Reclaiming My Life: Emily Holland's Path to Sobriety and Self-Love

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Today's guest is Emily Holland. Emily is a creative consultant. She's an outdoor enthusiast, and she's someone who has truly and courageously embraced life's challenges to really rediscover the most authentic version of herself, at least for 2025. In this episode, she opens up about her decision to quit drinking in 2020 after years, and she means years, of using alcohol as a way to numb her emotions.

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She takes us through this journey of self-discovery from truly grieving that relationship with alcohol to navigating the complexities of mental health and a battle with anxiety. She candidly reflects on the empowering process of reconnecting with her emotions and finding that strength in her vulnerability. This conversation isn't just about sobriety. It's about the courage it takes to face life's challenges head on, that ongoing nature of healing.

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and the changes that come from these small, pivotal decisions. So whether you're looking for inspiration to make a life shift of your own, or you simply just want to hear an uplifting story of resilience and growth, this episode is probably one that you'll resonate with. I did that dry January, and I felt awesome afterwards. You always feel so accomplished. You're like, wow, I just did a very hard thing. It's great. Like, you build that confidence up. And it was ski season. And so...

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I cracked a hard seltzer, which was some of my favorite things to drink because I love regular seltzer. So was like an easy, this is great. I cracked a seltzer and I literally drank like half of it. And I already felt like I wasn't in control of my limbs. Like I felt like I didn't have control over my body as much as I did when I wasn't drinking. And I don't know why it was like this drink that happened, but it did. And I was like,

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Oh my God, in my mind is like, I hate this. Like, I don't like this feeling of being out of control. So then I like looked at myself in the drop down mirror of my car and I just like kind of notated to myself like this is the last drink that I want to have right now. I'm Maciel Huli and this is the Life Shift. Candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

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Hello, my friends. Welcome to LifeShift Podcast. I am here with Emily. Hello, Emily. Hello. How are you? Do you want the real answer? I always want the real answer. None of this small talk BS. Let's do it. I'm tired. I am tired. I'm going through a season in my life in which I am exhausted. And I think that that's okay to admit. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

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Yes, and I'm sure a lot of people listening are like, yes, thank you for saying the real, the truth when someone asks you how you're doing. I think it's one thing to say like, I'm pretty tired and that's okay. A different thing to say, I'm spiraling into a deep depression because of X, Y, and Z to a random stranger. So, you know, we have the balance here. We're friends, we're friends, so you can say the thing. We go way back, but not really.

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Thank you for wanting to be a part of the Life Shift podcast. Before we jump into it, the show, the Life Shift podcast exists because in my own life, when I was eight, my mom was killed in a motorcycle accident. And at that point in time, I lived with my mom full time. My father lived states away and it was like late 80s, early 90s and nobody was talking about how to help a kid grieve or really an adult probably. I just...

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absorbed from the people around me, my dad and my grandmother and the other adults around me that they just wanted to know that I was going to be okay. So I put on the mask that I was okay. But all along, I'm thinking, do other people have these like line in the sand moments in which from one day to the next or one thought to the next, everything is different. So now I get the opportunity to talk to people that I otherwise probably never would have interacted with about their deeply personal moments.

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so that we can feel more connected as humans. And it's really just been quite a journey that I never really expected. And on top of that, such a healing journey. So I hope the same for people listening, but for me, I'm just so grateful for all these conversations. So thank you for wanting to be a part of it in this way. Yeah, and I think it says a lot about you, Matt, because these are like the episodes that you have are.

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heavy a lot of the time, you know, and there's some serious, serious stuff being talked about and people are trusting you with that and your story. So I think you should give yourself a little bit of a pat on the back for being able to hold space for, I know hold space is like a cheesy thing to say nowadays, but you are, you're holding space for those types of stories to be told. And I think that's really, really beautiful. I appreciate that. And I think it's, I think it's important to model for other people as well.

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because I don't know about you, but growing up, it was like, we don't dig into hard conversations with others, right? Like you keep that behind closed doors, you sweep it under the rug, all the different sayings that we talked about. And really what I find is like, I have such a deeper connection to other humans when I know all the parts, not just the awards that they won, the promotions that they got, the beautiful car that they have, but rather like the regular human.

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struggles and triumphs and the things that come along with it. So I accept that compliment and also hope that others feel inspired to sit down and ask uncomfortable questions because who knows what you'll get out of it. Yeah. And even if you wanted to like get one of those question games to like get good at it or get more comfortable with it and frame it as like, oh, it's a fun game that we're going to play. And that might make you more comfortable. But I'm known in my friend group as bringing up

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the deep and meaningfuls. I can see it on my face when I'm about to ask a question that's not, are you and how's work? So we are kind of spirits. Oh, I love it. I love it. don't want to have meaningless conversations. I mean, they're necessary to just be warm and kind to random strangers on the street, but with my friends and with my people and people I'm trying to get to know, I don't really have any interest in understanding what you do nine to five. care about

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what made you who you are. And that's why I want to about five. Yeah, why you do your nine to five? Like why you are the way you are? Why you react to certain things certain ways like there's so much to dig into with every single person. And that's just way more interesting. Right. And then we evolve because we learn new things or we get introduced to things that we never even considered before. We're like, Oh, my life could be different now because I've, you know, been introduced to something so

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I love that. And it's a perfect segue. I don't know if you plan that, but I think what I like to start with before we get into your personal story, maybe you can tell us who Emily is in 2025. Like, how do you identify in this world that we're living in right now? Well, I haven't answered this in a few months and I, it's changed, I'll say. I think first and foremost that I am a person who

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Highly values connection, connection above everything else. So that's with my friends, that's with my family, that's with my partner, that's with my dog, and that's with nature. So that's like the biggest value that I have is that connective tissue for all of those pieces. From a work perspective, less fun and interesting, we'll get to the deep and meaningful soon, but.

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From a work perspective, I co-own a podcast consulting agency and I also do community management. Both of those things kind of scratch that connection itch for me in a lot of different ways, which is very exciting. I'm very into outdoor sports. I'm trail runner, rock climber. I do ski. I'm not very good at it, but I do ski sometimes. It's hard. Skiing is very difficult. I learned as an adult and so I'm just so scared. I'm always so scared. I say I'm a skier, but...

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I know if you can get down the hill, which is what I can. Yeah. And if I can't on my skis, I will take them off and walk. Yeah. And I'm a person who just like believes in in warmth and being considerate and kind to other people and also being a silly goose like a lot of the time. Yeah. I mean, I love that. And I bet nature kind of brings a lot of that out in you as a human because there's something I mean, having lived

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in Florida for most of my life, but I took this like life sabbatical for a year in Colorado in the mountains. And it was it was unlike any other outdoor experience I had because it was a cheesy word, but majestic. was like really weird to experience because you're like, wow, like this mountain looks so big when I'm on it.

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But then from far away, it's so small. And it was just so fascinating to me and how healing it was and quiet. And it was, I can imagine why you are in Colorado and why you love it. Well, yeah, and it's a sense of awe too. mean, there's times where I have a really bad day or really hard day and I'll be talking to my partner. like, don't know why I'm so upset. don't know. He's like, when's the last time you went on a trail run? Do you need to go do that? Do you need to go?

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be amongst nature. Have you seen a friend this week? Like, let's go through the checklist of what you know to be true about yourself and then we can plan from there. Well, that's beautiful too. I mean, what a great model to have out there in the world too is like someone that knows what you need and asks you in a kind way and helps you along instead of like, oh, shut up or, oh, go figure it out or whatever it may be. But like asking you nice questions, I think that's beautiful.

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I love it and to your skiing thing I learned at like 35 and it was and with a bunch of eight year olds and they're like, why are you taking so long? And I'm like, you don't know what it's gonna feel like when I fall versus when you fall. You're made of rubber. It's different. Things are different from the ground. Well, I love that. And I love the community thing. And it seems like I know work talk is boring, but a nine to five that that scratches that community itch that

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connection with others is a beautiful way to exist in the world too because now when you show up for those things, it's not like I have to go to work, but now I can, you know, like I have to work obviously, but I get to do things that I love within that space. Yeah. And not every day, like obviously there's with being self-employed as, well as being a podcaster, there's tons of things that are like, Oh my God, I can't believe I have to do that taxes for example. What? I hate taxes now.

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I always hated them, but now I really hate them. Yeah, it's much worse when you're a business owner. Well, I love that. And I bet your story will also feed into why you do some of the things you do now. So I'd love for you to paint the picture of your life leading up to this life shift moment. And feel free to paint back however far back you need to to kind of set the scene. But this is your painting. So we'll go on this journey with you. OK, great.

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I'm not a very good artist, so we'll see how this goes. Okay. Subjective. It's so true. I stopped drinking in 2020, February of 2020. Weird timing for that. But I had been drinking alcohol since I was 13 or 14 years old. So I had a long relationship with alcohol. And I really see it as that, relationship. Because while there were some really

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fun times and fun nights, fun moments with alcohol. I primarily used it to numb out and hide feelings that I had. So going into high school, I was partying every weekend. I was driving drunk a lot once I got my license and just putting myself in also pretty dangerous situations, I would say.

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And that continued through college, but was like, I would say a little bit safer, if that makes sense. Like I had a better group around me and you know, it's all contained to like a campus. So that's helpful. But when I got out of college, it just kind of continued. I worked at a startup too, and there was this culture. It was basically like an extension of a frat house where I worked. And

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My relationship with alcohol just kept continuing and I have family members who are, you know, alcoholics or had struggles with alcohol. So I wasn't unaware of that as an issue, but I was using it very much to like numb out from a lot of other things in my life. And a lot of those things being self-hatred. I mean, it was a lot of things around self-hatred. I...

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developed bulimia when I was 18 or 19. When I went to college, I was incredibly depressed and down on my life and didn't really think there was any meaning in continuing on. I say sometimes that there was nothing after 24. Like I had no view of my life at all. I was just kind of like, all right, this is it. I'm just gonna...

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drink and party all the time and that's going to be it. But when I met my partner, I think I was 24. Seems like we were babies when we met, now that I'm in my 30s. But when I met my partner, I was still drinking, but I was kind of starting to slow down a little bit and really start to do some internal reflection and starting to go to therapy. I had a terrible therapist, that's another conversation. But I was starting to work on myself and trying to understand

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why I'm doing what I'm doing, why I'm feeling the way I'm feeling. And that helps me in the beginning of that relationship not completely numb out from him as well. And a lot of people say that, you can't love yourself until, or you can't love another person until you love yourself. For me, that wasn't really how it worked. That what I found was that I...

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saw that I was worthy of love from him loving me. And then I was able to, I don't know if we'll use the word full love at that point yet, but I was able to see that I was worthy of love from that. Exactly, yeah. Which is really interesting, an episode that just came out this week that we're recording is I had a guest who quoted RuPaul saying what he says at the end of the show.

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If you can't love yourself, how the hell are you going to love somebody else? And he's like, I disagree. Because Tristan went through this period in which he thought he was unlovable. And when he started to see someone falling in love with him, he realized it was possible. And that's when he started to your point. So it's like not weird at all. You're the second person in a short amount of time that I've talked to who said, you know, seeing someone else see the possibility in me created

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a space for me to say, maybe I can also care about myself more, maybe not fully love, but see that I'm worthy of something more than maybe what you were giving yourself. because I was not treating myself with any sort of love or compassion. And that's still a continuous journey. Like every therapist I have, you know, works with me on that. So it's it keeps going. But, you know, we were in a relationship for

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three or four years. And I learned a lot during that about like, yeah, showing up for someone like compromising, feeling out how to have difficult conversations, not repeating patterns from our parents, things like that. Did you recognize yourself as an alcoholic? Or was this something like, I have it under control. I'm not really having issues. That's a good question. I think when I was in college in like early 20s, I would probably consider myself that way.

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but between like 25 to 28, no. I was like drinking maybe once a week at that point, or was like, you know, depending on the season, know, summer is a little crazier, you know, whatever. But I never felt, that's another thing too, is I never really felt like I belonged in the spaces that, you know, alcoholics go to. So like AA to me in my mind, it's like,

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old men talking about horrific stories while like chain smoking cigarettes. And I was like, I don't really feel like that's my vibe. It's helped so many people. not saying it's not helpful, but it just like wasn't for me. And so it was also like, who do I talk to about this stuff? Like who's gonna say the thing, you know, that maybe drinking is not for everyone. recognize it as a problem though? Or did you think, I got it, this is fine.

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Because looking back, you can recognize it as a problem, By telling your story, but at the time, it's hard sometimes to admit it to ourselves. There were a few times where I would notice, and this is like the last two years or so, where maybe we'd go out to dinner, me and my partner, or I'd be with friends. And I'd have like one or two drinks, and I would be like way more emotionally reactive than I would be if I hadn't drank. And so I'd get like really in my head about a weird friend interaction that happened or

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I would get mad at my partner for seemingly no reason, or like no logical reason. There was probably a reason within me. And so there was these moments of like, okay, I quote unquote have it under control. Like I'm not losing my job. I'm not going to jail. I'm not crashing my car. All these like big, big markers that people think of. But I am not feeling like I'm living the life I really wanna live.

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That's a challenge. think that's, because they always say like, admitting you have a problem, this is probably so cliche, but you know, admitting that you have a problem is the first step. But sometimes it's hard to determine whether or not

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Like, do we meet the threshold? Right? Like, am I doing, you know, whatever that level is that we've been taught? But there really isn't one because it's different for everyone. I would imagine that there's probably some kind of feeling that's different or a threshold that's different in which an addiction is a more serious problem than just a casual encounter with. Yeah. And this is the same with eating disorders, too.

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you can rationalize anything away if it looks like your life is normal. If you can say, well, I don't look like the runway models, so I don't have a problem with my orthorexia. Oh, well, that person got a DUI. I'm not getting a DUI, so everything's fine. I didn't show up to work smelling a vodka, so I'm good. So there's this comparison game that people play, and I did too, of like, well, I think I'm good because

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all these things are like, on the paper, I'm succeeding at life. Things are going well. But inside I was like, oh God, like I don't feel settled in myself. Did other people recognize you? Or maybe they just knew you one way. So there was like no other way, right? Because I always feel like there were periods of my teenage years in which I was probably like so depressed, but I thought I was like.

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rocking the mask. know, like nobody knew until I went home and like had disordered eating and all other things that were battling me when behind closed doors. But I thought I was winning at life. And now I talk to some of those friends and they're like, yeah, we knew you were really struggling, but nobody had the tools, you know. So I wonder if the people around you were encouraging you or pointing things out or even your partner. Well, I think early on, like there was definitely no one who

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saw what I was doing as a problem because I was hanging out with people who reinforced those behaviors. So lot of people who are just like in it to party or partying even harder than me and like doing bigger amounts of drugs than I was doing, you know, like all kinds of things. I think what actually scared me and this is kind of the opposite of what you're asking is when I was first dating my partner, there was a few times that I like browned out while we were hanging out or at a wedding or something like that.

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And like the next day or in recapping it, he was like, I can't even tell when you're drunk. you don't seem any different. And to me, I was like, oh, I don't like that. don't, for some reason that didn't feel good to me to hear. No, I get that. So I think that was like actually a big kick in the butt later on in our, in my drinking relationship. Yeah.

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because it probably plants a seed of like, oh, I thought I, know, like everyone else you see, oh, they're drunk, they're not. And here it is, like, there's no difference. like, what is- I'm like, is that, does that mean my tolerance is really good? Or like, I'm just masking it really well? Did I learn some tools from other people? Like, what's going on with what am I like when I'm not drinking? You know, yeah, I can imagine. what kind of mask am I wearing in both situations? And the mask thing is really interesting because similarly, I've had people tell me, my partner included,

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Like I'm pretty extroverted. I'm pretty like gregarious. I give people shit. I try to like go back and forth, you know, like little back and forth, especially when I was like around a bunch of salespeople in past careers. And I think people were really surprised to know that I have sometimes crippling anxiety and I'm like, or at the time I was like incredibly insecure and they see this like fun bubbly girl and they think, Oh, look at her. mean, she's doing

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Great. And so I think that like contributed to my isolation feeling of like, okay, no one's really seeing me because I'm like putting on this mask, but I don't want to take the mask off because I don't want them to actually see me. It's such a human story. Whether it's like you have this addiction to whatever, or you have this relationship with alcohol. It's like, so many of us can relate to this idea of what we're putting out on the outside is not necessarily what we would like to.

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But at the same time, if we put out what we would like to, we'd be in a ball on the floor curled up, scared because like, people gonna accept that, like me, love me, whatever it may be? And it's like, just by you telling your story, someone hears it and it's like, oh, well, maybe I have the permission to not do that. And we can learn from other people's experiences in this way. So I think that's so relatable, just the masking thing. I did it for 100 years.

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I'm not even 100, but I've done it for 100 years. And I think we all do, men and women and everyone, right? Like does it. It's not unique to both of us, right? I mean, everyone does it. People have talked on your podcast about doing it as well. And it's sad and pervasive for, if we're just talking the binary genders, like it's pervasive for men too, because I don't know if you watched the documentary, The Mask You Live In or something like that. It's very good. It's basically about

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toxic masculinity and how men are taught to push things down and all of that stuff. And then on the other side, it's like, if you're not grateful, if you're a woman, if you're not grateful and kind and gracious and all these things, then you're a huge bitch and you're not gonna get where you wanna go. So it's like, no one's winning. No one's winning in the mask life. And why are we doing it? I think it's like, for so long, I think we just absorb what we think the world needs of us.

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Once I was able to approach the world in which I could be like a full human, and I know I say that a lot, but like, I really felt when I could tell people that I was not good was like the first time where I felt like, and that's okay. Like that's like, you're just being a human. Like you're gonna have good days, bad days, sad days, you're gonna be mad, you're gonna, you know, all the things are okay, but growing up, it was like, you're a boy, no crying, you can be mad or you can be happy.

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And then I guess if you're a girl, you can be emotional and you can be like, what do you get to be? know, like what are your rules when you're growing up? Yeah, well, I don't know if emotional is allowed really for me either, but. But you were masking that, right? Yeah, I'm very emotional. I'm like, I cry all the time for good reasons and bad reasons. Yeah, well, and that's I don't mind that. Like I watch.

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the Oscars, Grammy, any award show, if someone gives a speech that's even usually a woman, even slightly moving, I'm crying. I'm always going to cry. And I like that about myself now. But I think I hid that a lot of the time because I was nervous that if I showed my emotions, that's just another way of showing your vulnerability, you know, if you really show your full, the fullness. Were you not allowed to show your fullness as a kid? Is that kind of why you went towards that relationship?

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I think that I actually feel like I was allowed to be emotional as a kid, a normal amount of emotional. I was the last of three sisters. So I think at that point, I'm like a very typical youngest child. Like she gets to do whatever she wants. She goes out on the weekends, you know, whatever. She has no curfew. Like she gets to do whatever she wants. And I think some of that was also

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a little like too much of a long leash, you know, it's like I kind of wanted more parameters looking back now. Yeah, I think it could be seen on the outside as which is probably not the intention. So let me put that out there. I think it can be seen as like, oh, my parents don't care. can do whatever I want. They just don't care to make rules or whatever. And they made these rules. Do they care more about my sister because they she had to come home at 10 and I can do whatever. you know,

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Jokes on them I just stuck out even when they did try to do a curfew. No, I know and that's what I felt at the time. But looking back now, I'm like, no, they were trying to give me like freedom and I think they actually just trusted me to make good decisions. that might have been a mistake too because I didn't make very many of them. The other thing too is, and this is work that I'm continuously doing, is just like trying to give younger...

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Emily a lot more of what I wish I had, whether it's from my family or from society or whatever. Or yourself. Yeah, or myself, exactly. One of the questions that one of my many therapists over the years has told me is to just ask yourself, what is the most loving thing that I can do for myself in this moment? And that has helped a lot when I have moments of like, I'm going to break down or...

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I'm exhausted or I'm grieving or whatever the thing is. So that's helped a lot and just implementing that question has changed a lot. think it's a beautiful practice to look back on that version of us and with grace because we probably, you included, were doing the best you knew how to do with the tools that you had. And the tools that you had were something that would numb you so that you didn't feel the crappy things that you felt. So I mean,

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It's like we look back and we're like, yeah, was that a mistake? Maybe. Would I do it again? No. But those younger versions of ourselves, we were just trying to survive. Yeah. also their brains were just not developed. And just thinking about that too, I know that's more of a logistic, pragmatic way of looking at it. But it's like, girl, your brain wasn't even developed until you met your partner. Of course you were going through it. Yeah, everyone does.

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I love the seed that your partner planted. I love the... I don't love that it happened because I'm sure it was a shitty feeling, but the fact that he kind of made you awaken to that idea, would you look at that as kind of like another step towards kind of finding this sobriety? How much before was that conversation, do you think? I think that was like...

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two or three years before I stopped. But I think that was one of the seeds. That was like a mini life shift of like, yeah, just planting the seed of like, oh, maybe I don't need this eventually. And so I kept saying that too. I was like, I think eventually maybe I won't drink between like three years to 2020.

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And there was like, I did dry August sometimes. did, you I just like took time off from it here and there just to be like, okay, You didn't need it to get through your days, it sounds like. No, which I'm very thankful for. I know a lot of people, you know, through conversations that I've had that are physically dependent on it. And I have like the utmost respect, especially when those folks are like, I gotta stop this because it just has such a stronger hold, you know.

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But no, I didn't need it to get through my day. Did I need it to deal with hard moments? Yeah, like my aunt died very unexpectedly in 2018, I believe. And I just left work and drank a whole bottle of wine. I was like, I can't even process this right now. I also say now, I never say I'm not going to drink forever. I never put that on myself because

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I don't know what my life has in store for me. Like maybe I'll lose someone very, very close to me, you know, before it's their time. And I don't want to like put this rule on myself that if I feel like I need that in the moment to help me through a process to like numb, you know, I'm not going to like keep myself from it in that time. I think that's healthy. I think that's healthy. And I kind of think of the way you

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discuss the way that you looked at alcohol as like kind of this numbing agent. It's kind of like, I have a headache, I need to take an ibuprofen in a way. Like, I mean, I'm simplifying it a lot, But in a way, like I'm not gonna not take that because it's helping me. It's numbing that pain in a physical way. So I can kind of see why.

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how you looked at the alcohol in a way that feels very similar to that. was like, I have a headache. I'm going to solve this. I want to avoid having this. Okay, I have a heartache. I want to avoid having this. So I'm going to numb it with alcohol. Yeah. So I mean, who knows if that would happen. I, yeah, I know that a lot of people also in AA or other 12 step programs are like one day at a time, one day at a time, which I think that's really smart. mean, to not

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lay out your entire life of like, can never do this again. What am I going to do at my wedding? I'm not going to have a champagne toast. I'm not going to, you know, it also introduces shame. I don't know about you. You feel that because it's like, well, if I don't succeed, then I'm a failure. If you're setting that up when, know, and maybe some people have to quit forever because of a medical condition or something they've gone too far and then medical condition. And that's a different story. But in your case, it

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You take one day at a time. can't predict what's gonna happen tomorrow. Yeah, totally. I feel great about my life right now, but who knows? Yeah. I don't So you just celebrated that. So how did you get to kind of making this, not final decision, but this big decision in which it's kind of shifted you? Yeah. So I did a final dry January, my last one, and now every January is dry.

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And I love doing Dry January. And for anyone who's like curious about their relationship with alcohol, it doesn't need to be Dry January, although I find that that's really helpful because a lot of people are doing it. So it's like an excuse, you know. But I just think it's a really good thing because one, you'll get basically data, right? Like if it's very difficult for you to not drink for a full month, that's information. That's helpful to know. If it's very easy for you, that's also good information to know.

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maybe what is it bringing you? I'm not on a rampage to get everyone to stop drinking, but just if anyone listening is curious about their relationship, that's what I would recommend is trying to take some time off and see what happens. Yeah, see how you change. Yeah, and also if you're physically dependent on alcohol, I'm not a doctor, so talk to your medical provider for that. These are just recommendations from your experience. Yes, just want to have a disclaimer there. I did that dry January and I felt

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awesome afterwards. You always feel so accomplished. You're like, wow, I just did a very hard thing. It's great. Like you build that confidence up. And then as I said, we ski and it was ski season. And so I had, you know, a couple of beers here and there and I was kind of like, what? I don't really like this. Like, why am I doing this? And we got to a point where I like have the very specific memory of this because it was so important to me, obviously. But I

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was skiing at Winter Park, which is a great resort here in Colorado. With some friends, we tailgated a bit. It was just such a good day, beautiful out, great. And I cracked a hard seltzer, which was some of my favorite things to drink because I love regular seltzer. So was like an easy, this is great. I cracked a seltzer and I literally drank like half of it. And I already felt like...

34:59

I wasn't in control of my limbs. Like I felt like I didn't have control over my body as much as I did when I wasn't drinking. And I don't know why it was like this drink that happened because I had like a few before that in February, but it did. And I was like, oh my God, in my mind is like, I hate this. Like, I don't like this feeling of being out of control. And like I said, no one in my past in the last five years would have said like,

35:30

Oh, you're always drunk or like, no one was like saying that stuff to me, but I didn't feel good when I was drinking. So then I like looked at myself in the dropdown mirror of my car and I just like kind of notated to myself like, this is the last drink that I want to have right now. And I don't even think I finished it. I think I might've thrown it out because I was just so...

35:55

like my mind was blown. was like, I can't believe this tiny, tiny moment was like, I did so many bad things while I was drinking earlier and I just like, it just happened to be this little, yeah, the life shift was a tiny second. And I was like, cool, I'm just not going to do this for a while. And at first I said, okay, I'm going to do six months, see how that goes. And then I was like, why not make it a year? Let's just make it a year. And then yes, I've just celebrated

36:24

five years recently. And it was a weird time because it was like a month before COVID lockdown. So in some ways that was really good because I couldn't go out. I couldn't like go to bars or go to breweries as we often do here in Colorado. So that was a blessing. But I also was like, oh my God, I am trapped in my house and there's no alcohol.

36:50

I felt like an exposed nerve basically for that first year. I was just like relearning how to experience life. Yeah. Did you approach healing in other ways during that or were you like one thing at a time, Emily? One thing at a time. Yeah. Well, when I got to Colorado in 2019, like mid 2019, I restarted therapy pretty quickly because I was like, I know that I need this and I need a better therapist than what I had in Massachusetts. Where in Massachusetts?

37:21

Did I know I lived in Boston for a while. I was born in Lawrence, so it's... Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. I don't tell many people that because that's... That's something else. Yeah. Well, I lived in Somerville and in Medford. I did too. Okay. Well, we have a lot of crossover with Colorado and then I'm going to Orlando next week. It's really... It's wild. We're basically the same person. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I found a new therapist and...

37:50

She was great. She was like a little bit more woo-woo than I am, which I actually much appreciated because it kind of like pushed me outside of my comfort zone a lot. And she was the one who said one of the most impactful things like that during that time, she was like, you need to grieve your relationship with alcohol because it was such a big part of your life. And it gave you a lot. Like it made you feel safe in some situations and made you feel

38:18

It made you feel more gregarious. It made you connect with people sometimes. And I was like, wow, I didn't think about it like that, but it was a really long-term relationship that I had. And so she helped me through the process of like grieving that relationship, which took a while, know? Grief is a weird thing. And the first, I think, three summers, every summer, because one of my favorite things is if people from the Northeast are listening, like Dell's...

38:48

Summer Shandy from Nera Gansett. It's like a lemon beer. It's so good. And I wish there was like an equivalent for non-alcoholic, but it's not really there yet. Hopefully soon. Athletic Brewing has one, but it's just like, it's just not the same. It's not the same. So anyways, I just had these like moments as many people do when they're grieving. And I don't want to equate this to like grieving a loved one because obviously it's a different thing, but it...

39:17

was like a moment of, you know, just get kind of like punched and your shoulders hunch over and you're like, oh, God, that hurts to miss it like that. But then, you know, to know that like, okay, you gave me a lot, but at the end of the day, it just wasn't what I was looking for. so, okay, shoulders back, let's, you know, move through it. So she helped me a lot with that. And...

39:42

Then I also started just like reaching out to people and started my own podcast about sobriety. And that was really helpful because I just felt like, oh, I'm not alone. Like there's other people in the outdoor recreation space that are doing this, which was really uplifting for me. Yeah, I would imagine that hearing other people's take some of the weirdness away that maybe you felt about certain things. Like, why did I do that?

40:12

for at least for me, I had an experience where someone on the show, her dad died when she was five. And in her teen years, she did something that I did. And what I did when I did it, I was like, I'm weird. I'm never telling anyone that I did this. And so on that episode, I was like, yeah, and I used to pretend that my mom was in witness protection, or I convinced myself that my mom was in witness protection. And she was coming back someday. And she's like, I did too. And that moment, it was like this validation of like,

40:41

I'm not weird. Like, these are things that people think and, and like, everything kind of felt like better, less embarrassed. I don't know what the description would be there. But I can imagine in the same kind of space talking to others about some of these experiences or the way you approached it or thought about something, you're like, Oh, okay, nothing to be ashamed of out there because I'm not the only one that felt that way. Totally. that's what I mean, that's what also AA is great for too, because people tell stories and you're like,

41:10

Whoa, I did that too. And I thought that was like really bad, like everyone's sharing vulnerable here and that's really beautiful. Or, you know, other communities that have similar or this podcast. Or all the people that you probably work with. bet there's a lot of instances in which you work a lot with women, right? Yeah, tried to. Yeah. I mean, I think there's probably a lot of podcasts out there where

41:35

they may be like you said, you kind of were conditioned that you had to be a certain way or things felt like you had to be a certain way. But now you talk to these other women or these podcasts have these conversations. You're just like, here we are all just hiding behind this wall that we didn't need to. But guess what? So I mean, I think that's beautiful. Yeah. Curious if because you said the therapist kind of had you grieve this relationship that you had with alcohol. Did you feel that you needed

42:05

that you had to like rediscover yourself or did you feel like that part wasn't lost? Because I can see that if someone was like a deep in an addiction and like that was something it had to do every day, they would have to find a new version of themselves. But your story seems a little bit different in that way. Yeah, I did have to rediscover myself in a lot of ways. And I mean, because I started drinking when I was 13. And so like some of the experiences I would have like going to weddings, funerals,

42:35

bachelorettes, all kinds of things. Life, dinner with friends. dinner with friends, all these things I kind of had to at least re-navigate how I would handle each of those situations. And then the other piece was like, because even though I wasn't like addicted to alcohol at that point, I was still numbing pretty consistently. And so whether it was one drink or four drinks, I was like,

43:01

oh, this is what it feels to feel emotions. Like now I'm really getting back to myself. And before that, I talked jokingly about the award shows and like crying about that. That's the kind of stuff that like, I always want to feel that now. Like it's not something that I probably, like I didn't experience that when I was drinking. And so it's like, I can see these like clear, oh, you weren't being yourself when you were drinking.

43:30

pushing down not only your emotions, but also the fullness of who you are. And that makes me even more gung-ho to like keep it going one day at a time because I don't want to lose that. And I wrote a piece like a couple of years ago about my first powder day. And for people who don't ski, a powder day is when there's really good smell, it's like really deep and it's really fun to ski through powder. And it was my first

44:00

powder day and I wasn't drinking anymore. So if anyone has experienced powder skiing, they understand that there's kind of a come down afterwards because it's so freaking fun. Like the hype is really, really high. And this was the first time I had a come down without an actual come down, like a drink or something. And I wrote this piece about how like, well, I just, it's hard to not have the thing to like take the edge off.

44:30

But it also is like, Oh, I'm experienced the fullness of life right now because I don't do that. And for me, that is definitely worth it. And every day. That's a challenge. Do you, do you feel like you need to find a new solve at all? know like having that solve for so long, did it like, do you, do you find something in your life that is maybe a quote unquote healthier version of that solve, or do you just kind of sit in it?

44:59

Yeah, I think that I've always, it's not a healthier version and this is something I'm currently working on, so I'll just be like very transparent about that. I mentioned how I've always been an anxious person. Like my relationship with alcohol is 13. I don't, it probably three was when I started being an anxious person. So similarly, I have this companion with me at all times of being anxiety ridden. And I don't think it was a coincidence that

45:29

When I stopped drinking, I stopped sleeping very well. I was like a great sleeper before that. Like I literally would be like talking and then like out and done for nine hours. We're there. So COVID happened. Maybe it was a little bit of COVID. Maybe it was a little bit of like, oh, I'm entering my thirties, like new decade. What's my career like? Ah, existential crisis. But all to say.

45:53

I got to a point at the end of 2024, so like almost five years into not drinking, and I was like, oh, this is the next cross I have to bear. I have to take care of my anxiety because I was having like a panic attack a week. I was having mental breakdowns it was like not good for anyone, myself, my partner, my family. Like no one was having a good time with it. And so now I'm sort of on the next iteration, I guess, of like healing and trying to figure out what that...

46:22

biggest potential is for my big life. I'm working with therapist again, another therapist. I was really mostly against medication for anxiety for a long time for myself. I said, I'm going to try it. It's time. I've been on that since middle of January and it has literally changed my life. I am such a happier person. I'm such a less anxious person.

46:53

I'm building the skills, the coping skills with my therapist to be able to be like, okay, cool, I'm eventually going to go off this, but it just kind of like helped me re-regulate for a little while. Well, thank you for sharing the honesty. think that there's no shame that we automatically assume sometimes that we're like, I can't tell this because people are going to think X, Y, and Z, but like,

47:16

that's so real and so many people are experiencing these things and don't tell anyone, which only makes it worse in my opinion, because then you keep it to yourself and you're just like spiraling on your own. But if other people know, it's not that they're gonna help you, but it's like one less burden to bear that we put on ourselves. I feel the same, like if I'm having a really tough time, I will tell the people around me.

47:42

I'm not asking for them to help me. I'm not asking for any of those things, but for them to know helps me mask less, right? Like you probably by letting people know in your life that certain things are affecting you, you don't have to put on a mask. Yeah. And like most of my core friends know that I've started this journey and they are like checking in, like, how are you feeling as you ramp up? Cause there's like, you know, there's things that can happen with drugs like this. So

48:10

that feels like, oh, my community cares about this as well. And that makes me feel really seen. you know, I think, of course, in any podcast, I would love to, or anytime I tell this story about not drinking, I would always love to like tie it up with a bow at the end and be like, and now my life is so good and I'm never going to work on anything else. But that's just, that's just not it. it's, it's like similar to me as

48:38

when you move somewhere and you expect your entire life to be different, it's like wherever you go, there you are. So you're going to have to deal with yourself in some capacity. And it took me almost five years to come out of drinking and to really like reacclimate myself to myself to be like, okay, and now we're onto the next thing. you know, this is my next life shift. So TBD, what happens next? Exactly. And you have the nature piece, which I'm sure is super healing in a lot of ways. I'm sure that... Yeah.

49:08

there are moments in which you step outside nature or you go running. I don't understand trail running, but good on you. I love that you said that it's like, there is no beautiful bow. I don't think anyone has a beautiful bow, right? Like from their big old story. I was saying it earlier, like this journey of this podcast has been so healing in an unexpected way. Like I thought

49:32

I had closed the door on grief of losing my mom because I was eight and now I'm in my 40s. So it's like, it so long ago, but then having these conversations reminds me of humanity. Like you said, of like, this is like your full self. Like, so I hear these stories and I'm like, you're right. There's that to work with. And so it just opens up the aperture a little bit more, you know? It's so important. And I had a woo woo therapist that helped me crack open that.

50:00

that thought of a little different story, but she was like, you realize that everything you've done since you were eight years old was with that scared eight year old brain that someone else was going to leave you. And it was similar to you. Like the clouds parted and I'm like, oh, now I can move forward. Right. And so find the right therapist.

50:22

Shout out to woo-woo therapists because even if you're not woo-woo, you could benefit a lot from them. They really get you out of your comfort zone and say some fire one-liners. Well, and I love that you kept going too because it's so easy to say, okay, I'll try therapy and you find the first one that you pick from a random list and doesn't work and then it's so easy to give up. But instead you got to try again.

50:49

and you got to start over and you got to start over. Mine was the fifth therapist that hit. All the other ones sucked. Or they like sucked for you, know, like maybe they're good in other ways, but like, yeah. And it's really hard now with like telehealth too that it's hard to get a vibe check in that initial conversation. So, but keep going y'all. Keep finding a therapist. What is the biggest like Emily

51:18

2015 to Emily 2025. Like what's the biggest difference between you now and then like in your opinion? I think self belief. I think when I was younger, I had no confidence in myself to do anything, figure anything out I needed and I still need some external validation. I am a three on the Enneagram. So if that tells you anything now,

51:47

I look back at the last five years and the things that I've done, like physically, but also leave my job, take a big leap, build a business, get engaged to a great guy. Like all these things are things that I need to have self-belief for. And I don't think I would have thought it was possible 10 years ago at all. have confidence is so hard to gain, but once you get it,

52:14

becomes almost like a snowball effect, I hope, for you, in which little successes become bigger ones. Yes, I like that metaphor. My friend uses a different metaphor, which is a cookie jar. And every time you build confidence, you put a confidence cookie in the cookie jar, which I'm just like a sweets person. I had Sour Patch Kids before we got on. like, you know, that works for Skittles in my drawer right here. So I understand. Oh, dang. That's great. It's a giant bag. Don't tell anyone.

52:43

I think it's important to realize that we're always a work in progress and that we can change. And in your case, you made the decision to do so. Perhaps some physical things happened in that moment to kind of push you over the little edge to kind of make that decision. But we have the power to do all that. Like, even myself, when I was really super depressed, like I had a way that I could move through it and I found it took a while.

53:11

But I found it and I found a way to do it. And now I can have these conversations and know how to take care of myself after having a deep conversation. So I love that for you. And I'm excited to see what you conquer next. Because I mean, Emily 3.0 is coming, coming soon. And then four and then five and then six. mean, however many you want to have. I think you're every decade. I'll probably do another one.

53:36

at least a couple of decades, whatever you whatever you feel like doing. I support it. I love it. I hope you continue being honest about it because I think it's going to help so many other people, whether it's directly or someone that you talk to, something you said trickled to someone else and that whole butterfly effect. Yeah. I'm wondering if you could this version of you that's kind of living in this new version, this new space, this confidence, this

54:04

loving yourself a little bit more, maybe not fully, but a little bit more than you did when you were younger. If you could go back to like 13, 14 year old Emily, is there anything you'd want to say to her?

54:17

This is so cliche what I'm about to say. Do it.

54:23

But I think that it gets better. it's not this, everything feels so important when you're that age and none of it matters. I mean, it matters to you in the moment, but I promise things are gonna get better. You're going to find people that really love you and cherish you. You're going to probably adopt many, many, many dogs in your life, but you'll at least have one sole dog and...

54:52

Hopefully you impact, no, I know you'll impact many, many people with how you show up in different spaces. Earlier in the story, you said like when you were like 18, 19, you didn't have plans after 24. And some moments were really dark and maybe you didn't want to have plans. Maybe I'm putting words in your mouth. No, that's correct, yeah. And in those moments, I think...

55:18

it's so real to us that nothing could possibly get better. And then 10 years later happens or whatever and we look back and we're like, damn, there's some resilience and like just in general of a human spirit. Like one day, next day, next day, next day. And eventually you move through and it does get better. you know, it's as cliche as that may be.

55:47

It's so true. The human spirit is like, after hearing these, some of these stories are so like, could have gone, you could have gone way off the rails in a different direction, right? Right? then, life shifts happen all the time, not just one major life shift, but these little things happen all the time. And then we go in our new direction and it will get better. So thank you for being willing to take this journey and

56:13

wherever we went on this journey in your conversation. just think it's so valuable because number one is you just showed us how human you are and how fallible but also how celebratable, whatever that word is. I like that a celebratory, right? How you can be both, how you can hold so many different pieces in one space to be that full human. So thank you for coming on this journey.

56:38

Yeah, I really appreciate it. I really appreciate what you're doing. And I just want to say for people, keep speaking your truth because so many people, I'll make one mention on a social platform about not drinking or something that I'm struggling with. And four years later, someone will reach out to me and say, I know you were doing that thing. Can you have any advice for me? that is like, I mean, if that happens once over a lifetime, incredible. So you just don't know who you're impacting wherever you're speaking up and speaking your truth.

57:08

I just want to end with that as well. I didn't realize it. I don't think I realized it until this podcast how important stories are. Not only for the person listening, but also the person telling it. Because I think by telling our stories, we're, kind of healing ourselves or maybe sorting things out in a different way. It's a lot scarier. I think maybe you can relate that things are a lot scarier in your head than maybe when you say them out loud or when you put them to paper. So yes, keep

57:35

I agree, keep sharing your story, keep telling your truth. It's so important. If people want to connect with you, want to find, tell you their story, or maybe find out your services or the other things in your life, is there, is there good way to kind of get in touch with Emily? Yeah, my primary platform is LinkedIn because I got sick of Instagram and left. So yeah, Emily Holland on there. Yeah, self care. I go in every now and then just to like see what the funny reels are, but that's about it.

58:05

But yeah, LinkedIn is my best place. But if you want to email me directly, I'm happy to hear from you. It's Emily at Emily Holland dot co. Awesome. We will put that information there. We'll put your podcast company information there too. Who knows? There might be people that that need your services. You have a new service coming out that I might take advantage of because it might be some fun for me going into year four. So thank you for being a part of year four and just coming on this journey with me. Yeah, thanks, Matt.

58:34

And if you're listening, thank you for listening. I don't know how to wrap these things up. You think after four years, I would know how to end a podcast. But if someone out there in your life needs to hear Emily's story, we would love it if you share this episode with them. Because again, the ripple effect is so strong. And maybe it's not even the main part of Emily's story, but it's some sentence that she said randomly in our conversation that's going to strike at the right time, just like that drink that you took, Emily, right on that particular day struck in that way.

59:03

we never know how we're gonna affect other people's lives. So we would love it if you share this with other people. And for that, I'm gonna stop talking now and I'm gonna hang up and I'm going to say I'll be back next week with a brand new episode of the LifeShift Podcast. Thanks again, Emily.

59:26

For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com