A Lasting Legacy: A Father's Advice and How it Changed One Man's Life | Matt Drinkhahn

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This week's episode is sponsored by Traci and Emily and Miki. Thank you for sponsoring the show through the Patreon page. If you're interested in getting some bonus episodes or early release and add free episodes, head on over to the Patreon page. It is www.patreon.com forward slash the life shift podcast. So thank you so much for your support. Here's this week's episode. I know I was reawakened by this legacy of dad.

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And moving forward in the future, you asked about emotional intelligence, Matt, I can say I didn't really have much of it. I was able to read people very, very well. I was good at sales, I was good at business, but being able to feel, process emotion was not a strength. I could read the room well. I didn't process things. I just buried them. On this week's episode, I speak with a connection Matt Drinkhahn. You may remember that name from...

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the Eternal Optimist podcast, which I was a guest on a few months ago. And after that recording, Matt and I kept in touch and he said that he wanted to come on and share a moment in his life that changed everything. And what was interesting about this conversation is that I think we went into the conversation with a little bit different of an expectation about what we were going to center the conversation on or where it was really going to be triggered. And I really enjoyed

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what resulted from that conversation because early in the conversation, Matt mentioned a moment that I was unaware of and we really stuck to how that moment shaped everything moving forward. I think a lot of you will connect to Matt's story and how something that his father instilled in him as a child continues to permeate through everything that he does in his life. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Matt Drinkhahn.

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I'm Matt Gilhooly, and this is the Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

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Hello, my friends. Welcome to the LifeShift Podcast. I am here with a new friend, Matt. Hey, Matt. Hey, what's up, Matt? How you doing, brother? It's good to see you again. And for those of you listening, I was recently on Matt's podcast, The Eternal Optimist, and we had a great chat on your show. Thank you for having me on that. Absolute pleasure. And I tell you, Matt, you really taught me something there. You taught me about the value of a divergent thinking.

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your opinion and the way that you view the world is like completely different than me. And we have a same like core value of gratitude. And it was amazing to just to see that you're seeking that feeling, that authentic connection and feeling, whatever that feeling might be in the moment. I'm seeking achievement or legacy of some kind. And we both have our ways of going about it and doing it for the good of people through gratitude, just different lenses. And I appreciate that about you.

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It was a good chat. I like that you just pointed out feeling, because that's what the LifeShift podcast is all about. I really want to just dig into the human experience. And even though we all have quite different journeys, what I'm finding in all of these conversations is that there's a lot more in common that we have through these experiences and the way we react to them. And I know that you have.

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a few moments in your life that the before and after were quite different. The experiences changed you in a way. And before we kind of divulge what those events were in your life, I'm wondering if you can give us a little bit of information about you. Like you can tell us a little bit of what you do now, but also kind of what life was like before that first main area that you want to cover today.

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Well, thank you for giving me the microphone to share part of the story. And I would say first that I grew up in a military family. That's a defining part of my past is my dad was in the air force. My mom was an English school teacher when they met and had me three years later. I ended up having a stay at home mom who helped raise me. My dad was at work much of the time from sunup to sundown for five or six days a week for my entire life. And I was at home. We moved.

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17 times in 21 years all throughout the United States including several high schools and several moves at very pivotal times in life as a preteen teenager. I was always a little bit taller than everyone else. I always was a little bit skinnier. I had giant braces in my mouth. I had this giant magnet in my mouth that felt like for five and a half years from fifth to tenth grade. Overachiever there.

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Oh yeah, oh yeah. My first kiss was with someone and she also had braces and I can dispel the myth, we did not get stuck. Oh, that's good. That would be a pivotal moment to share for sure. That would have been pivotal. I grew up playing sports, every sport imaginable. I had a thrill of reading and I'm actually pleased to share right now that my seven-year-old daughter is reading the Chronicles of Narnia for the first time and that was big for me when I was seven years old.

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picking that up. That's a big chapter book. Yes, it is. Got nine chapters and she's in chapter three already and loving it. And so that's a positive moment. Schoolwork and grades, always important. Sports important. Had a girlfriend or two in high school. That was important. Those are a couple of defining things growing up. I have dad who was very regimented and disciplined, as you can imagine, being in the military. I had a mom who was

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you know, a southern sweetheart and would, could never walk into a room and have a stranger around. So, I have the gift of gab from mom and the discipline from dad. And both of them armed me with great, I'd say a strong moral compass and values. So I really had, I'd say it was an amazing childhood. I mean, there were some difficult moments, but overall I tend to look at the things that were very positive. And there were quite a number of them. I'm very grateful.

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I can relate to, well, none of that, but I can relate to the moving quite often. I think I'm up to 35 times in my life right now, which is just shy of my age. I can relate to moving to many different schools throughout elementary school and then moving to another state in the rest of elementary school and then moving to another state for middle school and jumping to different high schools. So I can relate to that. And the formative.

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I think that builds character in a sense, if you can approach it appropriately, right? By if you're switching schools at these pivotal moments in high school, that's teaching you a lot, right? Because you're starting over every time. I mean, these are some real pivotal moments. One very pivotal moment came when there were five moves, the last five moves I had, one of them that was very challenging that you talk about before and after.

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I feel that I was a before and after on this day was a pivotal moment. It was in seventh grade. We were halfway through seventh grade living in Fort Worth, Texas. And we moved to upstate New York to Rome, New York, Griffith Air Force Base. And then I went to Staley Junior High School, that first day of new semester in January in the seventh grade. And I remember the first day.

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It's always a different experience at every school that I went to. It was never a really bad experience, I would say. I was nervous many times, but it was never bad until this day. It was a day that left me crying. It was a highly emotional day, and it all stems to one exact moment. I remember, have you ever seen that movie? Forrest Gump? Sure, everyone's seen that, right? The scene he gets on the bus.

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Everyone says, seats taken. Well, I went to the lunchroom that first day in seventh grade and I normally associate or identify with like the basketball players. And I saw the table of the people that looked like basketball players. So I went over there to sit at the table and there was a person there. I will say his name was Steve and I walk over there and I'm getting ready to sit down and he moves his tray over and says, you can't sit here.

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and I did not know how to respond. That had never happened to me, and I did not know how to respond to that. So I continued to walk, and inside, I can already feel some emotion or some lack of confidence, some uncertainty welling up inside of me. And it was, I could feel that I was actually, as a boy, as a seventh grade boy, the way that I was raised and in my background, I was taught that you don't cry, you don't show emotion.

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in public, especially for something like this. And I could feel there was something welling up inside of me. So I went with my cafeteria tray of food, I went into the hallway, and then I went down the hall to the bathroom, and I pulled up into a stall, and I had my lunch in a bathroom stall. And that was the only time that it ever happened. I feel that in that moment in the bathroom stall, having lunch, I felt really alone. I felt...

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very, very challenged. This is the first time I can recall in my entire life where there was any motion, where I actually cried right there in the bathroom stall. It was not a really loud cry so that it would attract attention, it was kind of to myself, but it was me in a corner feeling like a small, alone child and it was very painful. And I finished the lunch, wiped away the tears, and went back to second half of the day. Well, somehow I managed to get home.

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without being found out, even though I felt like the eyes were on me and I felt like a real outsider for the rest of that day. It was very painful. I still remember that feeling. Is this kind of like when you're at a low point? Is this ever going to end? How do I actually make it out of this? Because it was just such a... It was tough. So, I get home. My mom could tell something is wrong. Like the second that I see her, I lose it. I'm crying.

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when I get home and sharing with her. And she's consoling and loving and empathetic. But when dad gets home, and this is the part that the before and after part, this is where the after part starts to shift and the pivotal moment occurs. I'd already felt the pain of the moment of when it happened and the follow through on that to this moment. But when dad gets home, sits down with me on the couch and he asked me a question, he said, "'Son, so now that that happened, "'what are you gonna do about it?' "'Cause

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a lot of tough things are gonna happen in your life. What is it that you're gonna do and how you're gonna respond? That's gonna be the mark of, you know, how you bear that name Drink On. You know, and he connected me with how you show up in these hard moments with our legacy of our name and the lesson that I took away. And it was like almost instantaneously, you know, I made a decision that even though it did get to me and it was a painful moment, I made a decision that

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it's not gonna keep me down. And there's a reason why I stand up for all of the kids who might be the nerds or might get picked on. I used to be one of those kids, and now I'm a little bit bigger and athletic and no one kind of picks on me, but still I'm not immune to being a vulnerable teenage boy, you know, who's alone crying in the bathroom. But my father empowered me with something so special in that moment to show me that you can stand up to this and you can choose your attitude.

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whenever adversity strikes you. And I'm just so grateful that he taught me that, he shared that with me. I was 13 at that moment and that was such a great ammunition. So wherever dad is in heaven right now, just thanks dad, I love you. That was very pivotal. And I think a lot of people can relate to a moment of rejection in those, was that the first time you had experienced rejection in that way? Like where you just had the assumption that

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everyone was as welcoming as you or what your mom had taught you, you know, never a stranger kind of thing. Was that your first experience with rejection in that way? It's certainly the first experience I can remember actually shedding a tear over. I'm thinking about it now and actually I've got a little bit of something welling up in my right eye right now. Just thinking about it. Since

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My emotional intelligence training, been working really diligently on this for the past year since November, well, November 18th, 2021. I had a coaching session from Jim Dettmer around emotional intelligence. And then most recently, my HeartMath founder, Roland McCready was with me last week and coached me on this subject around how you show up and regulate yourself when these challenging things happen. This is the first instance I can remember

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in genuine pain and crying and rejected. And I can actually channel it now and think about it. And a tear comes, I'm grateful that a tear comes in my eye now because a couple of years ago, it would be just suppressed and keep it down in there in the dark place in the closet. Don't ever bring it up. Now, actually through meeting people like you who are in touch with their emotions and feelings at a much higher level than I've ever been, I'm learning how to process and feel it and let it be felt. So.

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Thank you. It is a good journey. I think what's interesting though about your story is that it's so relatable. You aren't the only person to have ever been rejected from the lunch table or being picked last in a sport. Maybe that wasn't you, but maybe that was some of us. Yeah, well hold on a second, being picked last. I don't know about that part, but yeah, you're right. You're right. It's so relatable. And everyone that's ever been on your show and probably everyone that's listening.

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has had some point where they face some epic rejection or failure or some challenge that was a pivotal moment and how you choose to deal with it from there or how you have been trained over time to think about these things, it's so important. So if this can provide any kind of inspiration or hope that someone like me, and if you need a picture of me, right, I'm about six, seven, I'm fairly athletic.

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I'm not the best looking person in the world, most people would say, but I overcome that with enthusiasm and positive energy, right? And maybe I'm biased, maybe I am good looking in my own mind. But the point being that whatever flaw or insecurity or challenge we have, we all have them and we all have these pivotal moments that we go through and just talking through it and working it out loud with someone like you, Matt, who has really helped me be in touch with it. It's so important.

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That's the relatable part for me, is that so many people keep it down inside. We would be remiss if we didn't talk about how your parents helped you with that moment, because I think that there that is something that I don't think is as relatable. I think that people that are of our age and our generation, because we're fairly close in age, I don't think we had. I think there's a lot of different approaches that may have happened here.

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I can picture friends of mine that would have gone home and one of two things would have happened. Either their parents would have like, you gotta fight back and you need to like literally fight and make that other person feel less than, or you need to man up and not be such a wimp. And you know, like, so there's that. So I think that you had what we could picture perfect experience in which

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you had the parents, your mom, to comfort you, and then your dad to instill confidence and perspective, I guess, in you to move forward. And it's funny because this was not part of our conversation or what we planned on talking about, but this very well could have triggered what you do throughout your life now because of what your dad said. Imagine him saying, man up, you know?

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go beat them up on the playground, go, you know, where would your life be? So I think there's something about parenting, which we'll talk about your parenting journey as well, but doing the right things or what feels right and instilling the values and the qualities that you want to see people perpetuate through their lives is so important. And I don't think that your experience is as relatable as I wish it was.

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I sense that you're right and I'm very grateful that I had parents that were so loving and helped me to build a strong self-esteem. I would go back one year before that. I even go back to when I was 12 years old about this fighting, for example. My dad gave me a piece of advice about fighting one day. He said to me that if you're ever in school, you're ever out somewhere and someone's picking on you or someone's trying to pick a fight, then don't hit first. We don't start fights.

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Right? So that's what he said to me. But then he also said this, if a group of people are picking on you, then you do start the fight and you hit the bully first. And I remember that because that happened to me in sixth grade, different school. I'm still in Texas before I moved to New York. I'm in Texas. And I remember there was a group of kids who corned me in the playground, literally in a circle. And I'm stuck in the middle. And one of them comes up to me and slaps me.

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And I remember what my dad said. He said, if you get trapped and it's a group, then hit the bully first. So I went right up to this guy that slapped me and I slugged him right in the face. And then I ran like the wind. And I think I probably ran around the entire track of the middle school there at like sub 52nd pace, maybe like world record pace. All of this leads up to what I would say may be the most pivotal moment in my life, but it's giving some color and backstory to the relationship with my dad and how much I respected him.

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There's definitely something to be said about the advice that a parent can give. I mean, having been bullied as a child, as a heavyset child that was just smart, wasn't good at sports. And there were many instances of bullying. Had a dead parent. So that was fodder for other kids to make fun of. And until I had the tools to fight back with words, that was really hurtful, right? And

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I remember an instance in high school in which I didn't get the advice that you got from your father. I didn't get bad advice. I just, I don't even know if I even mentioned it to my dad because I don't know that I, I don't know. I just didn't seek it, but I remember a group of high school guys from like the baseball team coming up to threaten me about whatever it was. I don't remember at this point, but I remember in that moment, I did not hit first.

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And I was like, do what you guys are gonna do. Because in my mind, if I didn't instigate that, there wasn't gonna be a fight. They didn't do anything. They walked away and said words because I think at the end of the day, they were waiting for me to start. But I know we're really stuck on this moment, but I feel like it is really important that you had a space or people to give you advice that will serve you moving forward, not just in that moment.

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And to your point, it will show us that journey with your father and the advice that he gave you early on and probably throughout your life, what that brought. So take us forward. It really set a standard that this series of conversations after challenge where he's taught me just through these anecdotal stories, here's what it means to be a drink on, here's what it means to be someone who stands up for others, here's what it means to be

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a strong leader, here's what it means to live with integrity. And I have my core values up here written right behind the webcam up on the wall on the corkboard. And these are the things that dad taught me through these challenging life circumstances. So again, I lucked out. I lucked out and had parents that really showed an interest and it helped build the self-esteem. And as a result of that, it leads us to where we are now where I feel empowered or called. My calling in life is to help others see that there's hope and they can do it too. And...

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in order to do that. I mean, I had to go through a lot of hard stuff, but they were there. So that colors where we go next in our conversation, but it's a very important relationship in my life growing up.

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I just keep thinking back to like my childhood. I don't know if I would have, like did you, when your dad would give you those pieces of advice, did you take those? Did you internalize them or did you feel pressured to live up to the name? Did you feel all that or did you buy in? I would say that I was drinking the Kool-Aid. I didn't feel a pressure to buy in. I really wanted to live up to the standard. It wasn't pressure to get the grades.

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or pressure to do well in sports, or pressure to keep my shirt tucked in, or to look neat, or to have good manners. No, that wasn't the pressure at all. That was the way I wanted to be. I wanted to live to a certain standard. It wasn't forced on me. It was more one that I saw someone role modeling it, and I wanted to be like that person. So it was, whatever they did, whatever he did, he modeled it, and I picked up most of him.

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And a lot of I identify with that very much. I mean, I look just like him. And I picked up the social gene from mom. Thank goodness, that was a little bit introverted. And I'm somewhat introverted, but it's still OK to talk. But yeah, I took a lot of a lot of notes. And I wanted to be like like my dad. So you had a role model or you had role models, right? You had your mom and your dad. But your dad was was giving you life advice to kind of move forward. So let's move forward. I mean, I guess.

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to your probably your next pivotal moment. What was that? What did that life look like right before and kind of what happened? Well, there's a very important detail that I'd like to take a minute to share before the exact moment of clarity. And it came up to Memorial Day weekend of 2005. And I had lived away from my parents and their home since I went away.

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and graduated from college. I graduated from college in 99, and for the six years after that, I was away. And that would be a kind way of putting it. I was not the best son. This is right when cell phones are coming out, when email is starting to get used. No one in my family is using email really yet. I'm getting my first cell phone, there's no texting, or I'm not using texting that much yet. So I'm actually not in touch with my parents that much at all.

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We don't talk a whole lot, meaning that I don't practically call them very often. You're just living life as a 20-something year old. Yeah, well, I was used to moving all over the place with them growing up. And like you, I just kept moving. So since college, I've moved a total of 19 times. So put those together and I'm up there with you and I've moved 30-something times. Right? So I've been away for some time.

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We've not had many face-to-face conversations over the past six years since I graduated. I come home to play in a golf tournament for three days with my dad over Memorial Day weekend. And we hadn't chatted in some time. The last time that we did chat, before this, I had shared with him something, a personal detail that I regret sharing it at the time. But what had happened is I'd gotten a bonus check.

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in my career when I was doing, and it was my biggest check of my life at that moment. And I called dad and I shared with him that I got a big check and I just wanted to celebrate. And he congratulated me and he said, well, be careful son, don't drink and drive. And I, feeling very confident like I was, I made the mistake. I said, yeah, I don't drink and drive, dad. I could tell you what I do, but I don't think you'd approve. And I shouldn't have said that, but I did. And then he said, what did you mean? And I said, well, I don't drink and drive, but I've...

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I smoked pot. That was something that was a staunch no-no in my family. I never saw that or experienced any of that before my senior year in college, right? So I said that and the conversation ended within a minute from there and we didn't talk for months. Well, come to find out. Now I'm gonna go play in this golf tournament. We get there together and maybe I'm a little bit stubborn. And I know he was a little bit stubborn too. God bless him.

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So the two of us come together and the most amazing thing happened, Matt, is we were able to talk and communicate and clear the air about so much. And any chips on the shoulder, anything we'd bring up that was buried underneath the surface, we brought it all up right there in the first day before we ever even teed off the golf tournament. And in like a three hour span, we cleared the deck and it was such an amazing three day golf tournament. And we finished one shot back of winning it. Ah, so we were so close.

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And it was pretty amazing. But I think you won in a different way. You won in the clearing the deck way. Yeah, we cleared the deck and we almost won the tournament too. I mean, I was on cloud nine. And this is in Warner Robins, Georgia, down on Memorial Day 2005. And I'm living in Atlanta at the time. So we go back to the house, my mom and dad's house. We finish up dinner and chatting that night. And I need to go back so I can go.

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to my job to work on Monday or on Tuesday. So I drive back on Memorial Day evening. And then the next morning at 7.04 a.m. I get a phone call and I look down and I see that I missed the call on my cell phone, which is odd because I don't get a whole lot of calls on the cell phone from mom. And it's 7.06 a.m. is the call that changed everything. And then I called mom back.

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and she's got something underneath her voice that's hard to pinpoint. She says, Matthew, your father just died. Come down here. And she said that like instantly. It's like the lens shifted. It's like, you know, you put on sunglasses and everything looks a little bit different depending on what lens is in front of your eyes. And my entire lens.

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shifted at that exact moment. I don't know if you call it shock. I don't know what you would call it. I know that that roughly 120 minute drive was about a 90 minute drive this time. I got down there and walked into the hospital and I saw his body lifeless there in the table and I hadn't processed it yet. I hadn't cried yet. I didn't really know what to feel yet. Just get home. Still, I don't believe this, but it is happening.

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And once I see his body, I just go into the state of utter shock and just pure emotion and just totally break down and lose it. And I was in that state for a while. That must have lasted for, I don't know, an hour. And it was kind of a blur from there. And the life shift moment, it had happened. I'd felt this emotion. And I went into a real depression and a downward spiral for the next six months where, you know, I probably abused alcohol and I just was really, really low for some time.

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I did have some positives that came from it. I did have a renewed relationship with my mother and we talked a little more often rather than once every number of months. We started to talk a couple of times a week, like multiple times a week. So that was a positive benefit. I was still low, just really, really depressed. And if I ever connect with the idea of depression, that was the time, the first time I can really point to being truly depressed about losing my...

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my idol, you know? Yeah, and I think there's a different shock value that comes with that experience because of the weekend that you had prior to that in which you had cleared the air, you had reconnected, you had your dad back, you had that relationship that you had growing up and everything, like you went home and it's like, I can't wait to do that again. Does any part of you think that that was...

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like his check mark, that was something that he needed to accomplish. You know, that was his final deed, if you will, to reconnect with you and have that weekend. And part of him was like, cool, this is what I needed to do.

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I think about this often if he'd have passed and we did not clear the air, then I may have some real, real challenges right now with the chip on my shoulder of some kind. And I do feel that some type of divine fate kind of came in there and said that we need to reconnect and we need to clear the air. And he had a perfect bill of health. I mean, his doctor, he passed his physical recently.

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He didn't have any challenges. And this was a tragic, kind of a freak accident that he passed away in his sleep with an aortic aneurysm. The answer question though, it was probably and is still to this day, the one thing that had we not cleared the air and he still passed away, I don't know how I would feel or what would happen. I don't know if I'd be the person I am today, if I'd have the courage or the confidence.

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I could be a shell of the person I am today. All this talk about attitude and positive mindset that's been testing me for years and I've stood up to that test and lived it. I don't know if I'd still be living that, Matt, if we'd not cleared the air. I'd say that the clear message that I so openly wanna share and communicate with everyone out there is that if there is some beef or some air that needs to be cleared with someone in your family, and here's the hard part, it may be someone that wronged you.

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And it may be a parent that was abusive to you, or it may be a sibling that cut you out and did something publicly, privately to you. If you have any idea of a reconciliation at some point, or you want to remove the chip from the shoulder, then my thought would be this, that somebody has to go first and leaders go first. And that's not easy. And it's the opposite of easy is what it is. It's incredibly difficult.

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And if you really want it, then I would encourage everyone to do it. Do it today. There's no better time than now to get this chip off the shoulder. Cause I've seen friends whose parents or whose siblings or whose business partners passed away and they did not clear the air and there were some, some stuff that was left unsettled and it eats away at them. So I guess that's, that's my response is.

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clear the air, my friends, I'm so glad we did. That was by far the worst day of my life. It changed everything, and I'm so grateful that we cleared the air in advance, and that I still have this amazing legacy to strive to live up to. I think it's good advice. I think that we as humans hold grudges, and also we're not promised tomorrow. And so if you think about both of those things, I lost my mom suddenly as well, and I was young, so there wasn't.

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I didn't have anything to clear, luckily. But I remember in my 20s, I had a disconnected relationship with her family and no longer spoke with them and connected with them, her mother and her twin brother specifically. And I remember always thinking, do I matter? Is there something going on? Should I do something? But I also felt that I did something for so long and never got.

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what I needed from those relationships. But as my grandmother got closer to the time that she was passing, when she got sick, I reconnected with them and, you know, said my piece, had those moments. They weren't easy conversations to your point. You know, clearing the air sometimes is really hard. And when you love someone unconditionally, but you have hard things to say, it's even harder, right? Because you're like, oh, I don't wanna...

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mess things up even more, but it's important. And for me, and hopefully for her, clearing that deck, like you said, with your father and clearing the deck in my experiences, made when she passed a lot better. I don't know, better is not the great word to use, but I think in your experience, you're right. I think that if you hadn't had that...

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who knows where you would be now. You probably wouldn't be doing what you're doing or living the life that you're living in some capacity because now you have the ability to be grateful for a hard experience because of the moments that you had with him that weekend before. It's like, you're like, at least we had that.

34:29
At least we had that. That's right. And I think about that weekend often anytime we drive down there. And I also think about that weekend in reference to a different perspective of being a father now. And my dad died at 58 and a half years of age. I'm 45 right now. If I live the same time span as him that might mean I've got 13 years. That might mean that my oldest daughter or youngest daughter is going to be around 17 if I were to pass at that age.

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Now, I'm praying to God that's not gonna happen that I pass by that time. I can share this, that everywhere I go, like on a vacation, on a business trip, I grab out my cell phone, my little cell phone stand, and I make videos sharing our values and sharing appreciation and love with the kids. Should something ever happen to me, my wife knows where to go in the iCloud to get these videos to give to her, to give to the kids.

35:28
So I'm documenting as we go along words of wisdom and things I want to share with the kids so that there is some memory or something that they can look to. I kind of liken it to when we were watching Superman, the movie growing up, and Marlon Brando played Jor-El, Superman's dad, and he created in that crystal fortress, all of the, you put the crystal in over here and there's a message on this subject, how you answer that question. Well, I'm creating a little compendium of answers to questions and values and gifting that to the kids.

35:57
I would call it a gift. I don't know what they'll call it one day. Well, hopefully they won't have to watch those anytime soon. Yeah, well, that's been inspired by dad, modeling something from him. So, so many things trace back to dad. And that moment of losing him early has caused me to actually put this into my coaching practice to coach a lot of high performance CEOs, leaders, and help them and their teams with culture and getting to that next level. And one of the challenges I see in a lot of owners in business is they have challenging with balance in their personal lives.

36:27
So I love to give out journals to all the dads I coach. You know, here's my gift to you, son. And it's a list of a bunch of things that a dad would journal to their son. I give them out to my female clients. Same thing, things that every child should know from their mother's perspective. All right, so these are the things that I think about all the time that date back to this moment when my life shifted. I think a lot of people can relate to...

36:57
the idea of finding that balance, especially those of us that have lost someone close. I think if you don't understand the sense of loss or sudden loss, it's a lot harder to value certain things in your life. And I'm assuming that your approach to life, because of this loss, you know, you even said it, you said your relationship with your mother significantly increased after those

37:25
Right? Like after you called her more, you connected with her more, because you knew that you might not have tomorrow with her, with anyone else. Do you relate to that feeling? Like you feel... Absolutely. Is that why eternal optimists exist? I believe so. I mean, I think back to the feeling of anything that happens, it's challenging. Is there to teach me something? And this taught me how to connect better with mom. Period.

37:53
And I couldn't know that in the moment it was happening and in that day, in the period when I was depressed after that, I wasn't there yet mentally in my journey. But since then, I've come to a place, through a lot more of this practice and through coaching others through it, where now we're able to take things, many times real time as they're happening, and ask myself, what's the learning lesson that this challenge is here to teach me right now? So we refine the practice. So now the stuff that you might consider hard.

38:19
I'm actually super curious about it and kind of not enjoying it like liking Something that's painful or something that is causing an emotion that's challenging It's simply able to observe it witness it let the feeling pass through me and appreciate the feeling for what it is So I think that is a cause-and-effect relationship I believe those challenges have now caused me to get a little bit wiser stronger tougher I have some some thicker skin and learn from these things early you said that like

38:49
just maybe a year or two ago, you started leaning into emotional intelligence a little bit more and vulnerability in a little bit more. What was that period, like when your father passed and you had this depression, if you will, were you allowing yourself to have those emotions? Were you pushing them away? What was that period of time until you found your way out of that darker period? What was that like for you? Because I know you,

39:18
You said it's more recent in which maybe your eyes might well up without shame. Yeah, that was a challenging time. That I remember. I remember when it started and I remember when it ended because it ended in a very specific conversation. So thank you for bringing this up. Cause it takes me back and causes me to smile and maybe cry, but it causes me to feel, and I remember that the day that he died, the day after Memorial Day, 2005. Until right around Thanksgiving. So, which is right around six months.

39:48
I was very depressed. I was very down. Did I allow myself to feel this? No, I masked it. I masked it quite well. I've been good at compartmentalizing emotions over time and really when I need to focus on work, go and get the work done. All right, so I did that for a few months in this job that I'd taken. You know, after I'd got out of my first company, I moved to Atlanta. I took a job for a little bit of time there. Then dad died a month into the job. And for the next few months afterwards, I still

40:18
and got the job done. But I masked it, my real emotions, my real feelings, with alcohol. And when I say with alcohol, I mean, we would have beverages just about every night. My beverage of choice was probably beer and a lot of it at the time. Maybe there was some liquor involved too. It's not exactly clear to me, everything that I did in that time. I wasn't ever blacked out. It wasn't like, I don't remember. It's just hazy,

40:46
I kind of put that part in the past. In order to get through that, those painful six months, I just leaned into my work and buried my head in the work. I had a really good friend at the time living with me. He had a girlfriend at the time as well. So having them around, they were really grounding for me, Scott and Erica, they're married now and they're some of my favorite people in the world. They were there, they were very supportive at the time. Scott was there at the moment that took the call from mom. So that next six months,

41:15
I'd say those two really helped me to, and nurse me back to health, I suppose. And I remember the very specific conversation when I shifted out of it. The very specific conversation right around Thanksgiving. I was talking to my mom and she had rummaging through the things and seeing all dad's stuff. She had come across his diary, come across his diary and she read it. And one of the things that she read is that he had one regret in his entire life, just one.

41:45
And that one regret was that he regretted that he didn't challenge me or push me to go after my dream playing pro golf and caddy for me on the pro tour. And when she said that, the first thought that came to my mind was, well, that's what I've got to do next then is make the pro golf tour and be a pro golfer. Cause that was always a dream. I hedged the bet and went into sales when I went into college because I wasn't making the college travel team. So now here we are. I'm really down.

42:14
looking for some inspiration or something to bring me back. This is my dad's last thought, his last legacy is this. And I think, you know what? I can do that. So I went on a journey for 30 months to try becoming a professional golfer. And we gave it 30 months because, in reality, we can't not work forever. We have to do it. If it works, then great. I'm a pro golfer. And if it doesn't, then I've got to go back and get a job or do something. So we gave it 30 months. But the point is,

42:44
that I was snapped out of it by the words from my deceased father that my mom read to me. And as a result of that, in addition to that, she showed me a lot of the other things that were left in his office and he had journaled all kinds of things about his vision and habits and goals and he was doing some extensive work on himself and his own emotional intelligence. So I had no idea what that was at the time in 2005. I know I was reawakened, you know, by this legacy of dad.

43:13
And moving forward in the future, you ask about emotional intelligence, Matt, I can say I didn't really have much of it. I was able to read people very, very well. I was good at sales. I was good at business. But being able to feel, process emotion was not a strength. I could read the room well. I didn't process things. I just buried them. So that was the end of a number of relationships that fizzled out or never, never started because I was so closed off.

43:43
Well, you know what's so interesting about that story and, you know, everyone's grief period is different and everyone has to go through however it makes sense for them. And maybe yours was masking until that inspiration came. But it's interesting that your story, when we started, was about the words that your father gave you in that sad time in seventh grade when you were rejected. And then you had this...

44:11
period where you didn't have him, you know, and then you had this clear the deck, wonderful weekend, then you lost him again. And what brought you out was his words. And then you got to continue the relationship with him through the things you were discovering in his journals and trying to live out this legacy that he wanted you to at least try. So it's like

44:36
all of your life you've had whether he's here or not, he's kind of guiding you. Do you feel that still? Do you feel him like he's kind of the hand on your back? Like keep going son. Every single day. And I take very specific measures to make sure that I live up that legacy, Matt. Every day I pulled up on my iPad here, I have the app GoodNotes 5 and on here, I scanned in all of his...

45:03
His mission statements, the personal work he did on his own emotional intelligence, his goals. And I pulled it up over here and I'm looking at it. And every day when I wake up and I practice my miracle morning six days a week, one of the affirmations that I'm reading are the words that my dad wrote. Because I always want to honor that and keep that close to remind me this is my why. This is what I'm here to live up to. And my framework is I want to live up to this legacy of my father for my kids, for my wife, for...

45:32
the betterment of the world. There's a lot of negative stuff out there, a lot of hard stuff and fear and sadness and pain and grief and misery and evil out there. And I feel that this is a real source of good and I wanna multiply that good out there. So yes, I keep it around me all the time. It's always here. Even when I'm playing golf, in my golf bag is a little note card that I laminated and I have to do a new one every couple of years because it gets all bent up. But I keep in there quotes from my dad.

45:59
I've got my dad's picture when he was my age now, a little bit younger than me now, on the mantle in there. So I'm constantly reminded this is the legacy that you're choosing to live up to. So yeah, it's always around me. These emotional anchors are all around my environment, all the time. Well, you've hit the emotional intelligence component because I don't know that a lot of people live in that way and in an honoring way, but also understanding.

46:25
your place in the world and your place in the legacy of your family. So it's really interesting. Like we started talking earlier and you mentioned like we think differently and we have way different experiences but we both come at it from this sense of gratitude. And it's so interesting for me to hear your story because I mean my dad is great but we don't have like I don't we don't have a family legacy that I live to. I'm kind of like...

46:54
sheet in the wind, you know, like I can do what I want. And I love hearing your story of this grounding that your dad, whether he's here or not, has created that will probably persist beyond you because of what you're doing with it. That's the intention at least, that it does persist, that it does live on and-

47:18
Is it a name? Is it a legacy of Drink On Name? Maybe, maybe it's that, but more important than that, it's good will triumph. It's integrity wins. It's this optimism, always see the positive in things. You know, these are the things that are going through the mind all the time. I'm looking up on my gratitude wall up here and seeing my vision and my values up here. And one of them, more humble, less ego, more love. That's the newest one.

47:46
I put in there a couple years ago after being on this emotional intelligence journey, Matt, but always do the right thing. This is straight from my dad, right? Do what's best for people long-term, straight from dad. Hungry for progress, straight from dad. So these core values all came from him. And to me, they all symbolize and represent this eternal optimism that we want to bring to the world.

48:17
that weekend with your father before he passed and what that would do. Do you ever think about what your relationship or who you would be had he not passed? Do you feel that you would be in the same place? Do you feel that you are a better version of Matt because he passed? Do you ever have any of these thoughts?

48:40
So I think about, are there any regrets that I have in life? And there may be a couple. I regret saying I don't love you to my mom when I was in second grade. I remember that. I regret stealing an eraser from the lost and found in second grade. But when I go back and play out regrets, there's only a couple of them and nothing major in life. Do I play the choose your own adventure had things not happened this way? This is what may have happened. I've not played that game with this particular scenario. I only imagine that if he were alive right now,

49:09
and we were visiting him that he would make a great grandfather of three girls. You know, and that might that might cause me to bring a tear out because I think he would love being a granddad. But no, I've not I've not played that that thought process out of if I had done this differently what might have happened. I don't do that with with many things, especially things of the heart like that. So no, I can't say I thought about that. I asked that selfishly. I think my entire life.

49:37
having my mom die when I was young, it's a little bit different than you were more of a fully formed human. You were existing in life with no one else's help, right? You could do things and so your relationship was different. But I know 100% without a doubt that I would not be this version of Matt if my mom had not died. And so part of my question, you know, like even as simple as achievements in school.

50:07
Like before my mom died, I was a C student. I didn't give a crap. I didn't do, you know, like whatever. I would sleep through class. The day after my mom died, I always needed an A. You know, so I went hard, you know? And so I know my trajectory would have been completely different. I was very much a mama's boy growing up. I didn't have that option anymore. So I know things that I chose to do.

50:34
A lot of them would be what was expected of me from society or from my father versus what I would have done if my mom was around. So part of my question is really selfish because my entire life, I've always seen my life as a, have you ever seen that movie, Sliding Doors with Gwyneth Paltrow? You know, it's always been, had she not died or had I not got on the train, what would that life look like? So I was just curious and it's interesting that you've never thought of that. And that's probably from,

51:04
what you've learned from your father to not really spend a lot of time on that. I invest and study my past decisions and see how I showed up and how I could have made them different, but I don't go back and think about if I made them different, then maybe my life would have been this way. An example might be I go through and have a conversation for a big sales pitch or an important emotional, crucial conversation with clients or facilitating events. I'll go back later and think about, can I have said something different?

51:34
Yes, but I don't go back and think if I can go back and try the whole scenario again, how would my life have played out differently? Now, being a coach and a strategist, I do like to play that game looking forward every day at a high level. Love to look at the game and see here the four different paths we could take and then, you know, what gives us the best odds of success based on these parameters. I love that game moving forward, but looking back, now I've tried to keep it future forward focus positive. I'm jealous.

52:03
I like to look back and think about what could have changed. And listening to your story, I'm thinking the six months of depression and this darker spot and these things probably also taught you a lot, whether you wanted to or not. And so had you not had that experience, would you look at things differently? Absolutely. Life is so fascinating. Well, if I could comment on that, that's such an important point.

52:30
is that being in a place where I was low, just no other way to put it, very low, depressed in that six month period, I would say that now as a result of being in that place, I'm able to be a little more empathetic and understanding when someone comes to the table and they're a little bit down. I'm not as judgmental or I know what's best. I may have at some point earlier in my...

53:00
career of leadership said to people when they were in a low spot for whatever reason, you can do it, pick yourself back up, tough it out. Like you said earlier, man up. I don't know if I use the word man up, but, you know, suck it up. I may have said that a number of times and that is not the response to someone who's depressed. And I didn't know that before. And I'm aware of that now, how to be a little more compassionate and caring because I was in that space. Isn't that amazing how

53:28
you can have this total view on some subject. And until you've actually lived it, then you know what? I don't know if we need to have a lot of judgment until we've actually lived something. You know what I mean? Oh, for sure. And you probably felt this too when your father died and everyone had a suggestion for you on how to grieve and how to move forward. And you shouldn't do this and you should do this. And what I've learned throughout my experience with grief, losing my mom and then losing my grandmother is that

53:57
We don't want you to tell us the solution. We just want you to listen or we just want you to be there. You know, and you're right. You have to go through it to understand that. If people, I know people that have never lost a loved one. And to me, I feel like, I don't know how to say this without sounding terrible, but I feel like I am a more formed human because I faced that loss. Like they don't know how good good things are.

54:26
because they haven't experienced certain things. And so it's so interesting to talk to someone, but also you have, like you said, we have a different perspective about life and going through these moments. So thank you for sharing this story. Definitely, having gone through this experience, it definitely helps me to be able to walk a mile in someone else's shoes with a little bit more compassion and empathy. So another learning lesson, another advantage, another...

54:55
The teaching moment came up from what I would call the worst experience, worst day of my life. It's taught me so much. But part of that is, over time, being able to be curious as to what these challenges might teach us. Because many people will take the challenge and they'll shut down afterwards. And they won't examine what it's here to teach them. They'll simply examine that they're a victim from it. And they'll carry that victimhood with them forever. And that in itself, if I could implore or challenge someone out there,

55:24
maybe challenge is a little bit of a strong word. If I could invite someone just to consider and ponder, if you were to go and face that fear, face that challenge, and look at it from a curious lens of how it might be able to serve you, of how you might be able to learn from it and walk through the doorway with it, not against it, but let it be there to help guide and inform your next actions, it could be something that could serve the world. It could be like your story, the most unimaginable.

55:52
painful thing, mom tragically dies at eight years of age. And now here you are 30 years plus later, being able to share the story and impact others through your most challenging trying time. And that might be something that, something we can all think about is how our challenge can not only heal us, but it can help to heal the world when we let it. I like that you said, you know, sometimes it's very easy to stay in that victim.

56:22
period, right, of like things are happening to me, what can I learn from these moments and how can I get better? But it took me a long time to do that. And so give yourself grace as well. I think that's important in life is that, you know, you're on your own journey. And if you can think about these things, when you're ready to think about these things, I think that's like what I would put the addendum on your comment of know your own time.

56:51
just try not to stay in one of those not great times for too long. You know, you needed those six months. Yes. You couldn't tell me that then that I needed that. I tell you what though, it was incredibly beneficial to have been through that experience. And because I'm never a butt person, always a yes and person. I would say yes and let's build on what you shared that there was challenging times, although they're tough when we're in them, and we can learn from them, and we can develop a sense of curiosity that can help serve us and the world.

57:21
If we keep building on that one thought, I would share this, that a lot of the things that we do, maybe the poor decisions or the challenging experiences, those things lead us to great wisdom when we allow it. So I like to have all the stuff that I've done wrong, or that was not my wisest decision, or the painful, the fearful, the challenging things that come up, examine each of those things with a fine-tooth comb. It will be painful. And...

57:51
There are so many learning lessons right there that can help us to kind of metamorphosize and go to that next place and impact others. So implore everyone to do that. I'd like to ask my guests a question. And I'm trying to think of who I would have you talk to. If this version of Matt, with all you know, with your experience now in learning more emotional intelligence and being vulnerable and...

58:18
and inspecting what you could learn from really tough periods, if you could go back to that Matt that said he was kind of disconnected from his parents and doing his own thing and examining life the way he felt like it without any people telling him what to do, what would you say to him about life?

58:43
Man, what would I say to 28-year-old Matt, or any younger version of Matt before that time? If 45-year-old Matt gets into the teleporter and goes back and talks to 28-year-old Matt, and I would say the same thing that I'm sharing right now is that you can do it. Keep working on yourself. Keep working on your own game because there is hope and you can do it. I would give the same piece of advice I give to everyone now is that there is a way when we're curious, just keep searching.

59:12
And that would be it. That would be what I would share now. I don't think that I could go back and give a piece of advice that would probably change Matt at that place, because I think I had to go through all the stuff I've been through to get to here. But if I could go back and share that thought, I'd say just keep up doing what you're doing and keep learning, keep growing. Because I feel that I am, and many people might have the same thought, I feel that there is some destiny, there is a fate, there is some reason I am put here on this world.

59:41
on this earth and that reason is to help defend those who cannot defend themselves. It's to help show people through the way that I live and model that they can do it. Even at 28 when I wasn't emotionally intelligent, I was still achieving at a high level. So there was still that part. This other side wasn't developed yet. And we had to have time and some wisdom to do that. So dad was the teacher. I'm grateful for that.

01:00:08
You know, when we went into this conversation, we didn't really know where we were going to go. And I am so glad that that we got to talk about that moment in seventh grade, because I think it really set the stage as to how important someone's influence can be throughout your life. Right. That was like what I just felt like a moment that people could relate to in which maybe they didn't have that and how that trickled down.

01:00:37
effect could be. So thank you for sharing your connection with your dad and how he inspired you then and how apparently continues to inspire you on a regular basis every day, I would say, right? Every single day. Every day. Because I want my children one day, and that day might be when they graduate, and they don't have to graduate to like earn love or anything of that nature. Picking an 18 to 22 year old adulthood ritual moment.

01:01:08
that when they can say in their own mind that my dad loves me and that I can do it. If that's what's on their autopilot in their mind, I will have felt that I've helped get them to a place of adulthood and maturity where they can take it from there. That's what I say is an immediate goal of the next 14 years is to achieve that. So, and dad helps me every day. I feel like you are on that journey and I have no doubt that they will feel that way if you continue what you're doing. So.

01:01:36
Keep doing that. Thank you for being a part of the LifeShift Podcasts. I am honored that you came on and shared this connection with your father. It means a lot and I know that people will connect to your story. So thank you for being a part of this. It's been a sincere honor and pleasure, my friend. Thank you for the invitation. And for those of you listening, we will be back next week with a brand new episode of the LifeShift Podcast. If you're enjoying it, please take a moment to rate it.

01:02:03
and review it on Apple Podcasts. Matt's smiling because he has a podcast and he knows how it feels when he reads one of those reviews. So if you have some time today, anyone listening, please take the time to do that. Thank you and we'll see you next week.

01:02:27
For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com