The Power of Surrender: Chris Graebe's Encounter with God on a Nashville Street

Chris Graebe
00:00:55

I grew up, like I said, in Indiana, but saw a lot of divorce, saw a lot of really rough things. Four dads, three moms as a kid, just wasn't, wasn't great. And just constantly just searching for who I was and searching in all the wrong places.

You know, I got to the party scene and all that jazz because, you know, it was fun for the, for the moment and for the time. And I just kind of come to the end of myself. And I never Forget it was October 13, 2002, and I was in downtown Nashville.

Now, if anybody's been to Nashville recently, it's not the Nashville that, you know today. Broadway was, it was a ghost town. It was a Sunday night. There was nobody down there.

And I just remember the concrete block I stood on and I was having just this internal conversation with God and I just said, hey, I'm. I'm done. Like, I'm tired, I'm broken, I'm empty, I'm hurting. Like, I can't do this anymore.

And I just said, hey, if you, if you are who you say you are, I'm going to, I'm going to give you my life here and I'm going to, and I'm going to stop doing this stuff. And I want to live for you and I don't want to live for me anymore. And I did. And radically my life changed forever.

It wasn't in some big service, it was just me and him on a concrete block. And I mean, I have a big poster on my wall or picture right here on my wall of that, of that very spot where it happened.

And honestly, that's where my life changed forever.

Matt Gilhooly
00:02:19

Today's guest is Chris Graebe.

Chris is a former MTV Road Rules reality star who really navigated this journey of personal transformation after stopping on a corner one day and talking to God. Chris's story is one of leaving behind the familiar comforts of a small town upbringing in Indiana to embrace the unknown and pursue bigger dreams.

He even talks about the confidence that his mother instilled in him and it really bled into the things that he chose to do.

In this episode, Chris shares his experience of stepping into the spotlight of reality TV fame and the spiritual awakening that came right before that experience. Both of these elements ultimately reshaped his life and guided him towards this path of authenticity and truly purpose.

We talk about the courage it took for Chris to make these bold life shifts and the role of faith in providing the clarity and direction as he was doing that. And also how embracing change has led him to lead a Life filled with meaning and fulfillment.

I know many of you have had similar journeys into or back into your faith, so I know that Chris's story will resonate with you. Without further ado, here is my conversation with Chris Graby.

I'm MacGill Hooley, and this is the Life Shift Candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever. Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Life Shift podcast. I am here with Chris. Hello, Chris.

Chris Graebe
00:04:00

Hey. Hey.

Matt Gilhooly
00:04:01

Well, thank you for wanting to be a part of the Life Shift podcast. We've been talking for a couple minutes before recording, and I was just kind of sharing. The show exists because of my own personal experience.

And When I was 8 years old, my Life shift happened.

And then I naively thought, like, that was my only time in my life that things had happened like that, where from one moment to the next, everything was different. When I was 8, my mom was killed in an accident. And at the time, my parents lived states apart. I lived with my mom full time.

And from that moment until probably like 30 something years old, I felt very alone in that experience. I didn't find therapy in time. I just felt like I was navigating this world alone.

And when I started the show, I wanted to talk to people about these moments, and so other people listening out there didn't feel alone in those circumstances. And so now I've got to talk to 150 plus people about their moments.

And hopefully all these people listening are like, oh, wow, I can do it, or I can move through or I'm inspired or whatever they. Whatever they do when they're listening. So thank you for just wanting to be a part of this.

Chris Graebe
00:05:07

Yeah. Honored to be here, man, and here to serve. You know, hopefully my.

My story, my life can somehow, you know, spark some kind of flame in somebody and help give them some inspiration and maybe some clarity on what their next step might look like.

Matt Gilhooly
00:05:23

I think it will. I think what I have learned is that from.

There's a little piece of everybody's story that can resonate with someone, like, even if it's not the main pivotal part of it, but it' like something that you're going to say or something like a way that you phrase something that for the first time triggers something in someone to kind of move forward.

And, you know, I think that that's the power of story, the power of being vulnerable and just being human, which we were born in the same year, which I'm giving away your age now. But I think growing up for me, I didn't feel like I was allowed to be vulnerable or to share certain things.

I don't know if you felt the same way, if society was telling you you had to be way. Did you have any of those experiences?

Chris Graebe
00:06:10

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I was mainly raised by my mom. My parents were divorced, and, you know, I was in a sports culture.

I was an athlete, so I was pretty much a lot of all the teams and stuff. And so I would say it was a. I'm. I'm pretty. You know, I'm. I'm in touch.

I mean, I'm a dad of four girls and I have one son, but there's a lot of emotions that are in my house, so I got to be kind of tapped into all that. So I think now, at the age of 43, I'm there. But I think when I was younger, you know, seeing a lot of divorce and things, I.

I wasn't definitely as in tune with what was going on inside of me at the time, that's for sure.

Matt Gilhooly
00:06:47

Yeah, I. I would imagine that your kids are probably experiencing more of that quote, unquote, freedom in the world to kind of feel the way they need to.

So I'm just curious. I.

I think that part of, essentially was through struggle of, like, not being able to process those feelings and not being able to share them or tell my dad, hey, things aren't great, because I just assumed that he wanted me to feel great and those kind of things. So then perfectionism came in and all these other pieces. And then finally, at 30, I was like, oh, I don't have to do any of that.

I can shed whatever I need to and just like, be a human and be flawed. And all the pieces are. Okay. So before we get into your story, maybe you can tell us a little bit about who Chris is in 2024.

Chris Graebe
00:07:34

Yeah, in 2024, I'm a husband. I'm a beautiful wife of 20 years. We just hit our 20 year wedding anniversary. We got five amazing kids.

Just sent our first one off to college, which is our son. He's 19. We got girls all the way down to seven years old.

I have lived a Forrest Gump type life when it comes to careers and different things, which we can talk about a little bit. But today I do a couple things. I've written a couple books with my wife. One called the Rhythm of Us. It's about five rhythms of a thriving marriage.

And another one called the Rhythm of Home, which just released not that long ago. We have a podcast called the Rhythm of Us.

And then I also am an angel investor so I find startups, invest in startups and I have a whole newsletter of people that follow me in the world of startups.

Matt Gilhooly
00:08:24

That's awesome. And I love the Forrest Gump like analogy of your life of like just jumping around.

Was that something because you were trying to find something that fit or felt right or was it just, you were just interested in so many different things?

Chris Graebe
00:08:40

You know, I mean I think if we're going into the story a little bit.

I grew up in a small town in Indiana and I, you know, played all the sports, did all the stuff, but it was, it was clear that the fishbowl that I had been dealt was way smaller than the personality that God had kind of put in me. And I didn't know really know. It always kind of played itself out as like, what is wrong with you dude? Just chill out. You know.

But it was like I always was like, I want to change the world, I want to be famous, whatever it was, you know, all those things in it. And so I, you know, God bless my little town of Eltsville, Indiana, but one of the best things I ever did was leave it.

And I think on that journey there was a whole world that I had no clue was out there.

And so I went to discover and I was curious and I, I think forever I always got, I was a little fearful of like, well this is the thing you're going to do for the rest of your life.

And so I probably at times self sabotage and was like, I'm going to go do this now and I'm going to do this because it was like that's scary to say that this is your now for your forever career or whatever. So I've, I've just done a bunch of things and it's.

What's cool is it's all worked itself out to where it helps me with the things that I'm doing today.

Matt Gilhooly
00:09:54

You said you were fearful of getting stuck in there, but it doesn't sound like you. Did you have any fear in those jumps or were you just like I can do this confidence that came with those things because I would be afraid to fail.

That's why I asked that.

Chris Graebe
00:10:09

Well, that's the interesting part is had a gift of a five foot tall mom who just made me believe that anything was possible. She was just like, you can do anything well, which is not true. I was never going to play in the NFL.

I was never, there were certain things that I was never going to Broadway, you know, like, but in my mind I was like, if I went, you know, and so that. That there was, like, kind of a blind confidence that happened with. Which landed in failure quite a few times. And also.

But it also really gave me the, like, where I think people were like. So I've had friends recently. I had a friend recently tell me. He's like, chris, I would call you a courage lender.

Like, you lend courage to someone who doesn't have the courage to take the first bold step.

And so for me, for whatever reason, the DNA that's been put inside of me, I just cannot stand by when someone is living a life that they shouldn't be living, and they have a dream and they're not taking a jump. And so, you know, one of the first ones for me was I, you know, I grew up in this small town, and there wasn't much of an exit plan.

The exit was you go work somewhere local, factory or whatever, or you go to college, and typically you came back and you got a job somewhere close by. But neither one of those boxes really worked out well for me. I tried the college thing. That didn't. That didn't work.

And then for me, I looked up and I, you know, your product of the same generation I am. And I saw mtv, and it was like, there was the reality shows back before reality TV was what it was.

And so there was the real World, and there was the Road Rules shows. And I was like, I'm gonna go be on Road Rules.

And I went to an open casting call one day, and I looked myself in the mirror, and I said, today, your life changes forever. And I went to that open casting call, and the journey basically led me to where I ended up as a cast member on MTV's Road Rules South Pacific.

Matt Gilhooly
00:12:13

That's fascinating. Also, just as a little side note, I wanted to be on MTV when I was in college. Like, it was like, I want Carson Daly's job.

Like, I just want to be on TRL and just talk about music videos.

Chris Graebe
00:12:25

100.

Matt Gilhooly
00:12:26

But you did it.

Chris Graebe
00:12:27

But I was funny, you say that is. Like, I told people, I told my wife, like, a couple years ago. I was like, babe, like, I think one of the things I'm supposed to do is be a host.

And you think about Carson and Seacrest and, you know, Larry Kings and all these people that just are so good at navigating what we're doing right here. And I've gotten to realize that on stages across the country and podcasts and different things of that nature. But it's. But it is. Yeah.

No, I bet for me, back then, it wasn't necessarily Carson. It was. It was Real World and Road Rules. Like, that's what I wanted to do. And so I ended up on Road Rules as a cast member.

Matt Gilhooly
00:13:02

I mean, talk about a life shift. Was that.

Was that a life shift for you, going from this small town to, like, television, like, on millions of people's television every night or not every night, but every week?

Chris Graebe
00:13:16

Yeah, it was. It was pretty wild. You know, you don't. I mean, especially, like, you have no clue.

You're just running around with some cameras in your face, and you're just like, this is fun, but you know that something is going to shift or something's going to change.

But it gets really interesting when you're walking down the street of New York City or Iowa and a street you've never been on your life, and they're like, hey, Chris. You're like, oh, hey, what's up? You know, and so. And so it was. I mean, gosh, what a gift. I was 22 years old. I got to travel the globe.

I got to go on tv. I did one of the challenges. I did battle the sexes, too. And so, like, you know, it was great. In my early 20s, it was super awesome.

Like, it was one of those things that you go only a small, small fraction of those who've dreamt of this moment get, get it. And I. And I got it. And it was. It was pretty cool.

Matt Gilhooly
00:14:08

Yeah, well, I mean, especially for that age that you were.

I mean, it just feels like, so, like, Like, I'm sure it was work, but also must feel like somewhat of a vacation in some way because you get to, like, do fun stuff.

Chris Graebe
00:14:22

Easiest, easiest, most enjoyable thing I've ever. I mean, it's like, this is not work. You kidding me? You're like, I got food paid for, I got lodging.

We're all in our, you know, young twenties, teens looking great, having fun. I mean, it was like there was. There was. There was no hard life about it, you know, that's for sure.

Matt Gilhooly
00:14:41

But also not. Not a job you can get. It doesn't feel like you could do that forever. Right?

Like, that's something where it's almost safe in that mindset of that younger version of you where you were like, I'm going to stuck in this. It's like, well, can I get stuck in this?

Chris Graebe
00:14:55

Yeah. I mean, there. There are some that have successfully found themselves stuck in this for a long time. And I. But it just. For me, it wasn't. I.

I just knew it Wasn't. I was like, I'm going to. I'm going to capitalize on my little 15 seconds here. And then.

And then, you know, pretty quickly thereafter, I got married and had kids. And so it was like, okay, that you're not going back on an MTV challenge now, so. Which is fine. It was. It was great. Why it lasted.

I closed that chapter and am forever thankful for it.

Matt Gilhooly
00:15:22

Would you consider that chapter or closing that chapter as any kind of, like, major shift in who you were? Did that define you, or did you feel lost?

Did you feel, like, okay, onto the next adventure, whether that's family, men, or how you move through life?

Chris Graebe
00:15:37

I think, for me, that the bigger shift came six months before I ended up on the show, actually. And that defined me and defines who I am even to this day. It gives me the filter for who I am. For me.

I grew up, like I said, in Indiana, but saw a lot of divorce, saw a lot of really rough things. Four dads, three moms as a kid just wasn't. Wasn't great. And just constantly just searching for who I was and searching in all the wrong places.

You know, I got to the party scene and all that jazz, because, you know, it. It was fun for the. For the moment and for the time, and. And I just kind of come to the end of myself, and I. I never Forget.

It was October 13, 2002, and I was in downtown Nashville. And now, if anybody's been to Nashville recently, it's not the Nashville that, you know, today. Broadway was. It was a ghost town.

It was a Sunday night. There was nobody down there. And I just remember the concrete block I stood on, and I was having just this internal conversation with God.

I just said, hey, I'm. I'm done. Like, I'm tired. I'm broken. I'm empty. I'm hurting. Like, I can't do this anymore. And I just said, hey, if you.

If you are who you say you are, I'm gonna. I'm gonna give you my life here, and I'm gonna.

And I'm gonna stop doing this stuff, and I want to live for you, and I don't want to live for me anymore. And I did. And radically, my life changed forever. It wasn't in some big service. It was just me and him on a concrete block.

And, I mean, I have a big poster on my wall or a picture right here on my wall of that. Of that very spot where it happened. And honestly, that's where my life changed forever. So I stopped. You know, I stopped dating I stopped drinking.

I stopped doing all that stuff. It was just like this crazy transformational moment. And. And that.

That was the catalyst so that when I went on the show, I wasn't the partier on the show. I was that guy six months prior to the show.

But I got to go and kind of relate to where those people were, but not from a judgmental perspective, just more of like a, hey, I've been where you are, and I'm here if you need me. And I. I'm going to be your friend. And. And, yeah, it was pretty. It was a pretty neat experience. It was really neat.

Matt Gilhooly
00:17:50

Did you grow up with any kind of connection to religion or spiritual practices?

Chris Graebe
00:18:01

I was in. My mom had us go to church here and there, but, you know, and I would have checked a box in my head to go, like, yeah, I align with this.

This is what I. But it was more of, like. It was. It was more of a get out of hell card is the way I. The way. How to explain. It was like, one day I'll get there.

But it wasn't. It wasn't a hard thing. It wasn't a true relationship thing. Like, right where I met him and I knew him and he knew me, and I could feel his love.

Like, I had never experienced that. No.

Matt Gilhooly
00:18:35

What was, like, so significant about that moment and where you felt the need to reach out, if you will, or to have that conversation? Because, I mean, it sounds like you're. Was there anything that, like, triggered it or was it just divine intervention? In a way, yeah.

Chris Graebe
00:18:52

No, I mean, it had been.

You know, I think for anybody listening here, they're going to know, like, when you keep chasing after stuff and you keep trying to find that thing, you know, like, what is it? And it's broken relationships. Perhaps it's substance abuse, perhaps it's workaholism. Whatever the thing even. Maybe it's just you.

Whatever it is, like. And you just go, this isn't working.

And for me, I had had a really rough weekend where I had, you know, seen an ex and gotten way more intoxicated than I should. And you just got down. You're just like, what? What? Like, for what? Like, what am I doing?

And you just start, like, questioning, like, all your choices, and you're. You're going like, this is. This road is. I can play this movie out. This is something my wife and I talk about all the time. You gotta.

You gotta play the movie out. Like, what is the end of this movie gonna look like?

And luckily enough, I was able to kind of look down around the corner and go, I don't like where this road is taking me. And I know that on my own I'm not going to be able to do this is not a good plan at all. And so that's when I said, okay, I can't do this, I need you.

And everything changed.

Matt Gilhooly
00:20:10

Do you feel that? Because I mean that I don't think you're alone.

I think a lot of people kind of hit this moment and then they have this conversation and then they feel maybe more purpose driven or more connected in some way.

Was it like an overnight kind of, or like in that moment feeling in which you were like, now you have a handle on this or was there like this transitionary period of like dipping your toe in there and kind of moving forward? Because I feel like some people might just be flip of a switch and then other people finding their way there.

Chris Graebe
00:20:45

I am probably like a lot of people listening here, like, I'm an all in kind of guy. If I'm partying, I was all in, you know, if I was, you know, whatever it was.

And because I just knew myself that if I kind of went halfway, I'd end up right back where I was. And so that day I had made a decision and I didn't even fully know what that meant.

I wasn't even thinking like, oh, well, that means that all these rules or whatever will come along with it. That wasn't like, who cared about all that. It was just like, I am tired, I am broken, I am empty, I am hurting and I need you.

I can't, I can no longer play the role of God.

Like, this is not working here because I don't have the tools or the ability to be omnipresent, omniscient and do all, you know, I am human, I am broken, I am fallible. And I have to acknowledge that. And I need you. And I. And I'm. And I'm here.

And so in that moment, I had made the decision, yeah, this is, this is who I am and this is what I'm doing. Was there a journey to form new habits, create new thought processes, you know, break off bad relationships? Yeah, that, that did not happen.

I mean that was a journey for sure, but. But there was no doubt about it that I can point back to October 13, 2002, when that happened. There's no doubt about it. That was the night.

That was the moment everything changed.

Matt Gilhooly
00:22:09

Curious how, I mean, I, again, I think other people have had these, like, wake up one morning and things are, I know Things are going to be different because I've relinquished control over this or I've decided I'm never going to do this. And it's just. It's like, hard to explain because it's just like, that's how it happens. But also, it's important to.

I mean, maybe you could share a little bit about what are some of the things that you had to intentionally do to become this version of you or to, as you said, like, kind of what drives all your decision making now in the way that you kind of exist in the world. Right. Is building that version of you up and that. Those belief systems.

Chris Graebe
00:22:51

Yeah, for sure. I think, you know, the first. It just. I do a lot of learning. One, I had to. I had to go, okay, you know, this is who I am and this is what I believe.

Like, I need to understand and surround myself with people who are wiser and smarter and older than me, and people who, you know, are. Operate in this faith. You know, I love Jesus. I'm following Jesus. Like, what does Jesus teach? Who is Jesus? How did he, you know, how did he serve?

How did he love? How can I become that to the world around me? And what does that mean? What does that mean for the husband that I want to be someday?

You know, I wasn't married or anything. What kind of dad do I want to be? You know, and then also, too, there was a process of healing that had to come, too. I mean, there was.

I wasn't just, you know, you're not just drinking and sleeping around because it's fun. There's. There's. There's a hole there. There's something there. And so that you have to unwind some of the wounds that are wide open and need healing.

So you need time, you need to breathe, you need to forgive yourself or anybody else that maybe hurts you so that you can be the best version of yourself, you know, and so there was a whole process of walking through, going, what is right? What is wrong? Who, you know, like, what. What was wrong in what I did, what was wrong, what others did to me, you know, and so.

And just finding peace to where, you know, here I am years later, and I try and tell people there really came a moment I was probably like late 30s, early 40s, where I realized, like, I know how I no longer have anything to prove to anyone. I don't have to get the approval of my dad. I don't need the approval of, like, anybody else.

Like, my wife loves me, my kids know that I love them, and they love me. And I'm able to provide for my family. And on the other side of that, like, I. I no longer had a drive to want to be famous or what. Because.

Because even in the early days of reality tv, what. I mean, yeah, being on MTV is great, but there's. There's a. Something behind that as well. Like, you.

There's probably a healthy side to where God says, hey, here's a microphone. You're gifted at a couple things. I can. I can put you in these places. Like we talked about the Carson dailies. I mean, that's a gift. That's a.

Talent's a gift that man has. And I know people go, like, what is so. Like, try it, try it. Like, it's not an easy thing. But what I'll say is, like, it's a.

It's a journey no matter where you are. But for me, like, I again played the movie of who I wanted to be and realized there was some real work that I had to do to. To grow.

And it didn't happen overnight. I mean, it's. It's a. Growth isn't ever. It's always. It's always happening. It's ever changing, and you're always changing.

You're never done growing as long as you're breathing. And so. But yeah, there was some.

There was some heavy lifting and some boulders that had to be kind of blown up there at the very beginning to kind of get my heart and mind, to get my posture right. Because if I. If I was going to get married or if I was going to have kids, there's like, definitely some, like, okay, I don't need this.

These things in my life. I want to be clean of that. And I want to do a relationship for the first time right. Ever when I find my bride.

And so there were some decisions that had to be made and some character things in me that had to be worked out before I was ready for those next big chapters of life.

Matt Gilhooly
00:26:09

Yeah. Well, also.

And then if you plan to have kids, you don't want to pass any things that inevitably get passed down, so try to make them as good as possible so that you can pass those down to your kids.

Chris Graebe
00:26:22

For sure.

Matt Gilhooly
00:26:22

Good way.

Curious about the religion piece, and I don't know if this question is going to come off in a way that I want it to, but you said that you had to do, like, some, like, research and connection and those kind of things. And you want to figure out, like, if you're. You're following Jesus in this way, how do you.

Did you Know, like, which area of religion you wanted to go in, if you will. Did you have. Did you discover that along the way? Like, maybe you were this. And then you switched a little bit to this in your journey?

Or is that some. I don't know how that works because I'm not myself.

Too spiritual, but curious if that was part of your journey, too, figuring out where your faith fell into. Maybe a bucket.

Chris Graebe
00:27:04

Yeah, I think. I think for me, obviously, I had some context as a. As a kid growing up, you know, but when that moment came, like, it was.

There was just no denying for me that it was. It was Jesus. And. And then I could, like, know him, experience him, feel him, like his presence.

It was just calling on his name and being transformed by him.

And then, you know, then the more you read of who he was and what he did on this earth, I think sometimes he can get a bad rap for the way people portray him. But. But man, he was love and grace and humility and strength all at the same time.

And while at the same time, you know, coming from that background, it's fully man and fully God. It was. It's a. It's a. He's a. He's. He's powerful. And so it was. For me, it was like there was just no denying that was. That was.

That was who I was going to serve and give my life to.

Matt Gilhooly
00:28:15

Yeah. I don't know what made me ask that question.

I think, because I know that there are a lot of, like, branches of Christianity and some people feel certain ways. And then there are. Are you more. Do you. Do you find yourself more spiritual or more assigned to a particular book, if you will.

Chris Graebe
00:28:38

Oh, well, I mean, the only schools. Yeah, no, it's good. It's a good question, I think. So there's a lot of.

For anybody listening here that maybe doesn't have context, there's a lot of what they call denominations inside of the Christian church, you know, and there's a lot of little nuances for each one of those. These do this and those don't do that and vice versa or whatever. I think.

I think because I didn't necessarily know the rules, like, my wife grew up in church, right? She was. She was. She came from very clear denomination, and this is what they do. And they were labeled and all the things or whatever.

And she's like, there's probably a little bit more of a freedom for me, because I don't. I didn't know those rules. And what I.

But what I did know was Jesus, and I read his Word because I read his Bible, I read the Scriptures and I read what he said and I read Watch what he did. And that's where I fell in love. I didn't fall in love with the denomination or a particular set of rules.

I fell in love with him and who he was and who he calls me to be. And so that's where I am, like, you know, above him. Yeah, I'm a Christ follower. I love Jesus. That's it. I mean, I don't have a. I'm not a.

I don't have any kind of stamp from some kind of denomination.

Matt Gilhooly
00:29:58

Well, and nor do you need one.

I just curious because I think if someone in your circumstance comes through this experience in that way, and it wasn't necessarily like I was born into it and I just kind of go through the motions. Like this gives you a true calling feeling, immersion into whatever you want.

It's not like, oh, well, I have to go this way, you know, Like, I feels like it gives you a little bit more freedom and a little bit more sense of really attaching yourself to something meaningful to you specifically. And not because we grew up in it or whatever. Maybe like I grew up going to a Catholic church, you know, and it was just like, why am I standing?

Why am I sitting? Why am I. You know, again, it was a lot of. A lot of those motions where I didn't really feel it.

But it sounds like you were able to find a space where everything was meaningful to you in a way that you wanted it to be meaningful.

Chris Graebe
00:30:52

Yeah, I mean, it just. It. You know, all I can say is I fell in love and met the Creator of the universe. And he.

He loved me and he changed me and he forgive me, he forgave me, and that was the. That was the part for me. It's just like I had. I was a pretty broken person who've done a lot of really bad things, you know, I mean, it's.

It's all relative. But it wasn't. I wasn't a beaking shining light of. Of morality, you know, And I just knew that I was broken. And I was like, hey. But he was.

But what was nice is his word tells me that he looked. That he loved me even. Even in that moment, even in the midst of my selfish, stupid decisions. He was like, I'm right here.

So when you're ready, like, going to welcome you, even if all you don't have to go get cleaned up and then come to me. Come to me, all you who are heavy laden, you know, heavy burden like, who are weary and I'll give you rest. And he did.

And for that, I owe him everything.

Matt Gilhooly
00:31:53

Right. Does that help you forgive yourself, too? Or is that, like. Is that a longer road?

Chris Graebe
00:32:00

Yeah, for sure. I.

Matt Gilhooly
00:32:03

Not to say that you have anything that you need to forgive yourself?

Chris Graebe
00:32:05

No, I mean, I don't necessarily. I think going back to what I talked about, sometimes, you know, people. Some people deal pretty deeply with shame.

You know, like, shame's a thing, and it's a real thing for a lot of people.

I think for the longest time, like, I had to go the opposite and really acknowledge, you know, going back to that confidence thing we talked about, you know, I could do anything, you know, and so I think I had a false sense of, you know, security, which played itself on times as arrogance or whatever. And so, like, I had to. I had to watch. So, like, I'm not really hard on myself, but I. But. But growing in all this made me realize, like, hey, you.

You need to be really cognizant of how you're treating the world around you and really be acknowledged and ready to humble yourself if you did mess up or if you have. And so I don't know. I'm kind of. I'm a. I'm a real futurist. Like, I like to live in the future. My wife is nostalgic. She likes to look back.

But one of the things we try to do is really, truly, like, live in the present and acknowledge, like, what happened today. How was today? Like, what. How. Where's our family right now? Are we busy? Are we in a good sweet spot? Like, how's our marriage?

And so all that to say is, like, if I get into a spot where it's like, oh, man, I've. I've been a little selfish or I've been focused on whatever I've been given too much to work and not up to my family, then.

Then, yeah, I need to go make amends to. To her, my kids, God, myself. And then. And then make sure that I'm. I'm growing and not finding myself there the next day.

Matt Gilhooly
00:33:34

It gives you probably a better awareness, too, of all the things and the things to be maybe the things to be aware of and to make sure that you're acknowledging and being okay with. And it also. Does it give you the ability to make mistakes and be okay with making those mistakes as long as you learn from and move forward?

Because I'm sure.

I mean, maybe you are perfect, but most of us aren't, you know, so when you do make mistakes, do you have this more freedom and awareness to move through it as a, a learning experience?

Chris Graebe
00:34:09

Yeah, I think, I think what's nice is anything that I do, hopefully the goal is, you know, the older you get, you know, like that my motive, it all comes down to my motive. And if I can, you know, if my, if I mess up but like I was trying to do something good, then it's like, okay, well that's, that's a bummer.

I'm sorry that happened.

I can, I can own and I can apologize, I can learn from it, you know, but you always got to just see, like, is there something that is ill motive, like something that's, that's driving the ship that I'm maybe blind to, that I don't understand that I got to go get some healing on, I gotta go find what's going on there.

And so if I could be self aware enough and to, and be honest with myself enough, then, then if my motive is, if my motive is wrong, then I, I'm gonna have to check that and really repent there.

But if like I'm trying to do something good, shoot, I messed up or whatever, I was going too fast or whatever, then I'm not as hard on myself because like, I know my motive was good, but if my motive's bad and I, and I failed and I'm, I need to, I'm going to feel that a little bit more and really try and be remorseful and fix it so it doesn't happen again.

Matt Gilhooly
00:35:25

Do you attribute a lot of that to your faith or is that more of a character not related to.

Chris Graebe
00:35:31

I think it's, I mean, you know, I live my life in a way that I hope I live my life in a way. I try to live my life in a way that like I'm gonna have to one day sit down. You would talk about bringing tears.

I'm gonna sit down across from Jesus and we're gonna talk about my life, the life that I lived, the one life that he gave me. And I'm gonna have to give an account for that. I have to give account.

The way I spoke to my wife when no one was looking, the way I treated my daughters. You know, set the example of what a man looks like for them. You know, who I was when no one else was around.

You know, a lot of times I think about our secret life.

You know, throughout scriptures, there's different, there's different verses that talk about the secret life, that our secret life will be brought to life and I brought to light and I just, I don't want to have a secret life that doesn't, that anybody in the world can't see outside of maybe a secret life of serving and giving that I don't tell the world that it happens. You know, that if I'm, if I'm going to bless somebody, it's no, you're not done that. You're not doing it on a pedestal out for the world.

You're doing it in the, you're not letting your left hand know what your right hand's doing because it's not about self praise or whatever. And so.

Yeah, so for me, I think one day I'm going to have to give an account and I take that just really serious and try as best I can to live out the life that I can be proud of that moment someday.

Matt Gilhooly
00:37:03

Yeah.

Do you feel that that's a, do you think it's a challenge in today's society where I feel like a lot of people in society are quite performative in a sense of like there is probably a secret life of things and then there's this maybe this. Yeah. Performance essentially that they're showing to the world because they expect the world wants this of them.

Do you find it hard to live in your truth and all those pieces with some of the performative nature of society around you or no skin off your back kind of thing?

Chris Graebe
00:37:41

Yeah, I mean it's, you know, I think the younger me really, really struggled with it. I think, you know, well, that was your job. You were like. It was, it's true.

But you know, but now it's like, okay, so I'm, you know, I'm, I live in, I live in a town that has, I live in Franklin, Tennessee. There's a lot of influencers here and authors and entrepreneurs and a lot of that stuff.

So like, so for me, like when I'm like looking for a group of friends, I just want somebody who's an accountant and like they're not trying to write a book or build, build a thing. You know, they just, they're just trying to do their job and love their family well. And so.

Yeah, so I think, I think for me, I don't know, I, I don't, I'm not an old curmudgeon. It's like, oh man, people these days just like, I understand what social media is, but I understand the dangers of it.

And so that's why, that's why I really don't post on social media, you know, like.

And I think the unfortunate thing about our life and world is like the people that we probably want to hear from the most, the people that have the most wisdom, the ones that we could sit at their feet and go, oh my gosh, that's so good.

They're probably, they probably don't have a social media account and they're, they're the ones that, that we really want to hear from, but they're just busy about doing the work in their town or in their community.

And, And I'm not saying that everybody who has a voice and has a book and has an influence and has an audience isn't doing good, because there's definitely some of that. But I think for me, like, like I said, when I hit that moment where I had nothing left to prove, that's when ultimate peace came to me.

Because I think if sometimes we were trying to prove to who knows who, maybe our younger self or a parent in the back of our head or whatever it is, you know, and so it's like, so like, if we can just have ultimate freedom there to go, like, I'm not going to be perfect and that's okay, but I'm going to give it. I'm going to give it a damn good shot here. I'm going to go for it. And so that's.

Anyway, I don't know if I fully answer your question, but that's where I sit.

Matt Gilhooly
00:39:49

Part of me thinks if you have. I don't want to say the answers, but if you have the way that you feel is working in your life, things feel good.

You're living in your purpose and all the, you know, I could imagine there could be. I don't, I don't know if there is but a pull to want to help others. Get to how you feel. And then.

And you know, kind of thinking of all those people that are out there, you're like, it would stress me out that I wouldn't be able to help them.

Chris Graebe
00:40:19

Yeah, yeah.

Matt Gilhooly
00:40:19

Do you have any of those feelings or is that just not part.

Chris Graebe
00:40:22

You don't.

Matt Gilhooly
00:40:22

It's not your job to help them. They need to.

Chris Graebe
00:40:25

No, I mean their space. My favorite thing to do. And this happens quite a bit. And I, and I do wrestle. This is a wrestle that I have.

Is that when someone calls me, when usually I'll get a guy that calls me. Maybe he's a guy or I haven't talked to in five years and he's just like, hey, man, can we talk? Like, yeah, sure. And we have some.

He's got something going on his life. Either he made a poor Decision, or he's wrestling with something or whatever and he just needs somebody to talk to.

Those are some of my favorite conversations because like I said, the only people they're going to hear are me, him and God. Like, you know, it's not, I'm not recording it. I'm not putting on social. I'm not doing that stuff.

And so, you know, I once had a guy go, man, Chris, like, you have so many of these conversations, like, you should really start charging people to like, coach them or whatever.

And I was like, man, if I started charging people, it loses its, it's mystique and it's like power that's there where you're just like, hey, I just want to serve you and I'm going to serve you and no one's ever going to know about it except for you, me, and whoever else you decide to share with. And so that's cool. But I do wrestle. Like, like I said, I mean, I shared a little bit off the jump of the call.

Like, you know, one of the big shifts I did in my life was I left my full time job at 37 years old with five kids.

I mean, like, if there is a dad out there close to that age with kids and a wife and a mortgage and whatever, like, literally their heart just fell out of their chest. It's like, it's like you did, you did what? Yeah, and so, but I've taken a lot of jumps in my life and some of them were stupid, but you learned.

And, you know, luckily I have a bride who's, who's down for the adventure and she's seen me win enough to go, okay, we can, we can take the next leap because you've won enough here that maybe you could, you could do it again over there. And you know, you grow from it. Hopefully you grow and you learn. But anyway, yeah, that's, I want to help.

I just wrestle with how and how does that scale?

Matt Gilhooly
00:42:30

How does it scale, but also how does it stay true? How does it stay, you know, in a place that serves you in an effective way too?

Because I think we're also taught to like, you should monitor, like you said, you should monetize all these things. And you're like, but that's, that's going to take away from the value that you get as someone that's listening and offering an ear.

Sometimes people just need someone to listen to them because no one else is listening. Right. Or they think no one else is listening.

Chris Graebe
00:43:00

I should probably say, yeah, yeah, you know, it's one of the coolest things that I. That God gave me years ago. And maybe it wasn't even me, so maybe I heard it from somebody else or whatever. But one of the greatest questions I.

I love to ask people who are wrestling with something and this may be helpful for your audience, is I like to like to kind of. They go, hey. And they'll come to me, and I'm dealing with this, this, this, this, and this. And this is the situation. They'll paint it out.

They'll paint the scenario. It's a job. It's whatever it is. Should we move? Whatever. Whatever it is. And it's. If they have a kid, I'm like, how old's your kid?

They're like 5, 7, 15, whatever. Okay, well, let's just to say than 20 or 30 years. Your kid comes to you and they go, dad, I need your help. I'm really struggling.

And they paint the entire picture, like, verbatim of your scenario. And then they look at you and he'd say, dad, what should I do?

Instantaneously, people know what they would tell their kid, what they would tell their kid, not. Not what they would tell themselves, but what they would tell their kid. And then I just look at them and go, well, then you know what you need to do.

And it's just like light bulbs and like, clarity and sometimes just being framed, just stepping out of it, just briefly to be able to look at it with. With like. Because what does somebody want for their kid? They want nothing but the best for their kid. They want.

They want their kid to, like, be thriving and. And have the best life. And they don't want him to be in any pain or whatever. And so. So that was one of those pieces that I.

I shared with the guy one time, and I've just. I've gotten to share that with so many people. And I was talking to a guy a week ago. He's talking about a business deal.

And I was like, well, his daughter was sitting right there at dinner. And I said, what would you. What would you tell her? And he's like, I tell her to run. I was like, well, then you better run, bro.

You better start running.

Matt Gilhooly
00:44:55

Is that why you chose to be an angel investor? Because it's a little bit. Not as. Maybe as flashy as a venture capitalist or someone, you know, like, is there a reason that you went that route?

Chris Graebe
00:45:10

Yeah, I think, you know, for me, man, I love to just. I'm a creator, I'm a visionary, I'm futurists. Like, I said, like, and you know, startups doesn't get much more of all of that baked into one.

Matt Gilhooly
00:45:23

Right. And people are excited.

Chris Graebe
00:45:24

Oh, it's exciting. It's like this could change the world or it could completely flop. And so there's, there's, there's some of that in there. Right.

So for me, what I kind of, what I do is like I said, I come from small town Indiana. Like I have a newsletter of people that I bring along with me.

Like they subscribe and I go find these deals and I invest in them and then they invest right alongside me. And so for venture capitalism, that is very much for the wealthy and the elite. Like it is not for the everyday investor.

But for me, I'm trying to go find the deals that are great deals that I can invest in and that other everyday investors can invest alongside me so that when the story is told, when the IPO happens or the exit or the big returns, that it's not just another fat cat, VC getting fatter. It's for the people. And so that's, it's kind of trying to be, I guess I'm trying to be Robin Hood for the people, man.

Matt Gilhooly
00:46:27

Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like this grassroots kind of thing, like with the leader running, you know, you're finding the things, you're helping people, but you're also helping those that want to help others but can't. In quote, unquote, big ways. Right. Or big financial ways.

Chris Graebe
00:46:46

Right. For sure.

Matt Gilhooly
00:46:47

But being able to be a part of your circle essentially allows them to contribute to the greater good in whatever capacity they can.

Chris Graebe
00:46:57

Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the deal is like, what's cool is like I try to find deals that have low minimums for people to invest in.

So like there was a, there was a, there was a, there was a legislation that passed in 2016 called the Jobs act that made it possible now for the first time since the Great Depression, for everybody to invest in startups. Anybody 18 or older, 18 years or older.

So when I find startups, I make sure that both accredited and non accredited people can invest in these deals, sometimes for as little as a couple hundred bucks. And that's, so that's, that's what I'm, that's what I'm on the hunt, man.

I'm just on the hunt trying to find great deals, great founders, great stories that are, that are ultimately trying because I mean, VC has been in control for the longest time and I think there is a shift happening, a big shift happening in the world of of startups that I think they're going. I don't want to give up a board seat and give all of my company away.

I want to bring the people in here and I want them to have, you know, one, they become brand ambassadors, and two, I don't have to give up half of my company. I can still give up a reasonable amount of equity. And also now the people are along the ride for, with, with them.

And that's, that's the exciting part.

Matt Gilhooly
00:48:13

Are there certain types of companies that you look for or certain types of startups? I look for all kinds that align with you or.

Chris Graebe
00:48:20

No, I look for all kinds. I mean, people. People will ask me, you know, like, oh, these all Christian companies. And like, no, I mean, these are all.

I just look for great founders who are doing great things that have great data. You know, you can be a great person but not have a great company.

And I'm not going to invest in that company, you know, so I want to make sure that the numbers and the data and all the information.

I have analysts that walk alongside me that ask all the really important, you know, money, all the, all the inner workings and the, you know, the debt and all the things you have. I have analysts that come alongside me that really go hard there. But for me, it's more of like, it's a gut call. It's what I see.

It's what I'm listening to, you know, like, if a founder is not humble, I don't want any part of him because, you know, you know, you can, you can have a level of confidence. I'll take that.

But arrogance and pride, you're gonna make, you're gonna make bad decisions, you're probably gonna lose my money, and you're gonna lose the money of anybody else invested. So, like, I really am strategic on trying to find great, great founders.

Matt Gilhooly
00:49:22

Was this the jump that you made, Jump into this or was this.

Chris Graebe
00:49:25

Oh, man, it was one of them. I mean, so I was a past really long time. So I was a pastor for 10 years. And while I was a pastor, I.

Matt Gilhooly
00:49:34

Was like, from road rules to pastor.

Chris Graebe
00:49:36

It really was. Yeah, in the middle of it, man, I was. I was a yo yo guy that went around the world doing yo yo performances at schools for kids.

I'm telling you, man, I've lived a Forrest Gump type life. So. So I was a pastor. And while I was a pastor, I was like, man, I don't make a lot of money. Pastors don't make a lot of money. And which is fine.

I'M not saying pastors need to make a lot of money. So I was like, okay, what can I do? And this was 2014, 2015, and I decided to start an Amazon business on the side at night.

Like, and I had tried to start a bunch of things. You know, I was a serial starter. I'm sure a lot of people listening are probably serial starters as well. But I wasn't great at finishing.

And so this time I decided, like, I'm going to finish this. And the reason I picked Amazon is because as a pastor, people get a little weird when your pastor's got another job.

Like, if he's, he's power washing the neighbor's house next to you, he's like, why are you doing that? You know, it's like.

So I decided to pick Amazon because the only place, like when you go buy an oven mitt off of Amazon, you have no clue who owns it. You just go, cool. It has five stars and it's cute. Great, I'm going to go buy that.

So I decided I'm going to start Amazon because the only place my name was was on the owner's document, the bank statements. And so I jumped out and I did it and it was really successful.

And I saw, I wrestled with, I was like, okay, now I got this full time job, but I've also got this like, Amazon thing that's like taking off. It's my first taste of success. And I was like, okay. Like, it gave me the confidence to go, okay, I can do this.

I don't know if this is what I'm going to continue to do, but I had, I had all kind of plans. I wanted to podcast, I wanted to write, I wanted to speak, I wanted to host like you talked about with Carson Daly.

I wanted to try my hand, but I KNEW I was 27 years old or I was 37 years old. And I knew, like, the window is closing. Like the window of like, hey, you can do this. Jump out.

And like, you know, like, I didn't have kids in college yet. I didn't have, like. So it was like, if you're gonna make a move like this, you gotta do it.

And I had gained enough confidence and my wife had gained enough confidence through the success we had in Amazon that was like, okay, let's do this. And so I jumped out, met some guys that had like an online education thing. I started teaching people how to do Amazon, Shopify.

But that was right when YouTube was starting to kind of really blow up and, and people were just posting free stuff Online. So I was like, oh, well, you know, it's like, you want to learn how to do Amazon? Like someone can just show you for free.

No one's going to pay for a course. And so these guys are mentors of mine, were already doing angel investing. They're like, hey, there's some new laws that just opened up.

Like, we think there's something here. And I was like, okay. And so I just dove in. I was like, now I was an entrepreneur myself. I understood business, understood all that or whatever. And.

But with their mentorship, they're like, well, we're investing in startups. I was like, okay, well, teach me.

And then I kind of, next thing, you know, kind of the, those guys were doing some other stuff and I just kind of learned everything I could and went deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole. And next, you know, I'm one of the leading experts in the world of equity crowdfunding.

Matt Gilhooly
00:52:41

It's, I mean, it's awesome. It's like this, that confidence that your five foot tall mom instilled in you is like, serve some purposes along the way.

Maybe, you know, got you in some, maybe little trouble early on, but tons.

Chris Graebe
00:52:55

But you know, yeah.

Matt Gilhooly
00:52:56

It's good though.

Chris Graebe
00:52:57

I mean, oh, for sure, for sure.

Matt Gilhooly
00:52:59

That's something.

I, I just think of my own young version of myself and I think my dad probably tried to instill confidence in me, but there was so much fear because of my own trauma that he was going to leave me if I wasn't perfect and those kind of things. And I'm like, what if I had someone that had instilled all the, what would I have done and not waited until I was 30 to be like, who cares?

Let's do whatever we want, you know, like move into that space. I love that you took the leap. It sounds like it was an educated leap. It wasn't like quit everything and run to the mountains and do whatever.

But, you know, you kind of proved it along the way and then took your chance.

Chris Graebe
00:53:38

It was a little, you know, it was a little less educated than it probably should have been. You know, I ultimately think about it. I'm like, you know, if there ever come a day or a season where I go, okay, let me teach folks how to do this.

Like, how do you, how do you do this? Like, if I was gonna go back and go, okay, five kids, full time job, would I, would I done it the way I did it?

Probably not, but what, but, but it doesn't. You don't know, right? You don't know until you do it. And I'm like, okay, I think I could help people figure out how to take that jump now.

And I could really map a map a course for them to go. Like, this is the way. This is the path. This is what I would say. You do this and then you do this and you do this and so.

But for me, you know, it's like sometimes you take kind of the semi dumb. It doesn't understand what he's doing. Like, and a wife who's trusting enough and faith in, you know, obviously, my God, that I'm like, okay.

But, you know, also understand hard work, diligence, like sacrifice. You gotta, you can't just go, oh, it's all just gonna be handed to me. It's like. And comes out a lot of hard work. And so I think I found.

Matt Gilhooly
00:54:40

But you had proven, yeah, you had proven time and time again for 37 years that you could try new things, you could learn from things that didn't work out, you know?

So I think, I mean, from the outside perspective, it seems like you at least dipped your toe in the water to test things out, to make sure that things were going to be like, okay. It wasn't.

Chris Graebe
00:54:59

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I knew, like, I knew for me, I was like, okay, if I take this ride, it doesn't work. What am I going to do? I can go get a job.

I go get a job again. Like, you know, it's like, okay.

But I didn't ever want to live with, you know, one of the things I often say is like, which, what if are you willing to live with? So, like, do you want to live with the what if I would have tried that someday and you never did it? Do you.

Are you okay to live with that for the rest of your life? Or is it. What if I would have stayed in that job? Man, that, that would have been crazy. But now, you know, you're on the other side of it.

You, you know, which. What if you. You want to live with?

Matt Gilhooly
00:55:38

And even if it didn't work out.

Chris Graebe
00:55:39

Now, you know, oh, yeah, I would, I would. I would have been like, sweet. I mean, I gave it a ride.

I had a buddy of mine who, who he was kind of jumping around the same time out of his career, and he was in the corporate world and he was like. And a little part of me grieved for him because he would, he would go to the corporate world, make a ton of money, maybe get laid off.

And it's like, okay, I'm an Entrepreneur again. And he would try the entrepreneur thing. And then he came to me one day. He was like, man, he's like, I got to acknowledge something.

I was like, what is it? He's like, I'm not an entrepreneur. I was like, what do you mean, man? And part of me was like, no, don't let the dream die or whatever.

But he's like, I have to look at what people are paying me for. People are paying me a lot of money, like significant hundreds of thousands of dollars to do this thing over here. And they keep doing it.

So that tells me that that's where my value is and that's where they want me, and that's where the market's telling me they want me. And it's not an entrepreneurship because I can't get a thing off the ground. I'm like, man, that's some self awareness. Right?

But there was like, there was a piece of him that died a little bit that day, but he did also. There's a piece of him that found peace because he knew, okay, this is what I'm. This is what I'm great at.

Matt Gilhooly
00:56:49

Right. Stop running away from it. Yeah, you run towards it. No, I mean, I just, I love that you took this chance and now you're.

Because you took that chance, you're now able to serve people in a different way. You can serve fulfilling dreams for people in a different way. I'm sure I.

I was saying that, and then I realized you were a pastor, so you were fulfilling. You were helping people in that way, but now you're doing it in a different way.

Chris Graebe
00:57:16

Sure. It was a different environment, though. It was my job. Right. It's. It's. It was. Which was fine. I really enjoyed that. But, yeah, I mean, it was still.

There were still some limitations to it, for sure.

Matt Gilhooly
00:57:26

Yeah.

And then I think of you saying, you know, like, you were that young kid who was afraid of being stuck in something, and now I'm like, are you okay being stuck in, you know, in this world? Because you're. Every choice that you make is a little different. Right.

I imagine as an angel investor, the different companies you come across, the research you do is. It's different on a regular basis.

Chris Graebe
00:57:51

Yeah, it's. You know, what's interesting is I think, you know, one of the things I've learned is the more.

Because, you know, I'm like, I'm going to go be part of that conference over there, and I'm going to do this thing over here. We're going to write, you know, it's like, man, like, okay, my wife and I are writing books, and we have a podcast, and I've got.

I'm an angel investor, and I'm. I'm speaking at this conference. You know, you just go, okay, okay. So my word this year is focus. And, like, really trying to lean in to go.

Like, what if you just did stay in this lane? Like, you're already doing some pretty amazing things in this lane, but, like, what if you just really stay.

Like, you just tightened it up even more and where it. You're almost sticking yourself on purpose to get stuck, but you know what I'm saying?

But the opportunity for growth and scale and impact even grows greater when your focus is 100% locked in on this thing over here. And so that's what I'm doing. That's where I'm at. That's what I'm focused on.

Matt Gilhooly
00:58:48

From this stranger's perspective, everything that you're doing is in service of helping others.

Whether that's the book, whether that's the podcast, whether that's the angel investing, whether that's just listening to your friends that give you a call.