Transforming Heartbreak into Empowerment: Revolutionizing the Dating Industry | Jillian Romero Chaves

00:00
I loved him. Like I loved him in that moment, even with all that betrayal, I was still very much in love with him. And when someone's asking you for help, right? Like my normal response to anyone that I love asking for help or seeking help is, yes, absolutely let me help you. I didn't know what to do. I was in complete freeze mode and I was just, he was shaking as he was sharing the stuff. My dog was comforting him and I was just stone cold. It was the scariest.

00:29
point in my life I've ever been and it really was. And the only thing that I could think of doing was I actually called my mom and I put her on speaker. And it was crazy that she picked up, but she did, because it was later at night when I was getting ready, and she picked up and I said, Mom, like this is what's happening. And I told her everything. And I said, Mom, I think I have to leave. Like I really think that I have to leave right now. And she said, Jillian, just go. My guest this week is Jillian Romero Chaves.

00:57
Jillian's the CEO of Clara for Daters, and she calls it an intentional dating journal. In this episode, Jillian shares a story of how she faced the pain of betrayal and the dissolution of a relationship that she truly thought would lead to marriage. We talk about the deep-seated issues of abandonment and self-worth that came from seeing her parents get divorced at an early age, and really how these factors trickled into her relationship experiences.

01:24
What makes Jillian's story really inspiring is her resilience and that determination to really forge her own path after this. Through this heartache, she found this sense of self-worth and importance in honesty both with herself and with others, especially when it comes to dating. She also shares an important lesson about the dangers of kind of forcing this narrative that doesn't align with the truth. And so you might relate to that when I talk about...

01:51
abandoning that checklist life on some of the other episodes. We'll learn about how Jillian, in her quest for a happy relationship, really acknowledged when someone wasn't right for the part she envisioned for them in their life. All of this led to Jillian creating Clara for Daters, which again is an intentional dating journal, it's an app, and you can score your dates across many different criteria. This episode reminds us that even when life throws us off course, we have the power to navigate our way back.

02:21
and wiser. Before we get to today's episode, I wanted to thank some Patreon members. As you know, I have the Patreon to help support the production costs of the show, so that includes software and hardware and just getting these stories out to the public. I want to thank Traci, Emily, and Miki for supporting two episodes every single month. It is so helpful to help cover those costs, and I just am so blessed that the three of you have chosen me to...

02:50
support. So thank you to you, my friends. If you are interested in directly supporting the show, check out patreon.com slash the life shift podcast, and you can find information there about all the different tiers and the t shirt giveaway that I do every time five more people join the Patreon. And without further ado, here is my conversation with Jillian Romero Chaves.

03:15
I'm Matt Gilhooly, and this is the Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

03:34
Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Life Shift podcast. I am here with Jillian. Hello, Jillian. Hi, thank you so much for having me today. I'm excited to get to know you through the Life Shift podcast. And I let you in on a little secret. And I think most of my listeners understand my secret now. But I don't do a lot of research on my guest because I found that when I know too much, I kind of have these preconceived notions and these questions that like,

04:03
I might get stumped if they give me the answer I'm not expecting. And so if I go in with nothing, I feel like we can have a genuine human conversation. And it feels really rewarding. And I don't know if you've ever experienced where you've been somewhere super prepared and everything went differently than you wanted it to. That's kind of how I feel. I mean, we're going to talk into it later, but dating is definitely that. Right. Sometimes you go into a date and you're like completely researched the person and Googled the crap out of them even before.

04:29
even go on a first date and that's something that you don't want to do. So it's better to like, you know, understand the basics, meet in real life, and then get a feeling for what the vibe is in person. But that's what came up right now when you just communicated how you start the podcast. I didn't even think of that. And I think that's fascinating. And I think that so many people, I don't want to say do it wrong, but do it wrong. Right. In the sense of like they they build everything up and then they get there and then everything's crushed. And it's like, well,

04:57
why don't we just show up as humans? And so I found that over 100 plus episodes now of having these conversations with people, I've really got to know people in a way that I never thought like a stranger and myself within an hour could really get to. So thank you for just wanting to be a part of this, not knowing what was gonna come out of it. So good luck. No, thank you. Again, I'm happy to be here.

05:23
Awesome, well maybe before we start, you can give us just a little bit about who you are right now at this moment that doesn't give away too much of your story. Sure, right now in this moment, which was very different six months ago, so going back to this in this moment, my name is Jillian, I am from Southern California, and I am currently a CEO of Clara for Daters, which is an intentional dating journal. And it's in this moment, I'm also single, I'm dating.

05:52
I'm looking for a committed exclusive relationship and it's a journey and it's been fun, but that's who I am and that's kind of what I'm doing right now in this moment, which is completely different than what I would have said six months ago. It's amazing to look back and we'll talk a little bit about it, but it's like, you know, like I could never have imagined, even if I bring it back to this podcast, when I started this in 2022 as a school assignment, I never could have imagined what something like this could do for me.

06:22
Like, I mean, most of these episodes are not about me, but the healing that it's provided me and hopefully people listening and hopefully the guests themselves. Yeah, looking back, you're like, if I would have told Matt that this was gonna happen, he'd be like, what? No way, you never getting on a microphone, you know? So I can understand that. Light throws you curve balls and you just have to like respond to them in a way that feels good for you. And that's what I've been doing. And it sounds like that's what you did too. And that's where we got here.

06:50
Part of your story is certainly, or it sounds like a curve ball, because I know a sentence or two about your story. And this curve ball, I think, is a common curve ball, unfortunately, a common curve ball that a lot of people experience. But I don't think a lot of people do what you did with that curve ball. So maybe before you tell us what that curve ball is, you can kind of paint the picture of who Jillian was and what life was like for you leading up to this moment that you feel really like.

07:19
put you in this new trajectory, like, I guess, six months ago or so, or maybe a little bit longer? Well, six months ago was the choice that I made to really divert, to change, to change directions. The actual pivotal moment was three years ago. Actually, December 3rd was the anniversary, so just a few days ago, of that shift or that personal thing that just occurred. But before I go into that, I would love to share who I was before, right?

07:46
So before that, I have always been such an overachiever in my life. I did great in grades. I'm the oldest child, oldest cousin in the Latino family with lots of different cousins and definitely played that role overachiever and wanted to be very successful in my school and work and everything. I went to great universities, didn't date a lot in college because I was very focused on working and studying. So like the dating that I did was kind of here or there.

08:12
And then after college, I jumped in pretty quickly into the automotive industry. And I absolutely loved it. Absolutely loved it. It was fast paced. It was challenging. And it was at a time where digital was still pretty new to automotive. So like starting websites for car dealerships and starting CRMs and looking at data as opposed to car salesmen with their book of business. It's like literally manual. I went in there at a time where, hey, this is all going to be something that we're going to start exploring.

08:41
And I loved it. I rose pretty quickly, kind of heading up digital operations and marketing, also some community relationships. And I absolutely loved it. I was thriving. I was president of a large auto center for several years being voted into that position. And I love, I, again, I can't say how much I loved it. I was thriving, traveling, all the fun stuff. During that time, I met someone. Again, I didn't have a lot of dating experience, but I met someone I fell in love. Thought he was the love of my life. And unfortunately it turned out that he wasn't.

09:09
It was tough. It was, we'd been dating for about three years. I was completely in love. He had a ring in his sock drawer, so that was coming. We had been done doing premarital counseling, because that was important to me to kind of do all those steps. COVID happened. I was home more. And obviously, I will, at that point, I was super confident in who I was, what I was doing. I had a lot of success. So I didn't, I wasn't that girl who like...

09:36
even considered that there would be something wrong with the relationship. I was in premarital counseling. I was doing everything that I thought was right, like in the book. I was like checking it off. Before you jump into that more specific detail, I talked to a lot of people about this and something I subscribed to growing up was this like societal checklist for us. I mean, it sounds like you were very similar in this overachieving. You always had to like kind of, I don't know, maybe for me, it was a lot of.

10:04
I knew I could do it, but also a lot of that was this external validation that I was looking for from the people around me. Like, see? Look, I'm checking the boxes and the next thing kind of on the list when you have a successful job is this family, if you will, or relationship into a family. It sounds like you also subscribe to that model of society has a checklist for you. I'm actually wearing a shirt that I made that's like abandoned the checklist life because- That's so funny.

10:33
At some point, it took me a long time to get here, but I was like, who gave me that checklist and why did I absorb that into my life? And so it sounds like maybe you did as well in some capacity. It's interesting. Yeah, I think it's a society's checklist. I think it's also stuff that happened to us when we were younger. My parents divorced early. Having a committed relationship that was blended in marriage and a really healthy marriage was important to me. I really wanted that. So putting that onto it.

11:03
being the oldest sibling and really wanting to like set the standard for building the beautiful family relationship that I have. I have four younger siblings. I have lots of love in my family, tons of cousins and starting being the oldest, starting that next generation of having more kids and bringing babies and children and laughter back into the family Thanksgiving. Like all of those were things that I was like, yes.

11:28
sign me up, I can do it. Like this is something that I will love and thrive and like just be a part of. So you wanted to do those things too. So it wasn't like out of obligation. I think a lot of mine was out of obligation. So I love that for you that these were like intentional decisions, but also something that you knew like had to come in a particular order maybe. Yes, well for me it-

11:52
For me, it had to come in this order in order for it to feel safe for me, right? So having the divorce when I was younger definitely led to stuff like concern of abandonment and then self-worth. My parents are both wonderful parents, but when you're young, that kind of happens. And so yeah, abandonment, self-worth, all of this stuff, I think those started coming into it. Maybe that, and I've talked about this after this whole experience, I've obviously talked to a lot of professional psychologists about like, where are these...

12:22
patterns come from, but yeah, needing that person. And yes, you mentioned it was all really important to me. It wasn't necessarily a societal checklist. However, I think because I wanted it so bad, I wasn't necessarily looking at the character that I was inputting into this play that I was trying to create, right? And that's, if sometimes, and I don't remember, it was a quote by, I don't remember who said it, but it was something along the lines is like, you need to not force the character into the play that you want.

12:50
right, that's your life, you can't force it. If they're not right for the part, you need to like acknowledge that and let that person go and keep moving on. And I think that was what was hard for me is my problem solving part of me, who loves business, loves to solve problems, was like, oh no, I can make this person work. Like this will definitely work. And then obviously like that wasn't the case.

13:15
Yeah, I think there's a lot of people listening that come from families with divorce in them. And we see that. I think that seeing that break does something to us that when we do get in a relationship that that is like longer, I think we start to be like we start to miss some of the things because it's like, well, I have to keep this together. Everything's okay, most of the time, you know, and like, we start like, ignoring.

13:43
things or maybe we just don't see them as clearly as other people might see them, at least from my perspective. Yeah. So I say rose-colored glasses for sure, but also a wonderful psychologist that I talked to. He's wonderful. He says, you know, your brain is the biggest liar to you sometimes. You can cause yourself to lie. And that was so true looking back at this relationship. I had a journal that I was journaling throughout this whole relationship. And...

14:12
I only wrote the good things. I only wrote how grateful for I was for this person, how wonderful some of the experiences were that I had with him, what he was bringing out with me. I never wrote anything negative, and I reviewed it after the breakup, and I looked at it, and I saw one journal entry out of this whole three-year experience, one, and it wasn't even written, it was a drawing. It was a drawing of me on an island by myself and him on another island by himself.

14:42
draw, it was stick figures. But that was the one entry that was honest. And I was like, wow, the brain is just remarkable. Because you can really just I mean, manifestation, abundance mindset, growth mindset, all these things are wonderful, but it gets really tricky. And you got to really make sure that you're being honest with what's occurring, as opposed to what you're trying to manifest because you cannot manifest your partner to change. You cannot do that. You can manifest this life.

15:10
but you cannot manifest someone to change in that. It doesn't work. Do you think anything in that journal, because most of it was positive, was there any part of you that maybe subconsciously was only writing the positive stuff just in case anyone else saw it? Um, you know, that is, someone has never asked me that question, and you know what, oh my God, it just came up with a memory that I had. So I actually was doing, oh my God, I didn't even recall this.

15:39
but I was doing a course early on in my relationship with my ex and it was separate that I was doing. It was just a growth course, a weekend thing. And I wrote some of the things that my family was pointing out about this new relationship that I was in, in this like one of those journals they give you just for the course, right? And you know what? He freaking read it. I've completely forgot this whole thing occurred until you asked me this question. And he literally, I remember it was early on in the relationship.

16:06
He read it and I did write negative things in this course book and I remember, oh my God, it's so vivid now and I can't, the story is just taking me back. But he literally read it and that night he got really drunk and just in an aggressive kind of way and I felt guilty for writing the negative things about what my family was saying about him, those things that I should have been paying attention to. I felt so guilty, I think that was the last time.

16:32
that I brought energy into it and I felt guilty for making him feel that way. And at that point on, I think I just wanted to only focus on the positive and never make him feel bad about himself again. And I'm so thankful for you to bring that up. I literally forgot this whole scenario. And it's crazy what you try to forget too, because that was an accountability piece early on in the relationship that should have given me something and I didn't. I should have acted on this and I didn't, right?

16:59
But I think us overachievers, I think we're people pleasers generally. And so like we absorb a lot of things that aren't ours to absorb, like blame or shame or any of those components. And so I don't I mean, I think that experience of you kind of forgetting it or kind of shifting directions to be more positive was probably subconscious after that experience. But I mean, I think that's normal.

17:23
And I love that you go around and you talk about these things. And we'll get to actually this pivotal moment that we kind of alluded to now. But I think it's important for other people to hear because so many people, and maybe you experience this in your own, like you're the only one going through this. So I can't really share it. Am I the only one experiencing this, or do other people feel it? And so if people can hear your story, they'll be like, maybe I should pay attention to things. You know, like a little warning sign. So.

17:52
Take us back to during COVID, you were kind of feeling a certain way. Yeah, so COVID, I was home more. And I think that was the big thing. Like, you know, dealerships, you're in the stores all the time. I was traveling for different work. So I wasn't like it wasn't a big thing to be at home. And then with COVID, I was I just felt like there was a vibe that was an energy that was different and I don't know what it was. And I was thinking, oh, well, maybe it's because he's going to propose. Right. So that might be the energy. And you read all those relationship stuff and they say, oh, guys, energy always shifts when you propose.

18:22
So it wasn't that. Anyway, I was getting ready one day in the mirror and I'm like drying my hair, looking in the mirror and he's in the bathroom over here and I saw the reflection of his phone in the mirror while I was getting ready. And it was picture. And I never usually would have paid attention. It would, you know, when I'm getting ready I'm thinking about other things. But it paused me enough to be like, say, what was that?

18:50
And his reaction was just completely like, you know, struck like I know nothing, like nothing. And it was so defensive really quickly. And again, I don't know what made me keep asking the question and pushing, but I was like, no, what is that? Because normally I just blow it off. I'm like, okay, whatever, blow it off. And I didn't, I just kept pushing, pushing, pushing. And I found out that he had been talking to another woman at that point. I kept...

19:16
I don't know what made me do it, but I said I feel like I needed a it was like a what-else moment That was my phrase for this hour-long kind of confessional because what ended up happening is he did feel like it was a confessional kind of time and He actually shared with me. This isn't something that's new I've been dating all different people a whole different whole relationship and he just confessed it was like something that I really wasn't expecting at all

19:44
Wasn't one person, it was multiple people, it was different situations over the whole period of time. I don't know that there was a point in our relationship that he was exclusive to me. And I was in like shock mode, just complete shock. And people asked me, ask why would he confess all of that? And it was because he was looking for salvation because he wanted to stay with me and work with him through this problem. And that's how he ended it. Like, I want you to stay with me, help me work this problem. He was really...

20:14
And for that, that was probably the hardest thing because my problem solving skills wants to help him. Yeah, and help him. Okay, I can help you. I loved, and I loved him. I loved him in that moment, even with all that betrayal, I was still very much in love with him. And when someone's asking you for help, right? My normal response to anyone that I love asking for help or seeking help is, yes, absolutely, let me help you.

20:42
I didn't know what to do. I was in complete freeze mode and I was just, he was shaking as he was sharing the stuff. My dog was comforting him and I was just stone cold. It was the scariest point in my life I've ever been in. It really was. And the only thing that I could think of doing was I actually called my mom and I put her on speaker. And it was crazy that she picked up, but she did, because it was later at night when I was getting ready and she picked up.

21:09
And I said, Mom, like, this is what's happening. And I told her everything. And I said, Mom, I think I have to leave. Like, I really think that I have to leave right now. And she said, Jillian, just go. And I did. I grabbed my dog. I said, this is, I can't do this. And I left. And I never spoke to him again. Like, I, yeah, I kept it very, I cut it off. And...

21:33
For that, I know there are so many women and I was very ashamed after this. I didn't tell my story to a lot of people. There was a lot of shame because I'm smart, I'm successful, how do I let this happen for three years with all these different people and I never picked up on anything? How does this happen? But sharing my story helped. But I also, in sharing, I realized some people are like, how did you leave him just that night? And I said, you know what?

21:58
After reflection, I was very much in a place of privilege that I was able to leave him that night. I had my family support, my mom was on the phone with me, leave, I was financially able to separate everything as clean as I could. I was so lucky that I was able, we didn't have children. This was something that was a privilege for me to be able to make that choice. And there's so many women who can't make that choice, and men too, who are in that relationship where they're stuck.

22:28
And I don't want it to, I always tell people, don't think that I have so much courage, yes I have some, but the reality is that I was able to leave because I had places to go and there's so many people who can't make that same choice and I wanna give them, have all the grace in the world because that was a hard choice for me with all these resources. And I can't even imagine what it's like having to have to consider that choice when you don't have the resources. Yeah, I mean that's a really good point that I would imagine that a lot of people.

22:58
The decision itself is hard enough to make, right? But then if you have to think of the logistics, the things that don't matter in the moment, but matter long-term, you have to figure these pieces out. Was the decision, like, I don't wanna say the word hasty, but I'm going to. Was a hasty decision like that something that was part of your repertoire? Like of things, would you make quick decisions? Or were you more of an analytical, think through everything and then make a decision? Because it sounds like it wasn't really like your...

23:27
normal response. I'm an analytical person, for sure. I look on data after multiple times. Like, that's what I do in my career. That's what I do in life. For this decision, though, I, early in the relationship, I made it very clear to everyone that I'm dating, and it's based on, you know, my own family patterns, and what I'm looking for is my love is conditional. There is condition involved in my love. My condition is that it must be an exclusive, monogamous relationship. And...

23:55
In my brain. Yeah. I don't think a lot of people start with that. For me, I had to get there. I think it was honestly, it was help with therapy, helping me to get to arrive at the decision and that understanding about myself. And it's gotten a lot clearer as I've been having conversations with people with all different relationship types, because I don't, I think everyone, it's up to them what their relationship type should be and how that feels. And that's all wonderful and great. As long as both partners.

24:22
understand the parameters of the relationship, that's great. And for me, like if he needed an open relationship, that he needed to, he had to be able to communicate that to me, say that, and then I needed to be able to make that choice on yes or no. And I made it very clear my whole relationship, I was not comfortable for that. Like whatever it is, I need an exclusive, committed relationship. So as soon as I like got my mom on the phone honestly and was saying out loud like,

24:52
This is, this doesn't, this no, this was a, it goes back to my business and I know, he broke terms. Like, this was what I said I needed and this is what I said to make me feel safe, to make me feel loved, and really safe is the big one for me. Like, because I have the fear of abandonment issues, I have the self-worth issues, in order for me to feel loved, I must feel safe, and I felt so unsafe. And that was him breaking terms and for me.

25:19
That was enough. I had one thing and that was enough to leave. Well, when you say that, it's so interesting. What really stuck out for me was the fact that you said what was happening out loud to a third party. Because I think so many of us, I'll just talk about myself, when something is happening, it seems so much different when it's in your head, just rolling over, and then when you verbalize it, everything kind of makes sense a little bit more.

25:49
if it can. And I wonder if if you hadn't called your mom, like, would you have stood in it? Would you have, you know, like, helped him or been like, Okay, you know, we'll work through, you know, like, I think there's a lot of people. I love that you called her that you just were like, like, because I don't think a lot of people would do that. And then saying it out loud probably gave you more clarity than you would have had. Had you just thought about it, right?

26:16
Yeah, I think I absolutely would have stayed had I not called her. I think I would have. I was there. I think I felt myself getting to that point, hearing, like seeing him. And I like he was shaking and I there was a part of me that was just wanting to comfort him like my dog was like, I want to comfort him. Even though he's the one who's breaking my heart right now. There was such an urge to like try to comfort him. And that's where I was like, I freaking need comfort right now. I do need comfort. Let me call my mom. Like, I need to do that.

26:45
And I think it was interesting that I called her, because I've talked about this now, instead of a sister, I'm extremely close to, I have a best friend I'm extremely close to. I didn't call them, I called my mom, and that was something that was another interesting choice that I don't know, looking back at it, I don't know how it got there, but it was something, maybe it was unconditional love, going back to love, and I needed that love in that moment for my mother, maybe that was it, and realizing like, okay, your self-worth, Jillian, is more than what is being.

27:13
given to you right now, like you deserve more, maybe that's what is needed. But for me, accountability has always been a thing, and if I'm gonna say that I love myself, right, then I had to take an actionable step showing myself that I love myself. So I'm not trying to prove him in that moment that I love him, I'm trying to prove in that moment that I love myself, and the action that I took was calling my mom, getting the courage I needed to leave him, and then continually not reaching out, because oh my God, Matt, after...

27:43
That day one, there's a countdown. It's been one day since I haven't talked to him, two days, three days, four days, 10 weeks, and it just keeps going on and on in your head for a long time. And each day it's harder, it's harder. It's like I haven't laughed with him, I haven't touched him. And you have to remember, I was completely in love with him, leaving him. There was no concern. I was thinking I was gonna marry this person. But it's up to you to really stay accountable back to that action of I love myself more than that.

28:13
And I had to do that. And choosing myself was probably one of the harder decisions that I've ever made. I mean, it sounds like a lot of the things that you were achieving in life before that, it was like there was this external validation kind of piece and it was, yeah, sure, you were serving yourself and you were making yourself safer by the choices that you were making. But now when this individual showed you his cards, it was like, now it's time.

28:41
You know, like this is it, you know, like before, maybe you saw, you know, maybe you didn't see, but maybe there were little flags that if you were to analyze it, that you kind of just like, whatever, you know, like, yeah, it's fine. It's an Instagram post or it's a, you know, whatever post. And now you're like, you showed me your cards. I'm going to show you mine. And my cards are like, I'm out of here. Good for you, though. I think that's I know you say something about like you had the privilege and.

29:06
the ability to do it, but still, it's still a very, very difficult decision because at that point, a lot of it's not analytical. A lot of it's not in our head, it's in our heart. And when you love someone as much as you say you did at that point in time, that's a really hard decision. So good on you for making the choice to love yourself first, because I mean, I think we hear it all the time now, right, from gurus, but until you experience loving yourself first, you can't love anyone else.

29:35
You know, like you can't really do all the things you want to do until you're really So I bet that gave did that give you like Did that give you weirdly like a lot of confidence in yourself and the decisions you made or did it go the other way? I think it didn't for good two years after I think for that first year it was me talking to my psychologist every week and saying like When will I stop crying? Like when does this stop? When does it stop? I was just

30:04
Yeah, I think on the opposite side, I didn't... I felt confident in the decision, but I felt terrified of what's next. Because were you upset because... Were you upset because it ended, or were you upset because you didn't know, like during? Like what was making you so sad that things had changed? And maybe you don't know. No, no, no, I mean...

30:31
I was definitely upset that it ended. I was upset that he took away that future that I was so looking forward to. Like having kids, getting married, and then the next couple of years that was on the docket. Like I was walking around my neighborhood, manifesting like, oh, maybe in a couple of years, I'll be pushing a stroller of my own child. And he took away that, like that was taken away. I think that was the huge piece. And then...

30:53
Honestly, leaving it, it was fear. I was so upset at him for making me so scared because now that's still very important to me. Having kids, getting into a committed, exclusive relationship is very important to me. But now I was terrified, starting to date again, starting to think about it. And the fear of getting into another relationship like that, and I read all the books, like once you're attracted to one pattern, you tend to like stick to that.

31:20
unless there's a big adjustment in self-reflection stuff that you have to stay active on. So I was terrified. I literally, I think that was the biggest thing is, I was on it, I lost the confidence in myself to make a good choice in a relationship. I think that was the big point. And I'd be pissed that he took those years. You know, like, you know, that's really tried of me, but you know, I think that there's.

31:46
There's probably a lot of learning that you got from this experience. If we want to like find a silver lining that you got away when you did. But at the same time, there's there's so much sadness that comes with it. But it sounds like within the last year, you've kind of made a pivot because of it. Like, did did this change your life in ways outside of it? Sounds like it did. But outside of relationships or outside of this love bubble kind of piece of your life, like how did.

32:15
What manifested after that? So I got really, again, I'm very analytical. When I have a goal, I want to set steps to achieve the goal, right? And that goes back to my business. Yeah, mindset or whatever that looks like. Yeah, smart goals. So I'm like, all right, well, how do I actually do this? And you have to remember, it's hard when it's like this because it's emotional and there's all these other things that are not.

32:42
as analytical as you would like them to be, or if you would feel safe for them to be. But I was like, all right, I need to figure this out. So what I ended up doing is I got really thoughtful about this next step in my life. And I was still in auto, I was still loving it, but I needed to prioritize dating, and dating in a really healthy mindset way, and being super aware.

33:07
not to choose a partner that would have been that's similar to that, right? And I wanted to be really intentional about that. So I read a bunch of books. I was with my therapist, like on a weekly basis, talking to her, especially about fears, especially early on. Like there was a time when I went on an early first date and he was driving the same car as my ex. And I was like, oh, my God, like I got I got so triggered by just the car.

33:32
And then I also talked to different dating coaches because I was like, maybe this one, this can also help me kind of figure out strategies to meet my goal too, right? Because I needed strategies. Like I just, I hadn't dated a lot. I didn't have a lot of dating experience. When I got out of college, dating apps came onto the scene. So really a lot of my, most of my experience had been through dating apps. A couple of people had a date in college, but mostly through dating apps. And...

33:56
Navigating dating apps is a tricky business. It's definitely tricky. It's a tool to give you leads, but it's not a tool to help you find or nurture the relationship that means something to you, right? That it's not gonna help you. It's honestly, all it's gonna do is distract you because you're thinking, oh, this didn't work on a first date. Let me go back to the apps and find someone new. So anyway, I started getting super intentional. I started going on dates.

34:20
writing down things that made me feel good, how I felt during the date. I'm trying to be really freaking honest with myself because obviously I wasn't before. Good and bad. Yeah. So really freaking honest. It was working for me at a time, but then I'm not the best at journaling. You meet someone who's really hot and there's tons of butterflies and you fall into the same pattern. He's exciting and oh yeah, he wasn't really nice to the wait staff. But you know.

34:48
He was angry, like you start getting into these things where you're forgiving or like, I don't know, he didn't really ask me a lot of questions myself, but you know, he was passionate about what he does. So you just start getting into those things, which is early on stuff about ignoring things that you should be paying attention to, right? So it's like, well, this isn't working. So then I'm like, all right, well, let me put it into like an actual like score kind of thing, write it out. And I started designing like what will eventually be the app that I created, Clara for daters.

35:16
Because I was like, I need a relationship management tool. I need something to help me see all of the people that I'm talking to, right? That I'm just matching with. See how I feel after each date. See things about how my mood is going into the date. See things about how I'm reflecting on his actions after the date and keeping me accountable. Going back to the car business, that's what I used to say to all my sales guys.

35:43
at the end of the month when there's not enough leads, right, they're saying, there's not enough leads. I'm like, there's tons of leads, let me show you the data. Like, here's what's this happening. You're not nurturing this relationship, you're cherry picking over here, you're getting distracted with someone over here. It's like, for me, it's a very similar, like, broken funnel kind of thing. We have all the leads in the world with the dating apps, but it's that middle section of the funnel where we're not actually doing our due diligence.

36:10
checking in with ourselves and going to a second and third date, getting to know someone where it's missing. And that's what I was doing. I was like, oh, great, he's great. He's like, so great, I'm just gonna keep going and then get my heart broken because it ended up not being the one. But yeah, that's how Clara for Daters kind of came about. I ended up building it at the end of last year and thinking, all right, well, let me play around with it. Let's see what it's gonna do. I'm obviously a super user. We launched it in February in the app store.

36:36
And we have some wonderful users on it. And what we're doing is you're basically logging your dates. You go on a date. I went on a date last night. I went on a great date last night. First date, I met him from Bumble. I logged him into Claire for Daters. It asked me what was my mood going in to the date. I was in a great mood, so I have five stars. Asked me where I went on the date, and I said I went to a great restaurant over in Laguna, and they gave it five stars, because I want to make sure the environmental setting.

37:03
And then it asked me a set of 10 questions. And these questions are questions that I actually developed with psychologists to kind of help set the, understand your vibe after the date. The questions are always gonna be around physical safety, emotional safety, relational safety, chemistry, and values. So one of the questions it might ask for chemistry, for example, is was there a quality that you found attractive about your partner? Yes or no. So understand the differentiator, it's not like was your partner hot.

37:33
Was there a quality that you found attractive by your partner? So yes or no. Another physical safety one would be, did you feel safe? Did you feel respected? Were there any conversation topics that made you feel uncomfortable? So it's a yes or no set of questions and at the end you got a score and that's your your vibe check score So after you you went on a date, you're like, okay, this is how I felt and last night this guy I had a 10 I was like great. I should definitely go on a second date with him now before

38:00
I'd be like, well, I didn't really feel the butterflies. And I didn't, there weren't any anxious butterflies that were making me nervous throughout the date. I know, because I actually have tells, I'll grab my bracelet and I'll start playing with my bracelet during a date where I'm super getting anxious. But with him, I was calm, cool, collected, and it was a 10-date. And now I know to go on a second date with him, give it a shot, let's nurture this connection that really feels good, as opposed to blowing it off, because...

38:26
No, there wasn't any butterflies. I don't think I was, he was that hot. So I'm not gonna go on a second date. So it's also trying to change my behavioral mindset. Now, vice versa, I went on a date a couple weeks ago and super hot, doing the bracelet thing, obviously I was anxious. And he scored lower in Clara, right? Like he asked me, he was rude to those around me. He didn't ask me any questions about myself. Like, and it's yes, yes, no, it's yes, no. I have to be honest. Like if you're not honest with the app, it's obviously gonna- There's no point, right? There's no point.

38:53
But no one sees it. So like, if you're not gonna be honest with yourself in this app, then who are you gonna be honest with? It's like your journal. Yeah, but he scored lower. So now it's like, well, I was obviously like wanting to go on a second date with him, but he hadn't even texted me back. I had been like three days. So he's obviously ghosting me. So the vibe check was right. Like he was just kind of, you know, blowing it off kind of thing. And that's something that I should consider not like pursuing. Like let's let that go to a different space. In Claire Ferdata's actually you put him on cut. So you did...

39:23
to have the information, but you're moving to two different spaces, it no longer serves you. Matching that energy, right? He didn't reach out, same thing. But yeah, so having this data, because I told you I was terrified after going into dating again and scared that I would make the same choice, but being able to collect this data, have this data, review it and making intentional choices based on how I was feeling, it's been so powerful for me.

39:52
as a dater and then I've seen it also with my users, realizing that they're not giving the people the second date that they should, they're blowing it off because of one little thing or vice versa, they're pursuing connections that aren't making them feel good when they're actually meeting them, right? And I think that's where I really messed up in my last relationship is I think if I were to have logged how I felt in those first 10 dates with my ex before, I think...

40:22
I would hope that I would have picked up on this lower score on how anxious I was feeling early on about it. Like his distraction levels, like his lack of, his not consistent communication. I would hope that that would have tuned me in enough to pause me enough so that I didn't fall in love with him so much that I was three years later, broken heart later. But yeah, that's what I'm trying to use. That's fascinating. I love that.

40:47
you found a way to give quantitative data to something that seems so nebulous or messy and cloudy, and the fact that you have this. I would imagine that most of your users would have to have some kind of one true honesty with themselves, right? And so really go in with intention. But also, I would imagine that people

41:14
would have to have a little bit of an analytical brain. Are you finding that you have to train people or is there a book that comes with it, like, hey, time to be serious with yourself. Is there a gap for some people or are people just gravitating it in all different types of people? You know, not at all. There's no book needed. And I find that it's been really easy for my users to start using it. As soon as they log their first date, their first prospect, they're like, oh, I get it.

41:43
And I think the big thing about my users today is we're all on all these social media apps. So likes, scores, conversions, impressions, everyone already has that data mindset. Yeah. So all it is, is applying it to a place where they're not having that data. And that's the thing that data has always done for me. I'm a millennial. I kind of grew up around data, right? So in any of this stuff and work in.

42:09
like we're always looking at something. We're looking at Yelp five-star review. We can expect something, right? There's data, there's 10 reviews here for this place that we're going to to support that will probably have a positive experience, right? So everywhere we go, it's usually data-focused and that's always been the best place for me to live when I have high anxiety, high emotions, like let's live in the present, like what's occurring as opposed to what I'm thinking might occur.

42:36
or all this stuff. So I think for me as an anxious attachment style, people pleaser, like all this other stuff, data is the one place that I can relate, it grounds me in reality. And I think that's what happens for most people too, because again, I'm seeing all these people are on social media, they understand like when they're getting likes, not likes, impressions, all this stuff. So it kind of grounds them in, you're not just swimming like a dog like who doesn't go anywhere, like it's not a hamster wheel, you're actually moving forward with different data and learning things as you go along.

43:06
I was actually on a different podcast, relationship podcast a couple weeks ago, and we talked about how we can get so caught up in the outcome of dating, right? I'm dating, so I'm gonna be in, I'm gonna be marriage, and that's my outcome. That's the only outcome that's a success outcome. When in reality, it shouldn't be that. It should be I'm dating, I'm learning things, I'm building my muscles in terms of behavior and boundaries and all of these things. I'm learning about myself, learning what works for me in a relationship. These are all good things.

43:34
That's the outcome is to get healthy into healthy relationships, not into a marriage like right now. That's the outcome later on. I kind of compare it to the gym. When you start going to the gym, your goal is to get a healthy body, to work on your health. You're not going to turn into the supermodel tomorrow. It's going to take some time. That's the outcome.

43:56
But in the meantime, you're really learning, like building up those muscles, you're being able to walk longer, do more things, activities, and those are the metrics we should focus on when we're dating, not the other. And I think if we can stay in that space of focusing on these little deliverables, these little metrics of, hey, I'm not, I'm not, I had two 10s this week when I went on dates. I'm actually getting better at this. Like this might be something that I should consider. And if I focus on this as opposed to outcome, it doesn't cause that whole.

44:23
delete the apps, redownload the apps, pause dating, I need a mental health from breaking, dating, that happens a lot. If we're being consistent, just like in nutrition and workout, we shouldn't have to have the mental health breaks because we're being consistent, there's not an extreme, and we're recognizing the social connection is a value that's important to pay attention to during the journey. Yeah, I wonder if there's this aha moment for some of your users in which...

44:50
maybe they go on a date, they score it a certain way, and then they still pursue it, and then realize that that lower score actually meant that maybe they shouldn't have pursued it. I wonder if there's that, I feel like most of the things that I get good at are things that I failed at to begin with, or something like I got checked. And almost if we, I don't wanna take your really devastating breakup, but it's like you were checked, and then this came out of it. It was like, hey, Jillian.

45:20
pay attention and it had to be like a hard no, like a hard stop for you to then be able like, okay, no, I always knew what I wanted out of this. I always knew that I wanted to feel safe. I didn't want this, I didn't want that. Now I just need to be way more intentional about it. Maybe I was just skimming the surface before, but now you found a method, a way that works for you and clearly other people. I mean, it's like.

45:47
sucks that you had to go through that, but look what you're doing for yourself now and the type of person you are now and the things like you said, like you went to the gym, if you will, you went to the relationship gym and the loving yourself gym to figure this all out because of that really terrible experience. Do you look back at that in a weirdly thankful way?

46:11
big believer and things happened for a reason. And I think that definitely that that experience had to happen. There was still and even though like he broke my heart completely. There was stuff about our relationship that I really loved like he definitely brought me out of my shell and experiences I did adventures that I never would have done had I not been with him. And those are things that I still have value and value today. And I don't like who he is. It's like I

46:40
I pray for him, like I really hope that he finds his person and it's someone that can be in a relationship with him that he needs, it's just not me. And if this is the experience for me getting out of it and helping other people just figure out what that means, like hopefully one day maybe he uses the app so he can figure out what a good relationship feels like for him and maybe it's completely different. Maybe it's a non-monogamous relationship and he's choosing connections that are still healthy for him but in a non-monogamous way.

47:07
That's the thing about my app is I'm never gonna tell anyone what kind of relationship to choose. The only thing that I'm telling you is make sure you feel good in the relationship and you only know if you feel good if you go on dates with them and check in after every interaction. That's all I'm saying. So you can be in whatever kind of relationship you want and use the app. And the other thing Clara does is Clara for Daters is never gonna tell you, stop dating them. That's up to you to make that decision. It's an accountability type thing, right?

47:36
Yeah, it's a choice. It's up to you to read the data and determine, does me dating a three the last six months, does that make sense for me? Does this feel good? You can eat pizza every day of your life. Is it gonna make you feel good or it's not? That's up to you, but I'm never gonna tell you don't do it, but it's up to you to kind of reflect and take those moments of intention that way. Yeah, you kind of have to be in a space where you have enough self-awareness to be honest and to be...

48:05
Like, is this what you really want? Like, sure, like you said, people can, you can go on a million dates and do whatever you want and have the most fun if you think that's fun. Like, if that's where you are in your life, good on you, but even still, keeping this data might help you determine which ones are more fun. If we look back, if we look back at your ex, the whole time you were talking about him, like, he just needs to start loving himself. Like, he just needs to figure out, like, I don't think what he was doing besides you, I don't think, had anything to do with you.

48:33
or those other people. It was all about himself and we know this. And I think that makes sense. When you're dating, you really do have to understand yourself and what you want and be truthful in what you want. Otherwise, you're gonna end up 10 years down the line with that same person and covering up the little piles of dirt that you're hiding things because you're just like, well, it's fine down here. And I think that's the most important thing is you have to be honest with the people you're choosing to be in a relationship with.

49:02
And I think that's where we're missing out a lot right now, this situationship culture. It's just, it's so toxic and we're avoiding uncomfortable conversations. We are avoiding what our needs are, right? Jay Shetty actually says that- Because we want people to like us. Yeah, Jay Shetty says it really well at Eight Rules of Love. He talks about like being extremely honest with what you want and what your needs are. You need to be very honest.

49:28
And I look at the best relationships I've seen in like family and friends, and those are the ones, like when they're very honest with who they are and what they need with their partner and the other person's honest back, those are always the healthiest relationships. They're not the relationships who never fight, they're the relationships who know how to fight, like have the conversations, have the uncomfortable conversations. And I think that's what we're missing on. And that's where I hope the data, so this is an example of another reason where I love using the data because,

49:56
I was actually going on a date early this year with a guy, not seeing him now, but it was a great guy. And on our third date, he took me to a really crappy place. I was like, did you even consider where we were going? The parking was horrible. I get scared of parking sometimes as a female thing. Yeah, you just don't know where you're going. I'm not female, but I don't like it. Yeah, yeah, and you're like.

50:17
I feel safe, how far is the walk? Like, should I do this? Like, all those things. Like, there's a lot of anxiety leading to dates sometimes. I just felt like he completely just half-assed, sorry, excuse my language, the whole thing. And I was like, after the date, I logged in and I wrote all that stuff. Like, I was frustrated, like, why didn't you do it? So anyway, all this stuff came up, but I liked him, so I was like, maybe I just talked to him. So I actually called him up and I was like, hey, dude, like, I was really thrown back by this date. Like, are you really?

50:43
interested in getting to know me better in this kind of capacity, because it felt like you really didn't put a lot of effort into it. It felt like maybe it wasn't something that you were looking forward to, and it just felt like it wasn't. And if that's the case, I just want you to be honest with me now, because I'd rather, we just be honest with each other. And he was shocked. He was like, oh my God, no, I really liked you, and I'm so sorry, and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, well, that's how I'm feeling right now, so I don't know, in the next one maybe think about it.

51:12
I would have never done this had the data not been, it was like, it was my mom. It was someone being like, no, this is all this data that you should be, these are important things. But anyway, I had the uncomfortable conversation and it could have been the end of it. It could have been the end, he'd be like, you're full of it. I don't even wanna talk to you now, Jillian. I can't believe you didn't like that date, but he didn't. Yeah, and that would have been good. I mean, even if he did, it would have been fine. Yeah, it would have, because it would have been a choice. But either way, he took the information and actually like,

51:41
picked me up the next day with flowers and detailed his car, had a reservation. Like he took the notes, right? And I think, and it made me feel good, made him feel good and having those uncomfortable conversations, it's just something that we have to have. Yeah, I think society, if we go back to the society checklist kind of thing, it's not really on the checklist, but I think there's something about you go on this date and like they have to like you, you have to like them and we put this pressure on ourselves. When we...

52:10
should just be realizing this is just another human being. It might not be your forever. You might not vibe at all. And that would be OK, too. And so then we, it's kind of like job interviews. You almost put on a persona of something. And it's like, well, when you start working, you're going to have to be yourself, or that's going to get really exhausting. And I think it's the same thing in dating that people have absorbed. I need to be liked. It needs to go farther. People need to see that this is successful.

52:40
And so I think what you've created is something that people need to lean into more and check themselves. And just really be like, and be okay if it's a five, and you won't go on another date with them. And be okay that it just didn't work. Yeah, well and even if it's a 10, and you felt like it was a 10 after the date.

53:04
but then he didn't call you back, or he didn't text you for a follow-up or whatever. So maybe you were off in your feeling, right? Because the questions are based on how you're feeling. Like one of the questions is, was it obvious that he was into you? I could feel like, oh yeah, no, it was obvious, but then he didn't set up another date, right? So there's observations, and those are the feelings, observations, and then there's evidence. Evidence is he didn't set up another date with you. That's the evidence. And that's something that you gotta collect, and it's just as important as the other.

53:33
Esther Carell says it really well, you have to learn about someone over a long period of time and different circumstances. And that's hard for us to hear because I'm also a hopeless romantic and I'm like, what are you talking about? First love, like please. You've seen all the Hallmark movies. Oh my God, the Christmas Hallmark movies are out now. So, you know, I'm just like vibing on those. I'm definitely, my dog's name is Mr. Darcy. Like I'm a hopeless romantic. I do recognize like, again, taking myself out of my hopeless romantic phase and putting myself in data.

54:01
This is also romantic, kind of experiencing evidence that he's showing up, he's asking me to pull out my calendar, figuring out a time, prioritizing during the holidays. Like these are all really cool things that I should be paying attention to that I might not have been before, right? Like other silly things get you distracted. So if you were to say what's next for your journey, what's next for you? Like what do you see for yourself now that you're

54:31
three years removed from, or two and a half, or three years removed from this event that really shifted you to prioritize yourself and the way that you feel. What's next for you? Personally, it's all about helping people experience clara for daters, but it's also me dating. So I am a super user of my own app. I really am still very motivated to.

54:58
get into a really healthy, committed, exclusive relationship. And I love being in a relationship, get married, have children. Those are all still extremely important things to me. Now, the fact that I created a business around it is interesting, but it doesn't mean it's anything less. Now, it does cause some sort of some awkward conversation on a date. I'm like, what do you do? Hey, there's the honest conversation.

55:21
It is, it's the honest conversation. And you know what, it's actually a really good test on like if this person has a growth mindset or not, because the ones who get it are like, wow, that's super cool and interested and they're not intimidated by it, right? Because they've been on the dating apps, they understand how easy it is to get, just have the distractions and not actually nurture the connections. They understand it. And the ones who don't, you know, they don't and that's okay. Do they ever ask you what score they got? Oh my God.

55:48
Always, always. That's their step one. But you know what? It's the ones who are intimidated by it, who are like, they'll ask you during the date, or they'll ask you to square you during the night. I'm like, no, we're in person. And then they'll just be like, oh, I didn't feel the connection. I'll be like, yeah, me neither, it's okay. And then they don't ask, so it just depends. I like to kind of wrap up these conversations with a question that's not possible, but I'm wondering if you could go back to Jillian that's kind of doing her hair that day.

56:17
doesn't really know if there's something that this version of you could say to her. What would you what would you want to tell her about this life journey she's about to go on?

56:30
Um, you will be surprised in a really good way. And like right after there was just so much dark and I kept asking my therapist, where is the fricking light, right? And sometimes you just have to turn it on yourself. And I think that's what I did with Clara is I went and I was like, I gotta figure out, I gotta make my own hope here. And that was me being taken in action, but it gets okay, it's okay. Like it'll be okay and you'll be really happy with where you ended up.

56:59
Yeah, do you feel like a different person now? You know, completely. And it's not only this decision that I made to pursue Clara for Daters, but it's also because I was in such a male-oriented world before and like power suits, high heels, the whole thing in auto, versus now having been really vulnerable conversations, talking about my personal life, something I've never done before.

57:25
It's been, it's allowing me to really get in touch with my feminine energy side that I really haven't done a lot of. As I, as in all of my life, I've always been super like more, you know, get things done kind of things. And I really love this version of myself that I have. This version of myself is fun on dates. This version of myself is flirtier. This version of myself is not as anxious or like looking for a goal. And I think that's been a really fun person to get to know these last couple of years.

57:53
Yeah, and it feels like maybe there's more confidence in a different way, like more confidence in the vulnerability and the fact that we're human and we're weird and we have weird quirks and that's what's cool about it, that we're all different in our own ways and I can relate to that feeling of, I would start sharing things about the loss of my mom and how that affected me. As a guy sharing bad days or sharing like,

58:22
when I feel terrible or when I'm depressed. And it just felt like such a shame to assume for the world for so long. And now that I get to do this and have conversations like this, it's like so fulfilling because like, at the end of the day, we're just like two human beings talking to each other about our experiences. In so much of it, we can relate to each other, and we're not that different. And so many people like to like...

58:48
put people in different boxes and whatnot, but we're all just trying to do the same thing here, right? We're just trying to love and be loved and enjoy whatever we're doing here on this planet. So thank you for what you're doing for the world. I think you're going to make better humans through better dating and being more open and honest with ourselves, right? I think that's most important. Instead of lying to ourselves of what we should be or what we shouldn't be and how we should feel. So.

59:15
Thank you for what you're doing, and thank you for just sharing your story here and being open and vulnerable to do it. Yeah, no, thank you so much for having me. It was wonderful talking to you. I love being able to share stories with people who I feel comfortable with, and this has been that environment, so I thank you for that. I also love that you thought of something that you hadn't thought about in a while. I hope it doesn't bring up any bad things, but it sounds like you have your therapist available if you need to talk it through. Oh yeah, I'm good. If people wanna learn more about...

59:43
for dating or how to get in touch with you or just like share with you that they had a similar experience and they just want to connect with you? What's the best way to get in your circle, your orbit? Yeah, so I'm on Instagram, Jillian Romero Chavez. You're welcome to DM me. I manage that. We have a Clara for Daters Instagram as well. We also have a Clara for Daters private Facebook group where people share stories and look for advice on how they're interpreting the data of what's going on to help kind of get...

01:00:11
understanding and learning from each other. And then the app, Clara for Daters, is available in the App Store. It's completely free. It's something, it's a tool to empower your dating journey and it's your tool. You're not gonna meet anyone on it. So if you're on all the dating apps and you're like, oh, I don't wanna download another dating app. This is not a dating app. This is to help you kind of navigate those other prospects that you're meeting from the dating app and it's your tool for yourself. It's your own personal tool and it's Clara for Daters and it's in the App Store.

01:00:36
Awesome. We will link to all of that. I already know a couple of people that I might recommend your app to, to just be more accountable in their dating journeys. Thank you for just being another human to have a wonderful conversation with. I just am so lucky to have this platform and be able to have these conversations with people I would never interact with ever, and it's so wonderful. So thank you for that. Thank you. I appreciate you. And if you're listening and you enjoyed this episode or you know someone that could resonate with,

01:01:06
Jillian's story or maybe is interested or would be interested in the app or whatever, please share this episode with a friend. For us indie podcasters, that's the best way to grow. I would appreciate it and I know Jillian would appreciate it as well. Thank you for listening and I will be back next week with a brand new episode of the LifeShift Podcast.