person most likely to ever go through something, you know, and there's someone out there that might feel like they are. And if you can hear someone else, we've done our job. But, you know, I think you're evolving as a, as a human through journaling. Would you agree? Oh, one 100% in podcasting and podcasting? Yeah. Do you think that the journaling has gotten? Do you think that the journaling has made you a more empathetic person because you're showing compassion to yourself as well through that reflection? 

I think I have a lot to learn about emotion and about different perspectives. So I think the journaling can help me process how I'm thinking about things. But when I think about how I'm going to become a more empathetic person, I need to do a better job of feeling a full range of feelings in order to be able to recognize and empathize with others. So that's my current work task. And I don't think I can do that from journaling alone. Um But I think it does play a part in that because you're forcing for lack of a better word, you know, you're forcing reflection on yourself, right? And so if you experience a moment and you didn't handle it in the way that you wanted to or, you know, or you didn't evoke a, it didn't evoke a certain emotion. Maybe you might take that time in the, the next day's journal to reflect on that and why? Yeah, you know, why didn't I feel that way? 

That's, it's so interesting and I am, I am compelled to start a more regular practice. I don't think I could commit to a day a day to day journaling practice. Right? I mean, it sounds like you were talking about your pre podcasts ritual and your checklist of things that you do. You could find a ritual that includes a few minutes of journaling. It definitely wouldn't be a 5 15 wake up to do my journaling. Yeah. Well, and, and I will say that just happens to work for me. 

I think there's a lot of glamorization of the morning routine and I do not subscribe to that, you know, what time you work best with sleep and wake and when you're at your best. And so I don't think people should be trying to force a morning routine on themselves if they're not morning people. Yeah, I mean, I think finding that quiet time where you can actually have the time to yourself to reflect and do what will serve you best if you're going into the practice of journaling, I think that's, you know, when you find that space and for some, it might be morning, some people, it might be late nights because they don't have to wake up early in, in like you were describing if this journaling podcasting entrepreneur version of Christie could go back to the version of you eating that those cheese and crackers on the couch and staying up till two every night and feeling like crap the next day. Is there anything that you could tell her that might trigger that to start earlier. Do you think she would? 

I, I mean, I think I would have to go back earlier than that particular moment. Right. And I'd like to think that past Christie would be receptive to future Christie's insights. And I think it could be as simple as saying, choose your life. How early do you think you would go back? I, I think probably high school or college, uh, you know, would be the spot where I would, I would, I was very much a rule follower and I think it, once I got a little bit of freedom in college would probably be the time where I was, would be most receptive to the idea that I had choices in my life and I could take actions and make my own decisions about what I was doing. Yeah. I'd like to think that I could go back to an earlier version of me and listen. But I also think I need to go through all of these, these pieces to be grateful for what I have now. And I think what's important about your story is that we do have choices and we can make those choices for ourselves. In most cases, we can make those choices for ourselves. And if that is something that people listening are feeling like they're just kind of going along the normal day to day, it's very routine and they don't feel like they have a sense of, of self in a certain space then maybe kind of what you do is, is an option for them is something that could allow them time for that reflection. 

Just like when you asked me that question and it's still stuck in my head, you know, on that podcast. It's, it's, it's something that could help someone move to a place where they can make those decisions and feel comfortable making those decisions, feel confident in making those decisions. That's always the goal, man. Any time I'm sharing something that I've experienced. It's just with the hope that someone, it has a thought that sparks and resonates and it somehow I improves their life. And as a podcaster, you know, that I think we all kind of go in there is that like did the right person hear that episode to the right person that needed to hear it at that moment in time, just like you reading that book at that moment in time, I've had other guests reading that book. 

You are a badass, like just right at the right moment in their time, um in whatever time they were going through and that one sentence that stuck out to them or the consistent bedtime, you know, like that one thing was there at the right moment and you seized it. A lot of people would just read past it. Yeah. You know, and so, and that's why, you know, when Danielle and I started this podcast, the opposite of small talk, we talk, our very first episode was about originality because we were grappling with this idea that we were gonna bring a podcast in, into the world. And we're gonna talk about these topics that everybody is talking about. And what we came to realize is that just we could be talking about the exact same thing that Mel Robbins is talking about on her podcast. But for whatever reason, the way we say it might resonate differently with a different person and that makes it worthwhile 100%. 

And, and to the reason I came on your show and just the storytelling aspect of just sharing, it does something for us too. And hopefully you'll reflect back on this in your journaling tomorrow morning and it will open up your, your eyes about something that you didn't even think about as you said it as those words come out of your mouth. And then again, when it gets released, you know that there's these, these other experiences that come along. So thank you for willing to be a part of the life shift podcast and dissecting your life to find that, that moment that really changed things. 

Well, thank you for having me, Matt. It's, it's a pleasure and you certainly have a gift for making people feel comfortable. Well, thank you very much. And if anyone's interested in connecting with you or seeing those journal prompts, we'll give them the information in the show notes and they can um check them out on your website and connect with you wherever you want them to. So we'll put all that information in the show notes and take a listen to the opposite of small talk. You can start with my episode, which I'll link to in the show notes as well and then subscribe to their podcast, give them five stars a nice little review. You can do the same for me if you'd like. And until next week, we'll be back with a brand new episode of the life shift podcast.