Redefining Success and Embracing Stories | Ashley Menzies Babatunde

Matt G:

[0:00] Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Life Shift Podcast. I am here with Ashley. Hello, Ashley.

AshleyMB:

[0:05] Hi, Matt. Thank you so much for having me.

Matt G:

[0:07] Well, thank you for being a part of the Life Shift Podcast. We were just talking before recording on how important this show is for me. And when you got on, you said, I was just listening and I feel seen. And that was like probably the biggest compliment you could give me for this show. So thank you for that. It is really the goal of the show is that people don't feel alone in their circumstance. So thank you for saying that.

AshleyMB:

[0:31] Yeah, absolutely. We definitely have a lot of shared goals. I can just tell. So yeah.

Matt G:

[0:36] Well, where are you joining us from, by the way? It looks really nice and beautiful back there.

AshleyMB:

[0:41] Oh, thank you. Yes. Joining you from LA, where I was born and raised. And yeah, from my home, working from home today. So.

Matt G:

[0:50] Well, it looks very pretty. If that's a green screen, you did a good job. If that's real life, even better.

AshleyMB:

[0:56] Oh, thank you. I can't believe you think it's a green screen.

AshleyMB:

[0:58] Okay, that makes me very happy. It is real life. Looks great.

Matt G:

[1:03] Maybe before we get into your story, I can just tell a little bit. If you're tuning in to hear Ashley's story and you've never heard the show before, the life shift really stemmed from my own personal experience. When I was eight, my mom died in a motorcycle accident. And after my dad told me that that happened, my entire life was different from one day to the next. I moved a thousand miles away. My parents were divorced. I mostly lived with my mom. And And so everything had changed. And this was late 80s, early 90s. And most people weren't talking about mental health or helping a kid or, you know, you just make the kid happy and their grief will go away. And meanwhile, I was hiding that, took that on as a responsibility to make sure everyone thought I was happy. But I always wondered if other people have these life-shifting moments in which everything changes. Turns out after 140 or so people that I've talked to, we do because we're humans and things happen like that in life. And so I've had the honor of talking to so many people about these life-shifting moments from internal fires where people are like, I'm just going to make this happen in my life to more external things that happen to them and what they've done with it. So I'm just honored that you want to take this space to share your story in this way, Ashley, because it really means a lot.

AshleyMB:

[2:19] Absolutely. Yeah. And it means a lot to be here. So I feel grateful to share my story. I think it's certainly a part of my purpose. So thank you.

Matt G:

[2:27] Awesome. Before we get into your story, can you tell us a little bit about who Ashley is right now in 2024?

AshleyMB:

[2:35] Yes. Ashley is happy and fulfilled. I like to consider myself multi-hyphenate. So I am a storyteller, DEI strategist, former attorney, and wife, soon to be mother, eight months in. So eight months pregnant, which is exciting.

Matt G:

[2:56] That's another life shift coming.

AshleyMB:

[2:58] Yes, I know, right? So we'll see how I become with that. And I am just someone who really wants to center our humanity and embrace our humanity in every way possible. With the work that I do, it's mostly in the corporate space because I am in the corporate space. And with DEI, how do we center who we are in this capitalist society? It's extremely important to me. I love I love human connection. I love story. I love people. I'm passionate about it. That's what makes me come alive. And so I love having conversations like this.

Matt G:

[3:34] And you're a podcaster?

AshleyMB:

[3:36] Oh, I didn't, yeah, when I said storyteller, podcaster, yes, I'm a podcaster. And my podcast is called No Straight Path, and we look at the human stories behind success. And so it's related to that general theme of how do we center our humanity? We see all the accolades. We see everything on social media. We see it on LinkedIn, on our resumes. But what's the actual journey behind that? Who are the people behind that? What are their highs? What are their lows? those, you know, what are they dealing with and what are the lessons learned? And we do it from a millennial perspective. I'm a millennial. And so, yeah, most people are mid-journey. And I know it's a range of a generation, but I'm 34. And so, you know, I usually talk to folks between the ages of maybe 27 to 38 and kind of, you know, talk about their lives and their future plans.

Matt G:

[4:31] That's, that's awesome. You know, I think I love that you're focusing on the human behind all the accolades. Cause I think at least like I'm on the very edge of millennial and I wouldn't, some aspects of me are millennial and some are, are the previous generation, but it's, we were kind of trained, I think in society to really like do all the good things, get the next success, talk about those. Don't tell anyone about what's happening behind closed close doors at home, don't tell anyone when you're having a bad day, and everything was kind of hidden back there. And yet, in all of these conversations, and I'm sure you see this too, there's so many moments, things that I have in common with people in their harder, more challenging, lower moments than I do with the accolades that they got or the big awards or the promotions or the things like I really connect on a human level in the struggle, in the pieces that make them more human, if you will. So I don't know if you see any of those things, but I love that you're focused in that space.

AshleyMB:

[5:36] Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you. Yes. That's exactly what I see. Yeah. I think it's It's like the things that make us human are the things that bring us together and perfection isn't human. And so.

Matt G:

[5:49] Although we were trained to be perfect. Right. And the challenge is in there too is like, oh, we were trained this way. Now, how do I unfold that? How do I unravel that? How do I find my humanity? So, good on you for doing that and bringing those things to the world because I think that also feeds into other people's version of success or the way that they would classify success. I think it becomes a different definition once we know the full human story behind it.

AshleyMB:

[6:19] Exactly. Yeah. No, you could write my podcast bio because that's what I talk about, helping people find their version of success now because it's certainly changed for me.

Matt G:

[6:29] Yeah oh i can imagine i think it i think it is changing now in like today's time i think people are approaching things a little bit different i think people are leaning into messy a little bit more they're leaning into not being so perfect as much which is nice and it's refreshing and those of us that are lagging behind where i'm trying to catch up you know, so maybe you can kind of paint the picture of what your life was like leading up to this first major pivotal moment in your life that kind of triggered all these changes that came after and made this version of Ashley.

AshleyMB:

[7:05] Yeah. So it's actually related to my perfectionism story. I think I was just born intense. I know we certainly have, there's the nature versus nurture, and I think it's always a combination of both. There's definitely societal expectations, but I was like born an intense child, overachiever, academic, would cry when I colored outside the lines. And when you would just compare that to my cousin who's like my sister about a year apart. I'd call her outside the lines. I'd have a whole meltdown, a whole breakdown, my whole family would tell me this story. It's okay, calm down. And then my cousin would go to the next activity unbothered. And so it was just like a personality type thing. And I still envy it now, like her ability to be present and be happy. I'm like, how? How can you do that?

AshleyMB:

[7:54] And so came from a super supportive family and they just really wanted me to pursue the work I wanted to pursue. So there wasn't pressure. So yeah. So it's interesting in that like I wrote when I was 10 years old, I wrote a letter to myself and I said, I wanted to go to Stanford, that I wanted to go to Harvard, that I wanted to be a lawyer amongst other things that I like love shopping and food and fashion. And those are all true still, but I wrote my goals down And ultimately- At 10? This was 10 years old. Yeah, my mom kept it. Oh my gosh. My mom was like biggest cheerleader, just super supportive. Yeah, just, so she kept everything, which I'm so grateful for. And she kept that letter. And so it was amazing to go back and look at that letter and to see that I had actually accomplished every goal in that letter.

Matt G:

[8:52] Did you remember that letter?

AshleyMB:

[8:54] No, I remember my mom like saying that I said I wanted to do these things and being, and I remember that dream. Like I remember the dream of becoming a lawyer. I knew the dream of going to Stanford because I wanted to run track there. I remember seeing them on, seeing like the track team on TV and I heard it was a good school academically and I was also an athlete. So I was like, oh, it has all the things that I would love. It's also in California because I'm an only child. My parents didn't want me to go too far away. And so it just seemed like the perfect school. So I remember always having that dream. But then going back, like Harvard Law School was never really on my radar. But then seeing in my letter that I had said Harvard, which is interesting. Must have saw that on TV. You know, no one's gone to Harvard in my family. Yeah, so I don't, not the specific letter, but definitely the dreams that I had written.

Matt G:

[9:47] Was that something like your parents influenced like hey write a letter to yourself or was that just your driven nature to be like Look, I'm gonna put my goals on paper because that's the only way it's gonna happen.

AshleyMB:

[9:58] So I think, It was probably a school activity, perhaps something. So serious. I know. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was me. Everybody says I was so serious. It's so funny because I'm so unserious now.

Matt G:

[10:14] You got it out of your system.

AshleyMB:

[10:16] Yeah. Yeah. Even with dance routines, I was so serious about leading my cousins and making sure the steps were perfect.

Matt G:

[10:25] And so mad when they messed up.

AshleyMB:

[10:27] Yes. And I had high expectations. They called me the drill sergeant. They're like, You're so sweet, but when we didn't do well, you looked disappointed.

Matt G:

[10:36] You were driven. I mean, that's so young, though, but it's amazing. And I love also that you highlighted that your family was supportive because I think there's a lot of people, and you probably talked to a lot of people with perfectionism traits. Usually it's like, or myself, I'll just speak for myself. My perfectionist traits came from feeling like I had to be perfect so that my dad wouldn't leave because my mom died when I was younger. So she left. Was it my fault? Well, I better be perfect or he's going to leave too. And that just, you know, perpetuates and gets bigger and bigger as I grow up. But it's, you know, you had supportive parents, you had, you know, so you were just like, it was planted in you when you were born.

AshleyMB:

[11:21] Yeah. Yeah. I know your story is definitely, certainly one that I can't relate to, but I have friends who've had that story and the pressure came from society. It's like a fear. Yeah, fear of abandonment and leaving. And I think my parents did the opposite, saying, we love you for who you are. I didn't really even understand. My mom would always say, I love you because you are beautifully and wonderfully made. You are a child of God. God, nothing you can do, you know, would make me stop loving you. And she'd say these things. I'm like, okay, mom, chill. Like, why are you saying all this? You know how it gets. But like in retrospect, I just see the value of that. I always had confidence in myself and I always felt very loved. And especially also from my dad, you know, my dad, he's lived like 10 minutes away and I I needed him to come kill a spider and he came like yesterday. It's wild. I'm almost 35, but like always love and support there. And yeah, so there's this, and it goes back to kind of like part of who you are, you're always going to be. And so how do you use that for good and make sure that that's not anxiety driven? Like, you know, being driven is great. I think it's gotten me to a lot of good places in life and it's been extremely helpful. They often say your greatest strength.

AshleyMB:

[12:51] Weakness, your greatest strength is often your greatest weakness. And so it's just figuring out, okay, how can I unlock the greatest parts of my ambition and my drive and make sure that it doesn't become negative and lead to mental health issues, which it can. And I've been there, which is a part of my story. And so, so yeah, so definitely. And so being that driven, driven I always worked hard and I saw positive results so most of my life I thought that if you work hard you see positive results the path is linear I did this I did this I did this of course I'm going to be able to do this and so my life shift moment is actually kind of two moments connected to one but the first was when the path was no longer linear for me and that was the California bar exam. I had almost checked off everything on that list. I was about to become a lawyer and I failed the exam and I was crushed.

Matt G:

[13:53] Oh, I bet. That's much worse than coloring outside of the lines for your brain, I bet.

AshleyMB:

[13:57] Yes. Very, very challenging at that time. So difficult, devastating, felt like the world was over.

Matt G:

[14:07] Was that like the first big thing that you like hit a wall on or hit some kind of speed bump, if you will?

AshleyMB:

[14:14] Yeah, you know, and big bump because I don't want to minimize the other challenges that I had previously, you know, on this journey to academic success. You know, I think that there were hard times because with just the late night studying and the pressure and the anxiety and the Socratic method, you know, being at Harvard Law law school and Ms. Menzies, what are the facts of the case? And Ms. Menzies, all these different, things. I look back and say, wow, proud of that girl. I don't know if I could do that now.

Matt G:

[14:49] You don't have to. You already did it.

AshleyMB:

[14:51] Yes.

Matt G:

[14:52] Check that one off.

AshleyMB:

[14:54] Exactly. So yeah, I just... Taking the LSAT, there were definitely times where I had to put my head down, had some challenging things happen on any kind of road to achieving your dreams, but it always worked out. In this instance, it worked out. It just took a lot longer to get there.

AshleyMB:

[15:21] I ended up having so much anxiety after that because I just didn't know how it felt to fail fail that I failed a second time and ultimately lost my job. And this was my first job out of law school. And I remember thinking that at that time, the thing that saved me was story. It was human connection. It was storytelling. It was people reaching out to me and saying, hey, I'm doing this right now and I failed the exam. You'll be fine. Hey, you know, and during During this time, it was 2017, and especially in these really academic kind of elite institutions, people really don't talk about failure. And so- Probably were never allowed to. Yeah, right? Right? Not allowed to. That is not the culture. And so it meant so much when people shared with me. And so I thought, I've got to share my story. And that led to a blog post. once I actually passed because I dug deep and I did pass the exam. And that led to a lot of people reaching out and making me realize, okay, there's something here about storytelling and vulnerability and I need to do something with this.

Matt G:

[16:43] So just, so that hitting the wall that like stopped you in your place and said, wait a second, life isn't, I don't want to say easy because it wasn't easy, but life is not going to just continue like you're gonna have to put a little more in this time life might not you know work itself out in the ways that it has before you're leveling up to something new and it gave you this little challenge was almost like a pause in your life too right like in this like i picture like a car screeching to a halt in a way because it made you kind of think like okay now i have to like sit here and figure out what the next step is and And then people intervened and that whole like, we connect with the things that are hard. We connect in those valleys. That was like a perfect example of all these people being like, I did it too. And it's okay. And you know, and I'm sure around you, I'm sure your parents were like, it's okay. You'll figure it out. Right? I mean, it sounds like your parents were pretty supportive in general. So how did they respond in that moment?

AshleyMB:

[17:45] Yeah, they were extremely supportive. They, you know, they felt bad. They knew, they just saw how hard it was for me. So there wasn't really anything that they could say. So I could see a little bit of the helplessness that they felt, but they were extremely supportive. My husband, who was my boyfriend at the time, I literally thought he might leave me. He was like, what is wrong with you? Yeah. You know, but at the time I was like, oh my gosh, because I had also, I learned a few lessons. The first was I had tied too much of my self-worth to my accolades and my accomplishments.

AshleyMB:

[18:19] And so it was the first time where I had to realize that my self-worth comes from my humanity. It comes from my innate qualities. It comes from my ability to actually just get up and try again and be resilient. It comes from things outside of anything related to accomplishment. You know, people still loved me. When we talk about that, like that unlovable

AshleyMB:

[18:41] kind of, you know, issue people might have when it comes to pursuing success. And I didn't think I had it. but this instance this circumstance made me see that I was tying too much of my worth to those things so it allowed me to kind of take a step back pause think about what I'm learning here and then ultimately think about what I might want to do with this and in addition to the The blog, I thought, one day, don't know when, I want to put a podcast out. And I want to tell these stories because I think they can be extremely helpful.

Matt G:

[19:25] Do you think that that was triggered because of how others' stories made you feel or how it felt when you put your story out there?

AshleyMB:

[19:36] Hmm. Probably a little bit of both. That's a great question. I think...

Matt G:

[19:41] And the reason I asked that too, while you're thinking about it is, had you taken the time in the past? Because it sounds like you were very accomplishment driven. You wanted to see the next thing you could do because you knew you could do it. You had this confidence in you. Had there been moments before in which story had impacted you in these ways? Yes. Or was this really the first time that kind of broke through and was like, ooh?

AshleyMB:

[20:06] Yes, but in a different way. So I think I always love telling other people's stories. I think it was the first time where I really told my own story. So when I was in college, I wrote for the school. So I ran track, and so that took up a lot of my time. But then I had an injury. And so my senior year, I didn't run. I went abroad. I lived my best life. And what did I do? I started working on the school paper and it was really just a very short period of time, but I worked on the feature section and I loved it. And I just interviewed classmates about their personal stories. And within that short period of time, when I wasn't even trying to get an award or get an accomplishment, I got the best feature story, right? And so it was an interesting thing that I don't know. Maybe I stored it away, but I loved it. I loved being able to tell meaningful, impactful stories based on the personal journey. And so I think that I like, this was the first time where I was sharing my own. I had my own story to really tell.

Matt G:

[21:14] And- Well, you had it before.

AshleyMB:

[21:16] You're right. But I felt like it was not interesting, but it's, you know- I understand it totally.

Matt G:

[21:25] It's, it's, it's when we have a crack that others can see is I feel like when a story impacts me even more. So it's, it's interesting to hear. I'd love to know what drew, like, what about telling those people's stories in the school newspaper? Like, How did that make you feel? Was it something like where you were like, oh, like humanity? Or were you like, this is just really interesting and so cool? Or did it hit you in the feels? Or was it more like I want to get their story out there kind of thing?

AshleyMB:

[21:56] Yeah, I think it was both. It hit me in the feels because this was a particular issue that was important to me. I had a friend who was undocumented. I remember I was in the dining room and we were all talking about where we were going next. I'm going here. You're going here. And everyone's sharing. We're going to this consulting firm. I'm going to be a paralegal. And then I was talking to my friend I know, and he is an econ major and was just really brilliant. And so I thought he'd be going into finance or something. I knew he came from Mexican-American, low-income family. So I knew he'd probably go like most of us for the money so that we can help our families. So that's what I was thinking. I was, oh, are you going to be at Bain? Are you going to be at this? And then he said to me, oh, yeah, you know, my citizenship status, just working on that, you know, so I don't know what's next. And I said, okay. And then you could tell I was a little confused. He said, because I'm undocumented.

AshleyMB:

[22:53] And you could tell I was also still confused. And then he whispered, Ashley, I'm illegal. And I just remember that. Feeling like very shaken in that moment, not really understanding it and understanding how could you be at Stanford with me and like have all these same opportunities, but then you can't work and you're getting educated in America, but then you may not be able to go off and actually use your education. I had so many questions. And so I thought I got to do research. And so it created, you know, basically a space for me. I did research. I talked to him. I knew probably, This is 2010. The DREAM Act had been introduced in 2001, bipartisan legislation, still no movement on it. We weren't talking about it that much. And so it kind of led me really to do all this work in that area and to work with his lawyers to see if we could even know how can we do this and put this story out because I think people need to know. It led to an organization that once i graduated that started working with the dream act i put out helped with the documentary we raised daca scholarship so i know i just i'm a.

Matt G:

[24:07] Passionate life shift yeah that's another life shift um yeah no it's i mean you are you're a passionate person but like you think like you got injured which then caused you this opportunity like there's like there's so many little triggers that happen to pull you into this space and i can't help but draw parallels to even the work you do now and helping people tell their stories and to success, which are probably circuitous routes similar to your classmate.

AshleyMB:

[24:36] Yeah, no, you're right. You're right. See, that's why I love having these conversations too because it's a therapy session for me.

Matt G:

[24:44] Well, I mean, it's just like so beautiful to hear a person that is so driven for knowledge, for connection, for, I mean, achievement is also good.

Matt G:

[24:58] That's a good quality to have. There aren't a lot of people like you. I don't know if you've noticed this in the world. Like- there are a lot of people that are driven for like money or this or that or but it seems like you're you're driven by humanity whether that's your own humanity because you want to be the best version of Ashley you can be you know growing up that was seems like that's what you were doing to like just achieve the things that make you happy but then all the other little no I did this and this for your classmate that I mean you're changing lives through your passion for the world and living. So like kudos to you for just being you because you've changed the world in that way. So I just wanted to pause and say that because I don't see a lot of people like you.

AshleyMB:

[25:45] Thank you so much. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate that.

Matt G:

[25:51] There's a lot of us that are like perfectionists and can relate to that aspect of your life, but we do it for different reasons. And to know that it was born in you in this fire way of like passion for whatever you're choosing to do is really inspiring. And I hope there are other people out there that see that, you know, you can go through, you can get all your achievements that you want to, and you can kind of pass through. And even if you hit the bar and you literally hit the bar a few times, you know, and then eventually you've had like life works itself out because you've changed. I mean, let's count all the lives you've changed just in this short little story.

AshleyMB:

[26:33] Oh, wow. Oh, you're just warming my heart. But I know I appreciate that. Yeah, and it's good to kind of understand that about myself and know what drives me. Because then if I'm doing work that's not necessarily pushing the envelope to support humanity. Do you feel that deep in your soul? Yeah, then you can feel.

Matt G:

[26:54] When you're not doing something aligned?

AshleyMB:

[26:55] Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, because you...

Matt G:

[26:58] How do you take care of something like that?

AshleyMB:

[27:00] Well... It's easier to do now because I know who I am, where I'm going, what I want to do. Well, I don't know always where I'm going, but I have a general...

Matt G:

[27:12] You have a generalized direction.

AshleyMB:

[27:14] A general direction, but you do get lost.

AshleyMB:

[27:19] And this is a little bit kind of related to more of the life shift in cultures that are telling you to be one way. And the pursuit of legal education I think changed me and I think that that is also why I'm kind of doing more of the work where I'm in the legal profession now but doing more of the DEI work how do we let people be their authentic selves and and kind of follow what's right for them because there were just all these strict very linear and just limiting limiting yes thank you limiting beliefs and rules about how to be. It's changing, thankfully. But when I was coming up in it, it was hard. And so I think you do move in a way that's not necessarily aligned with who you are and perhaps what you want because you're just conforming because there's been this set out path for you in some of these industries.

Matt G:

[28:21] You're coloring in the lines.

AshleyMB:

[28:22] Yeah.

Matt G:

[28:24] Just like the younger version of you. you had to play you had to play you were training yourself to stay in the line so that you could achieve those things yeah yeah yeah so you saw those things you did you notice them in the moment or was it more reflection that you were kind of changing or you were maybe not changing but like aligning to what was required of you versus allowing to be your full self yeah.

AshleyMB:

[28:49] I think I think it was more of reflection, it was more small betrayals of self that added up over time. I was recently talking to someone and it was interesting, like a small thing at the time, what was just how I dressed. And I remember we had our oral arguments in law school and I was so excited. I'm from LA. I think I showed you, I was like, I love shopping in fashion. And I was going to wear these, well, I did wear these suede blue shoes with a plaid skirt. I was like, this pop of color would be great. Give me the confidence to go into these oral arguments. And I walked into the room. Everyone had a suit on. And I was like, oh, I guess I should have worn a suit. And from then on, I only wore suits in legal settings. And it was small, but like that was self-expression for me. And so I was just dimming my light. And I would do that even in emails. When I got into the big law firm context, I saw so many people were quite concise, which is they teach you to be concise, but no one was using exclamation points. My personality is quite bubbly, and I'm energetic.

AshleyMB:

[29:59] The way I even move through the world, I feel like I'm an exclamation point most of the time. And so I just changed my writing style a little bit. And it took other people who I admired coloring a little bit outside of the lines to see that I could be successful in this space and be myself. And so now I always use my exclamation points. I wear what I want. Obviously, I don't want to say appropriate. There is professional work, but I wear things that I like. And I think that I also can say a little bit more of how I feel. I think there's also a fear of challenging any type of like, way of thinking or authority sometimes. And it can be hard when you're coming

AshleyMB:

[30:48] up in your career because of the different power dynamics. So you'd have to test the limits and understand it and understand the culture. I always tell folks that because I don't want to give bad advice. I know we need our jobs to live.

Matt G:

[31:01] Don't go wild until you know it's safe to go wild. But in those moments, like in that dress code moment, was that something that anyone told you like, oh, you're not going to be successful doing that? Or did you just conform because you saw everyone else kind of lined up in the same kind of outfit?

AshleyMB:

[31:21] The latter. I just conformed. I said, oh, I guess this is what everyone wears.

Matt G:

[31:26] So no one, I mean, you were probably still successful in that outfit that day?

AshleyMB:

[31:30] I was, yeah. We won a prize. We won best brief.

Matt G:

[31:34] Yeah. And so it's interesting from an outsider's perspective, we probably would have looked at that and said, go you, awesome. You did all the things you were supposed to do. You were successful in what you set out to do. Yet when we're in our brains and we see these things, we think, oh, well, I'm the only one standing out. I guess I have to fall in line. So it's so hard to be a human sometimes.

AshleyMB:

[31:55] Yeah, no, you're right. And what you're saying is definitely a reflection of a lot of my journey of some of this stuff is also just self-imposed. And I think I had to ask questions and then be a little brave and continue to tap into myself. And once I finally got to being myself at work, it was completely fine. People really even liked me. They're like, oh, you're refreshing.

Matt G:

[32:25] You're like, oh, I could have been doing this for the last five years or however long. Was there a moment where you realized you could be yourself? Like, was there like a light switch kind of feel where like, oh, I'm like living in myself now.

Matt G:

[32:39] And that's okay if it's no. I'm just kidding.

AshleyMB:

[32:41] Yeah. It was after. So I'll give you, I'll give the audience a little bit of the story of the life shift, close that part of it. And I think that because it's all related, is that after I put out the podcast, or after I just thought about it, I started practicing law and just got busy with just the practice. And during 2020, when most people were tapping into their creative interest, simultaneously, my mom was diagnosed with a really rare cancer, leiomyosarcoma. And what working on the podcast did for us is it gave us this bright light for the future and something that we could talk about. And so, because we didn't always want to, my mom especially. She was of the mindset, just very, very faith-based and very positive and didn't really want to talk about anything negative, even though I looked at the prognosis and it was going to be... Really rough. I was pretty sure she was not. We needed a miracle, basically, for her to make it. And so I was trying to go deep and get all these. I knew so much about my mother's life, so it was fine. But I was trying to go deep and get these questions because I'm a storyteller and everything. And she was just like, stop acting like I'm dying.

AshleyMB:

[34:05] You know what I mean? She didn't say that, but she would kind of close down. And so I said, okay, maybe that's not the way we're going to be able to do that this year, but maybe let's do something around the podcast. And that's what she loved because she got to see me pursuing my dreams. And so we talked about the title. We talked about the things I was going to do. We talked about the interviews. I'd run everything by her. And it was like this beautiful light for us because my mom was a storyteller in her own right, just kind of through her church and really pouring into women in her life. That was her thing. And I ended up, you know, life happened again, needed to put that away and kind of take care of her towards the end. But a year later, I needed, after she passed away, I needed something to help deal with my grief. And I said, oh yeah, I got to put that podcast out. That's what my mom would want. And she loved talking about it and I love doing it. And I I think this is just going to really help me. And so I put the podcast out. And I always say this is divine timing, but three weeks later, HubSpot, the marketing platform, they reached out to me to join the HubSpot Podcast Network to be in their Creator Accelerator program.

AshleyMB:

[35:26] And as an attorney, I had to Google creator and accelerator. I didn't know any of this. And I thought it would be so overwhelming. And at first I said no. And then I heard my mom, She said, girl, you better take that opportunity. Like I just hear her.

AshleyMB:

[35:42] And so I'm so grateful. I took the opportunity and it led me down this path where I was having these authentic conversations. I was talking to people who were going through their life shifts. I was getting inspired by people who had already stepped into their authentic selves. And so I was already on that trajectory, I think, at my job. But I think the last bit was losing my mother and the podcast that helped me easily embrace who I am because life is too short.

AshleyMB:

[36:15] And I had more examples of other people who had done it through the podcasting realm. Yeah.

Matt G:

[36:21] And then you probably saw them as successful, even if they hadn't hit all the check marks, right? The people you talk to, right? And so then you kind of, then you reflect on yourself going, well, I am successful no matter what I do and anything I do. And it becomes, I understand that because like having these conversations, you're just like, oh, I am a valid human. Like I actually, like, oh, when I felt, I had this conversation with someone, her father died when she was like four or five. And so growing up, she had very similar feelings to me. And she said something which totally validated my experience because she said, We were talking about like our teenage years and how both of us imagined or told ourselves that our parents were in witness protection. At some point, they would come back because it was a form of like grief, you know, like trying to push down a little bit of grief, trying to get that make-believe to be more of the real story. But because I had never told anyone that, and we had this conversation, it validated my whole experience. Like, oh, I'm not crazy. It's just part of that journey. And so I can see while you talking to all these people through your podcast that was born out of the love that you and your mother have, it's like I can imagine it opening a world of maybe different perspectives that maybe you didn't carry with you before.

AshleyMB:

[37:49] Yes, 100%. Like I think things that normalize things that I would say old Ashley, wouldn't have necessarily thought were normal or I thought or I guess I would have thought that they were very inspirational and I think that now not that I don't find the guests I think everyone is inspiring on my show but I see a lot of myself in those stories now because, I've taken risks and I've been able to be brave and and it's easier to be who you are or when you, when you have no choice at all. I think something about loss made it so easy to pursue a life that was fulfilling and aligned with who I am. And not that I wasn't on that journey, because I was. I don't want to say there were some other parts, but I think it made it easier for me to just fully embrace it.

Matt G:

[38:55] Yeah. Why do you think that's true? And do you think it's true of everyone with loss?

AshleyMB:

[39:02] No, I think everyone's grief journey is different. I've noticed that. It's, yeah, everyone's, it is. And so...

Matt G:

[39:10] Because the reason I ask that is logically, it makes sense, right? Logically, it makes sense. If you see or witness or experience someone dying that's close to you. Logically, it makes sense like, oh, life is short. Let's live our best lives. But it's not quite that simple because we're human.

AshleyMB:

[39:29] Yeah. I think that for me, we all know life is short and you can read these things and you watch the movies and everything, but there's something about experience that, and that's with everything, that changes perspectives perspectives and changes behavior.

AshleyMB:

[39:48] And I will say that you can lose that. I think immediately after my mother's loss, it was like, okay, life is short. I really got to do what I want to do. And so I think that was the catalyst that helped me kind of leave, take a sabbatical from my firm, start the podcast, start the business. That time period, I think, was very helpful in order to push me because now I'm back and caught up back in my corporate job that I love, thankfully. now.

Matt G:

[40:16] But you found a new way to do it.

AshleyMB:

[40:17] A new way to do it, exactly. And, you know, so you could, arguably, the way I'm living life, I could say that... I'm not maybe as intentional about being present or like life is short. Maybe I don't think about it as much, I will say. I don't. I know that. But I always try to go back to that, especially for the presence piece, because I think it's really important. Because when you lose someone, you also realize if you have enough memories built up, because I know everybody's journey is different, you realize it wasn't the big things. It was always the small things. It was, I mean, even now be preparing for motherhood because my grandmother also who I was raised with, I was raised with my mom, dad, grandmother in the same home. A year and a half after my mom passed away, my grandmother passed away. And so, and we were extremely close. And so I see every little thing that they have done and how it's showing up in my life and how I want to show up as a mother. And it feels really, really good. And it was never the big stuff. And so I think it also just re-centers you and helps you kind of focus on what's most important. But you do have to always kind of come back to it because the life hustle and bustle will get you, you know?

Matt G:

[41:39] Yeah. I also think there's something about losing someone in the way that you did, at least with your mother and watching someone approach death essentially and know it's happening. Like I had that experience with my grandmother. We, because my mom died when I was a kid, sudden death, didn't understand it, didn't have the time to, or the ability to process it. 20 years of grief, long journey. But because of that, I got a really close relationship with my grandmother she was basically my mother she was my best friend she was like the the motherly stand-in and then when she was diagnosed with cancer it was like because i failed so hard at losing my mom in my mind this perfectionist mind because i did it so terribly i was gonna do it right and so i leaned into everything like i had the conversation like that last conversation that you should have instead of saving it for the funeral kind of thing like i told her everything she meant to me i told her everything that she brought value to my life. We had that conversation. I sat with her for her last five days of her life. Actually, today on recording is the day that she died nine years ago. And so, but that experience changed me as a person way more, I think, than the way I lost my mother. So I think I say all that to say watching someone lose their.

Matt G:

[43:03] Their abilities, lose, you know, their, their will to live at some point, all those pieces, watching that and then watching them take their last breath changes a human in a way that is beautiful, but also like indescribable. And I don't know if you feel the same way or if you had a similar experience, but I do think there's something to that type of loss that changes someone.

AshleyMB:

[43:25] Yeah, no, I feel it. And I, yeah, I experienced it with both. And so, yeah. And I, And it helped, the first loss helped me understand what was coming from my grandmother's loss. I think even some folks in the family didn't really get it. She had a stroke and I just knew. And I know my grandmother and I knew she was tired. And so we had this, before the stroke, let's just say another like divine thing, two months before her stroke, I had this, I planned this very stressful trip. I had to convince grandma, but I was like, we're going to do a 95th birthday. We're going to get grandma in a car, and the whole family is going to come for Christmas. And we put, we didn't, we not blindfolded her, but we put my face mask on her. And we put on her, we're Guyanese on my dad's side, so Caribbean. We put our favorite Calypso music on, and we're driving up in Big Bear. And we just, and then she gets, and we finally get there, we take the mask off because she's just afraid. And she's in beautiful snow, and her whole family's there. And she was really happy.

AshleyMB:

[44:34] And I felt so grateful that we were able to do that. Not knowing, but knowing she was slowing down. She was 95, right? So you just never know. But then a couple months later, that's when the stroke happened. And then that's when there was a huge decline. And I didn't see her coming back from it. But we had other family members who were like having her do physical therapy and not really getting it. But I was in LA. Not everybody was in LA. And I didn't know how to say it. but I just... I knew. And during, so when all that was happening actually was when I was at the height of the podcast stuff. And when I decided to also take the sabbatical. So there was a lot going on. And then I was also planning my wedding. Oh, well, that's not stressful at all. Happy things too and stressful things. Yeah. But yeah.

Matt G:

[45:24] I think when you see, when you witness what you did with your mom, I think you look at life differently when other people are passing and there's like this, I don't know, maybe I'm speaking out of turn here, but it almost feels like there's more of an acceptance of an end. Like, yes, you're sad. Yes, you're going to miss this relationship. But you also know, like, this is how life goes. Did you, do you, like, Did you accept the fact that your grandmother was deteriorating after that stroke and like you were okay with it because you knew this is just kind of how this happens? This is a terrible question. I'm sorry, but curious.

AshleyMB:

[46:05] Yeah. No, I mean, yes. And I don't know if that's why though. I think I was accepting of it because I felt like it was fair. And I know that sounds a bit odd to say, but I felt like, I struggled. I felt like it was so unfair that my mother lost. And I don't know if you felt like this, but you lost your mom really young. That kind of feels like, man, it should have been longer. And we know that everyone's life is different. And I know that intellectually. But I think with my grandmother, what gave me peace was, and maybe you're connecting the dots for me, part of it was perhaps that initial experience I had with my mother. And I think the other part of it was that she got to live a long life and I just thought that was so beautiful like I think losing her was tough but I also felt so grateful that I got I knew my grandmother so well and that she got to do all these incredible things and and and live so long and so I just felt so a lot of gratitude you.

Matt G:

[47:16] Make a really good point about the fairness I I kind of I mean that that makes me think because I, my mom was 32 when she died. And so I, when I was young, I thought 32, then this old. And then when I became 33, I was like, oh, now I'm older than my mom. And I, but I never really thought about it. And I think it's because how young I was when she died, like that fairness kind of thing goes away. But the older I get, I connect with what you say. And that's a great long life hopefully it was a great long life that is a long life just in general but hopefully it was a great one and I can see how you know if you're close to someone like that you're like you know if they live the best ones then then it's okay it's not I mean it's not great, Right. Right.

Matt G:

[48:36] It. But I look at your story with this like, there's like a picture of a gift in my head because of this podcast connection that you had with your mom before she got super ill right like you had this and you probably saw the light in her eyes when she talked about it and now you get to do it and i can imagine that you think of your mom when you're doing it and having these stories and continuing it on is that it does she come with you in those stories as you have these conversations yeah.

AshleyMB:

[49:03] You know i think for the at the initial first year, perhaps, I think it was really like about her and that grief. That was your grieving journey.

Matt G:

[49:14] Huh?

AshleyMB:

[49:14] Yeah, that was really, really helpful. And I wrote some essays, I had a blog too, just about her life. And I think that's where she really came in. I think now what she helped me do and what she's always helped me do is just figure out my passions, support my gifts. And so I love storytelling and my grandmother was also a storyteller so I think I connected to both of them but what I think where I'm at now in life.

AshleyMB:

[49:42] Everything I do, oh, I see my mother in it. I see my grandmother in it. I see my grandfather in it. And that feels really good entering motherhood. So I think before, there was a special tie to the podcast, which it will always hold, because I think there will be a different iteration, my creative journey. Me, but it's more so like my mom was really happy. My mom was really fulfilled. She poured into relationships. She had a beautiful marriage with my dad until she passed for 38 years. And so I think it's broader now and that it's like, she is always with me. She's always within me. And kind of like what you said, sometimes it can be weird to like, you want to feel validated, but it's like, I know I'm feeling a little off if I'm not connecting with her. And so you have to figure out what that means and looks like to you. And I have to, you know, I write in my journal to her. I have to talk to her. I have to, you know, that is okay. I talk to all my friends who have lost and they're like, oh no, I do that. One of my friends, like I talked to my mom in the moon. I said, oh, great. Cause you feel, you know, a little weird. But when I'm not doing that and I feel disconnected that's when i get the anxiety and the you know i don't know when feeling lost and feeling more deep in my grief.

Matt G:

[51:02] Yeah but i think which is also okay when you're feeling deep in your grief i think yeah normalizing the fact that we grief can be forever it can be how you know like however we need it to be and that's okay all the all the journey is okay and is your own I think a lot of people take shame yeah.

AshleyMB:

[51:22] No I agree.

Matt G:

[51:23] It'll be forever for me yeah that's okay though yeah totally what do you think, people get mad at me because I feel like with my, Both of the big losses in my life, I feel like I've mostly closed the door. For my mom, I think that's different because I only knew her for eight years. And how much of those eight years do you really know someone, right? Like the first three, you probably don't remember anything from. And then the memories come a little bit farther. So my whole life growing up, my mother was more of like an idea or a figment. Like I remembered her, but I only remembered the idea of her. So that one was it took a long time to get over that grief journey because of what i attached to it basically like you mentioned earlier the abandonment fear like of that i had and that took a long time so i think i closed the door on that one my grandmother because i did so terribly grieving my mom i think i was able to close the door quicker with my grandmother so i don't i i I get sad. I miss them. But I wouldn't say that I'm actively grieving, if that makes any sense.

AshleyMB:

[52:34] Yeah.

Matt G:

[52:34] So I don't know. I mean, we're humans, you know, that's just how we go.

Matt G:

[52:39] But your story is, I just, I don't know, it's, I love that you've found, because it sounds like growing up, your whole, you were chasing your passion. Your passion was to be successful and do the successful things that made you happy, like that you wanted to do, that you were driven to do. But now you're driven by like the same heat and passion inside, but it seems like it's manifested in a different way. Or it's like passionate for living in a different way. How would you describe the before and after of Ashley?

AshleyMB:

[53:17] Yeah, I think the before was wired for success, right? And I did things that I was passionate about, but I also did things that the world told me that I needed to do to be successful. So I definitely fell into that trap. I was not, you know, otherwise I probably would have maybe gone into a different career. Like lawyer is a stable. Yeah, exactly. Professional podcaster. We didn't even have podcasts. But, you know, so I do think there are parts I don't want to necessarily say wasn't influenced by societal expectations. I think we all are. And so I was chasing the gold stars, but I liked achieving and I was competitive. And so I think that all of that was a part of me until I got to a point where I realized, okay, I want to do the things I'm passionate about. And so I want to take that same passion because these were my goals. But sometimes you reach your own goals and you say, oh, wait, this is not necessarily where I want to be. Right, yeah. And you change. And so I think that Ashley now is, I've lived a little bit more life. I've figured out who I am a little bit more and I might continue to change and iterate and test.

Matt G:

[54:32] We can only hope, right?

AshleyMB:

[54:34] Yeah, yeah.

Matt G:

[54:35] No, I think that's the beauty. What if this Ashley, this living in the most truth she's ever lived in and passionate about life and doing what you want to do and leaning into that more. If you could go back to the Ashley that had just received her results from that bar exam that first time, is there anything you'd want to tell her knowing what you know now?

AshleyMB:

[54:59] I'd tell her and that she wouldn't believe me. Of course. Is that it'll all work out and you will live your dreams. You really will. will and your dreams may not be what you even think they are right now, but just trust the process, trust the journey.

Matt G:

[55:21] Yeah. Yeah. I agree with the fact that you probably wouldn't have believed yourself at the time.

AshleyMB:

[55:26] Yeah.

Matt G:

[55:27] It probably would have felt like, no, you're wrong, lady, go away.

AshleyMB:

[55:32] Exactly.

Matt G:

[55:34] Well, thank you for sharing that. I think, you know, how wonderful would it be if we could go back and tell our younger selves some of this information but at the same time we probably wouldn't be the people we are today if we hadn't gone through all of that so you know yeah I firmly believe half a dozen at the other yeah.

AshleyMB:

[55:54] No I firmly believe that like every part of our journey matters and so.

Matt G:

[56:00] Even the hard parts yeah probably especially the hard parts unfortunately.

AshleyMB:

[56:05] That is accurate.

Matt G:

[56:07] It's hard to say. Well, thank you for sharing your story in this way. If people want to first check out your podcast, please tell us how to do that. But also if they want to get in your circle, learn more about you, anything like that, what's the best way to get in your orbit and connect with you?

AshleyMB:

[56:23] Yeah, yeah. So my podcast, you can find it on most major platforms, just look up No Straight Path. And you can also find it on the HubSpot Podcast Network website. And for me personally, I am a millennial, so I still need to like get to TikTok. I know a lot of people are getting there, but I'm still like an Instagram person. And so you can follow me personally on Instagram for a lot of just like the storytelling and personal life stuff, Ms underscore Menzies. So Ms. Menzies. and then the podcast for more of like the inspirational content and stories of other folks. And that's no underscore straight underscore path. And also on LinkedIn, Ashley Menzies Babatunde.

Matt G:

[57:15] Perfect. I will put all the links there so people don't have to like pause this and write it down. So we'll give all the links in the show notes, people you can connect with. Ashley, thank you for telling your story in this way and being willing to answer my weird questions whenever they popped up. I really appreciate you being a part of this journey because everyone's story will resonate with someone and it validates my experiences. So thank you for being you and thank you for sharing your story.

AshleyMB:

[57:41] Thank you, Matt. Thank you so much for having me. This was a very beautiful and therapeutic conversation actually for me. So I appreciate it.

Matt G:

[57:48] Well, I appreciate that. And I also appreciate everyone that's listening. If you have the time and you would like to leave a review for this podcast or go to Ashley's podcast and leave her a review and some ratings. We love that. If not, just share it with a friend if you think they might need to hear Ashley's story today. And with that, I'm going to say goodbye and I'll be back next week with a brand new episode of the Life Shift podcast. Thanks again, Ashley.

AshleyMB:

[58:11] Thank you.