Overcoming Perfectionism and People-Pleasing | Maggie Maris

00:00
Well, then I just collapsed and then it started this circus, as I always call it, of seven years, depression and burnout. Yeah, so we started to to to diagnose, they started to because I just wanted to know what was wrong with me. So I went to the to the doctor and I said, OK, let's go here, you know, because I just wanted to understand what was wrong with me. So they started to test me and I got a diagnose and then I went into therapy and they got.

00:29
me pills. And the thing was, yeah, it was horrible. And the thing was, it made me only feel worse every time. Today's guest is Maggie Maris. Maggie's an author, she's a coach, and most importantly, she's a survivor. Maggie opens up about her childhood struggles in school due to undiagnosed dyslexia and ADHD, which then led to feelings of inadequacy and

00:54
Really the development of harmful patterns of perfectionism and people pleasing. She talks about how these feelings went unnoticed for a long time and they were really masked by a constant quest for that external validation. This is something that I talk about in so many episodes and so it was so interesting to hear how Maggie navigated this in her own life. But her story doesn't just stop at identifying the problem. It's really about the journey that she undertook to overcome it and she went to great lengths

01:24
and finally was able to find a space where these personal struggles, the challenging life events, and really the immense pressures that she faced led her into that severe depression, but then ultimately out of it. So I'm not gonna give everything away, but I'd like to introduce you to my new friend, Maggie Maris. I'm Matt Gilhooly, and this is The Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

02:05
Hello my friends, welcome to the LifeShift podcast. I am here with Maggie. Hello, Maggie. Hi, Matt. So nice for you to have me here. Well, thank you for being here all the way, like not quite halfway across the world, but you're on the other side of the pond. Right. Far away in the Holland, in the Netherlands. I have not been there. It is on my list of places to go and I hope to make it to the Netherlands at some point, but I don't know when.

02:35
You will, if you want to, you will. Thank you for wanting to share your story on the Life Shift podcast. For anyone that's listening for the first time, this show really stems from my own personal experience. Like when I was a kid, my mom died in a motorcycle accident with her boyfriend. And at that moment, my dad sat me down and was like, she's died. My life changed completely.

03:02
Like I had to move states, I had to change schools, I had everything, I had one parent that I didn't normally live with, and all these things changed in my life. And growing up, I didn't have any outlets to share that and talk about that. And always wondered, do other people have like this, this significant pivotal moment in their life that kind of like flip things on its head, and then we had to learn from it and grow from it. And so, so far I've had the opportunity to speak to over 130 people about these.

03:30
seemingly small blips in time that changed everything, like dramatic, super scary, those kinds of things. And so that's kind of where this whole show comes from, my own personal experience of just feeling really lost and alone, and all these stories have really just found a place in my heart to help me kind of heal through that. So thank you for being a part of the journey without even sharing your story. It's just such a lovely thing. That's so great. I love to do it. I love to share this story.

04:01
Well, they are important. We were talking before recording of how I think that even if we don't have the same experiences as someone else, when we hear their story, there's some element of their story that can resonate with us and maybe make us feel less alone or make us feel validated in the emotions that we felt at the time, whatever it might be. So I just think stories are so important. We need to share them more. Right, I really believe so too.

04:30
I can tell you later a little bit why, what happened to me when I didn't talk. So I will tell you about that later. Yeah, for sure. Keeping it bottled up is really impactful in a not so great way. I can relate to that. But before we get into your story, maybe you can just like introduce yourself of who you are in 2024. Like who is Maggie now without giving too much away?

04:56
Okay, yeah, I am Maggie. I'm a mental wellness and positivity expert based in the Netherlands. I do a lot of coaching. And recently, I wrote a book, which is called My Journal. It has been released in Holland a year ago, and it did really well. So now I translated it in English. And I just launched it about a month ago. And now I've been promoting my book since then. And I just love to share about it because it's a beautiful and great book.

05:25
coming from a great story. So. So you're an author now too. You didn't say author, you got to add that in your list. Right, I'm an author, yeah, that's true. And I'm married to Frederick and we have three children, which one of them is still living with us, he's 17. His name is Flynn. I believe the most important thing to say that I am happy. That's big. I don't know that a lot of people can honestly.

05:55
with full heart say that they are happy. Right. So that's why I start with that, because it's an important thing. You will understand why I say that, if I will tell you my story. Yeah, so you're saying that it always, it hasn't always been full-hearted, I'm happy. Right. Yeah. I've been on a long journey, I can tell you, yeah. And sometimes, you know, sometimes those harder moments make us realize how we can be truly happy, because of

06:24
because we know those moments, because we know darker moments. Right, yeah. I've been through a lot, yeah. Well, congratulations on your book, before I forget to say that. Yes, thank you. That's very big. And it's multilingual too now, right? You have two languages. Right, how cool. Not a lot of people can say that, not a lot of authors can say that. Right, yeah. I'm very proud. Sounds like you had a hand in translating it as well. Yeah, I have an amazing translating friend, and she did an amazing job, which is...

06:53
very happy. Yeah. Well, since we like to center these conversations around pivotal moments in our lives, maybe you can kind of paint the picture of what your life was like leading up to the moment or moments that we're going to center today's conversation around. I think it started when I grew up in school. I wasn't doing very well and I didn't understand.

07:17
I was always looking out of the window, couldn't focus. People would tease me. The teacher would throw things at my head if I didn't pay attention. Yeah, it was for a joke, of course. But I was different in school. I was very sensitive and I was scared and I wasn't doing very well. And even my father, he would always push me to go to school even if I didn't want to. So I developed already at a young age to be very scared.

07:47
Yeah, it was sort of traumatic for me at the time. And during this time, during my childhood, I started to develop people pleasing and perfectionism. I can relate. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, oh, good. Yeah, then you understand. So, and I had no idea, of course I was doing that. You know, I mean, at first I was started to drink, you know, when I was a teen, I was always drunk and I didn't know what to do. And...

08:16
I was very unhappy. I didn't even realize that I was unhappy that you realize when you get older. So yeah, it was hard growing up. And I think until I met my second husband, I had no idea. You know, I was always working very hard. I was putting the pressure on myself so hard that with every job I had, I ended up home.

08:44
for a few, you know, I was just overworked. I was burned out. And that happened time after time after time. And I had no clue. Did you feel like you were like running away from something? Like just keeping yourself so busy that you didn't have to focus in on something? Yeah, well, if you, because I had a, also because I thought I was dumb, I didn't have a very interesting job. I was feeling very insecure. And I always thought that I was dumb and I couldn't do anything.

09:13
People would go to college. I couldn't go to college, so I felt different. So I developed, of course, being, yeah, how you say that, insecure and feeling lousy all the time. In school, was the challenge just like a different, like a learning, you learned differently or you just didn't care or was it focused? Was there something that was driving that? Yeah, well, now I know I was dyslectic and I had ADHD.

09:41
So now I know what that was. And it wasn't probably talked about that much back then. No, nobody knew what it was. And now apparently I'm even, I can still not say it, but I'm sort of smart. So that was behind it. I had no idea, you know, if you tell yourself that you're dumb, if you really just really start to believe it, you really, it becomes your own reality, right? Yeah.

10:08
Well, and if we absorb that what everyone else is like, or what we're either assuming everyone else thinks that we are, and then we, like you said, tell ourselves that story over and over again, it becomes second nature. But also, because people didn't know about dyslexia or ADHD as much, they just thought like, oh, you know, this child has no focus or whatever it may be. But really, these are underlying things that people didn't understand. So they just attach, she's not smart.

10:38
which is probably the farthest thing from the truth. Yeah, yeah. But I, yeah, you feel so lousy, you don't wanna go to school. And I just wanted to impress people, you know? And I didn't know I was doing that. I just needed the approval. So I just started to, when I had jobs, I just started to work very hard. So everybody would just see, you know, how good I was doing. And I didn't know this, but I was of course looking for the compliments.

11:06
And I was working harder. Yeah, acceptance. And you see, I'm doing a good job. So getting older, and I met my second husband, and he was so gorgeous and very intelligent and very sweet. So I wanted to impress him. And then it actually started to get worse and worse. I put so much pressure on myself that even when I was cooking for him, you know, I would just...

11:32
putting a lot of salt in the meal. And I would ask him, you know, do you like it? Do you like it? And then he said, well, you know, honey, you put a little bit too much salt in the dinner. So that was always very funny. And of course I had no idea I did that. And then also in that time, we built a house and I redecorated it. And I just worked so hard on this house. And when it was done, it was really beautiful. And I was...

12:02
always when people came in the house, I was just like waiting for them to give me a compliment. The approval. Right, approval again. I had no idea I was doing that. So I would think about it and I would sometimes if they didn't say anything, I would just think, should I ask, you know, should I ask them for approval? Should I ask what they think? Well, this gives, you know, just a situation, always looking for approval and compliments. And after that,

12:31
we got our son, our son Flynn was born and he was very big and the labor was very difficult. So I was already tired from all these years working too hard, trying to impress everybody, you know, I was really, really tired. And when he was born, it was so hard and he didn't sleep because he was very big and he was hungry all the time. So I was really losing it there. And after that, I think after he was...

13:01
One year, my second husband asked me to marry him. And I said, oh my God, really, do you wanna marry me? I still not believe of course, that this gorgeous, great, intelligent man would fall for me. So he asked me to marry him and I said, you know what? I think we have a little problem. And he said, what do you mean? I said, well, I'm so tired. And I don't know if I can do it being a perfectionist and a people pleaser. I knew the perfectionist.

13:30
the people pleasing I didn't know at that time. And he said, Well, you know, you're gonna be fine, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna get your help. So I did get the help and I did get the wedding and it was perfect being me, you know, all perfect. These people still talk about it. And then afterwards, my yeah, we had the wedding and it was perfect. And my father even came. And he was very sick at the time. So after my father,

13:58
A few months later, my father passed away. And that was, of course, very horrible and terrible. And, you know, as you can imagine, I was in bed for, I think it was three months or something. I was feeling so lousy and I was I was afraid to share this with people. Yeah, because I mean, all that approval that you want it all this day. How could you possibly tell them that you weren't feeling great? Right. So and even I did share it to one friend.

14:28
And she said, she got really mad and she said, you cannot say this, you cannot say this because look at where you live. Look at your house, look at your husband, look at your children, look at the, we have all the money, you have two cars. Don't you ever say that you're not feeling good. And this moment changed my life. Also, this wasn't the pivotal moment.

14:56
And I went to bed, I couldn't talk for three days and I didn't talk to my husband. And this when it initiated my depression. And I think about a week later, I just collapsed and I screamed and I ran to the bathroom, upstairs to the bathroom and I had a nervous breakdown. So yeah, because I stopped sharing. You're holding it in.

15:23
Yeah, and I was so ashamed because I didn't know and I didn't understand what was wrong with me. Why was I feeling so bad? You know, why was I feeling so down? And of course, my father died. But other than that, I didn't understand. Right, because you had absorbed all of that your entire life packing that in. Right. It's interesting too, because I think of your story and and how, you know, your whole life, it sounds like you were looking for this validation, this

15:53
you did a great job, this pat on the back kind of thing, which is totally understandable. I totally did that after my mom died. I thought everyone had to be proud of me for them to not leave me like my mom did by dying. Because I was young, I didn't really understand what that was like. But what was interesting is the one time you tell, or maybe one of the few times you tell someone how you're feeling, and she starts to point out all the things that you wanted validation for, like.

16:20
good car, nice, you know, like you have all the things, you have a happy family, you have a nice house. And you probably felt like crap after that conversation too because it's like all those things and they're not making me feel the way that I wanted to feel. So it's like this messed up part in our heads that you're like, wait, these things are not working together anymore. Can imagine how that would make, or I can imagine how that would lead someone into depressed feelings or depression or.

16:49
whatever you kind of let into it makes total sense to me because it's like my whole life I've been chasing this and then once someone validates it, it feels negative. So now what? Yeah, now what? Yeah. Well, then I just collapsed and then it started this circus as I always call it of seven years, depression and burnout. Yeah, so we started to diagnose, they started to, because I just wanted to know what was wrong with me. So...

17:19
I went to the doctor and I said, okay, let's go here, because I just wanted to understand what was wrong with me. So they started to test me and I got a diagnose and then I went into therapy and they got me pills. And the thing was, yeah, it was horrible. And the thing was, it made me only feel worse every time. So, and I was this good girl because I always wanted to do my best. And I love...

17:48
You know, I said to my husband I said, okay, you know, we're gonna figure out what's wrong with me And then we go to the best doctor there is that's why I wanted to diagnosis You know And then if we go to this doctor then he will just tell me what to do on a note and I will just do that You know work hard and I'll be good and and I'll be good right and I'm off again But that didn't work that way So I thought yeah diagnose and after diagnosed and therapy after therapy and it got only worse

18:16
Even I had my attempt on taking my own life. Yeah, it didn't work. I always say I'm very happy. Of course, it didn't work. Well, sometimes you get to this place where you're just like, OK, because like you just said, you're like, these are experts. They should be able to give me something, because we've been conditioned in the way that there should be an easy fix to everything, right? Like there's a right and a wrong, and we can get the answers, and we can move through it. And then when you get the answers, and it doesn't help, and it makes it worse.

18:46
I can imagine how much despair that puts you into, or any human that has these feelings. So I'm sorry that you had to go there. I'm glad that you failed at it. Yeah, I'm too, of course. And not a perfectionist at all parts. So that's really challenging. Yeah, but that's also a good joke. I always make a joke that it didn't work because I'm still here, of course. Yeah.

19:15
But in that time also I was doing therapy after therapy and I told my husband, I think it was after four years, I had a new diagnosis and I said, okay, and they wanted to put me in again in another therapy. And I was telling him, I said, well, maybe we can talk about euthanasia if this therapy will not work because I cannot do it anymore. Because the pain in your heart when you're depressed, I don't know if anybody's listening.

19:45
but they will understand it's so horrible, it's just undoable. So, and yeah, he said, you know, okay, you know, let's do that. They said it would take two years, this last bit, but I didn't get to the two years. I ended up in the bathroom floor again in hysterical attack. So they didn't know what to do. We didn't know what to do. Nobody knew what to do.

20:11
So then somebody had a great idea and she said, why don't you try to get off the medication? And I said, well, I haven't tried that yet. So then they sent me off to India and I thought, okay, let's go to India. They were supposed to help me to get off the medication. And arriving in India, I was with this doctor and I took like a good girl, I took all my medication and I put it on his desk.

20:38
And I said, yes, well, it would be great if we can, you know, do something with this and I can get rid of the medication because maybe it will help me. And then he said, okay, well, we don't need this anymore. And he just shoved all the medication on the side. This is an Ayurvedic treatment therapy. So I'm going to give you all Ayurvedic medicine now from now on.

21:04
be good. So I went to my room and I was like, where did I end up? And I didn't feel safe from day one. Oh really? Yeah, I thought, shoot, you know, what should I do? So I just had to make my own plan. I said, okay, I'm here, gonna be here for a month. I'm just gonna cut back on the medication, half a pill every week less, you know, don't do this at home. Never do this at home because it's dangerous.

21:31
It was also for me, but I'm still here. So thank God. But yeah, so I did that for a month and I felt horrible, of course, because you cannot walk, you cannot talk, the food was awful. Well, I can talk for hours about India. But anyway, I did that. I did get off the medication. Eventually, I moved to another clinic there in Sri Lanka because I didn't feel safe in this one.

22:01
Okay, so I went to Sri Lanka, I went to this other island and I went there also to a therapeutic Ayurvedic center, better than the other one. And also there I had massages, the one before were so horrible and smelly, all Ayurvedic oils. And this one, it was a little bit better, but they said, we're gonna wrap you up with all kinds of fruits and vegetables.

22:29
So they did that, they put that all on my face and they wrapped me up with plastic everywhere. You know, I could breathe and they said, okay, now you have to stay in this for a half hour. So I was okay, okay, you know, and I was laying there, I remember so well. And then all of a sudden, I think it was after five minutes, I just got so angry and I started to rip everything off and I got so angry and I started to cry and I ran to my room like a crazy person.

22:58
And I called my husband and I said, I said, I can't do it anymore. I'm gonna say no, I'm not gonna do it anymore. And then this moment was just for the, I think for the first time, I really said no. Because until that time I did everything they asked me to. Always I said, okay, I'll try. I mean, I always was the good girl until that moment.

23:26
And then after, I think it was after three weeks, I stayed there. I went to the breakfast in my white bathrobe. And after the breakfast, I felt so good and I walked to the sea and I was just looking at the sea and I was looking at all the beautiful plants around me. And...

23:50
I started to get tears in my eyes and I was looking at my arms and I got all goosebumps, you know, and I was like, wow, what's going on? You know, it's so beautiful. And I was just looking there and I was just wow. And this moment I got so tears in my eyes and I was just, I didn't know what was happening. I didn't understand. Totally different than anything you've ever experienced. Ever experienced. It was like waking up. It was just like, wow.

24:20
And this moment was just my awakening. I just woke up and I know now that it was because the medication was leaving my body and I started to feel again. Yeah, it's interesting too, because I have such a visceral imagination of this moment where you're really constricted by this plastic wrap and this, and like, it's holding you to a point in which you're kind of like,

24:48
busting out of a cocoon, if you will, and kind of finding your voice and finding your space, if you will. I can take up this space. Not I am taking up this space for all of you people, but I can take up the space that I deserve and kind of leaning into that. And that's just my mind imagining things. But it sounds like that was the last thing. It was like, you're holding me down, you're holding me down, the medication's holding me down.

25:16
And now here's this physical manifestation of them wrapping you up to the point where you are totally constricted and you can't You can't move, right? Right. And now you're like, done. This is the last straw. It was necessary for me to say no. And from this moment on, you know, after this moment on the beach, I was just, wow, I have a voice. You know, like you say, I can say no.

25:44
And now, you know, after many years, I understand a lot about everything that happened. And I look back and I went home and I started to research and read everything there is to know about the brain, about the health, about mental health, about physical health. I just wanted to understand because still I didn't know what was wrong with me.

26:08
had all these therapies and I had all these things and I still did not understand what was wrong with me. That came later. So yeah, and after researching and coming home, we bought another house. I started to decorate that house again. And when it was done, I was like, wow, I did that. But it was different. Because you did it for you? Yes, because it was different because I didn't need the compliments anymore.

26:36
I was so proud of myself. And I think this was the start of me believing in myself, finding my way up after all this misery and all these years, people pleasing perfectionism. I just believed in myself. And yeah, because I got so excited, I also stopped smoking and I started to feel fit, you know, and healthy and I started to eat well.

27:05
quite a difference than the before times. Right, you know, so I was just going up and up and up. And then I just could not believe how much power I had in me. And even I went on this detox trip, you know, for a week. And after this detox trip, I even felt more fit than ever, you know. I was just, how much power do I have in me? You know?

27:32
Do you also look back at all the time that you spent without the power? Yeah, right. And you're like, now we're going to make up for it. Right. But everything started to make sense then. And I just wanted to write it down. And my daughter said, why don't you, I was always telling my daughter, you know, maybe you can see it like this, or maybe you can do this. And then she's always said, mom, you know, I'm not ready for all this stuff. So maybe you can write it down. And that's actually when it started that.

28:00
I really got the idea from her that I've always wanted to write a book. And in that time, it was COVID. And many people were in distress and not happy. And I was feeling so happy. So I was just thinking, you know, I have to do something with all the people that are not in a good place. What can I do that they can do at home? And then I just developed this method because I wanted it to be easy. I wanted it to be fun. I wanted it to be...

28:29
accessible and nice. And so first I had the methods and I thought, okay, let me think here. They have to be open for it, you know, because if you're not open, you cannot change anything. And then I thought the second was, okay, you have to, you have to start to get to know yourself because I was getting to know myself. And then I started to, you know, for everything, for into place. And then the third part was taking care of yourself.

28:59
And then I finally understood what everybody was telling me all these years. You have to love yourself, girl. And I never understood. And then also I did that. So it's kind of funny though, cause you probably, like, I think when you were telling your story, like growing up and whatnot, like all those things that you just mentioned, you could probably at those times say, yeah, I was open because I was trying to find the answer.

29:25
Yeah, I thought I knew myself because I was doing all these things to get everyone's approval. It's interesting how you can see the same things in a different way and how, I guess, not enlightenment, but awakening, as you put it, can kind of change the perspective of things. Because sometimes it's just the perspective that we're looking at things that changes things. Even your childhood experiences of now knowing that it was dyslexia or ADHD.

29:56
Or both, changes that whole perspective of how like you probably look at that younger version of yourself. Right, right. Completely. And the cool thing is that everything started to make sense. Was there any anger in that though? Like in the happiness? Was there anger about the past? In the beginning, yes, I was very angry at all my doctors and therapists and everybody. Very.

30:21
But then I went to this amazing person, amazing coach I had. And he, in the beginning, I always thought, you know, I'm different. And with me, it doesn't work that way. Or I probably have something very, yeah, somebody, nobody understands yet or something. You know, I didn't know because he was saying all these things. I didn't believe him. In those six years, I was bad, seven. And after that, I came back to him.

30:50
And then because my perspective changed, and I saw everything different. And then you started to explain everything about, who are you blaming? And about the approval and about needing and how you look at the world and how you look at yourself. And then everything started to fall into place. It's fascinating. I had a similar experience. Like it took, my mom died when I was eight. And so it was...

31:18
late 80s, early 90s, people weren't really talking about grief as much as we do now. We weren't really talking mental health, especially kids. I think a lot of people just assume that kids just bounce back, they'll be fine, everything will be okay. And so the people around me didn't really have the tools to help me. And I absorbed kind of like what you're talking about, this perfectionism, like I have to be great because otherwise I'll be alone.

31:43
And it took me like 20 something years to kind of go through that grieving process of losing my mom. But I had a very similar like moment. I went, I was with the therapist and she was having me explain things and I was always just placing blame here and putting, you know, all this stuff. And she's like, you realize that since your mom died, you've been making all of your decisions as that eight year old kid who was afraid. And it was like, you know, like every, like you're explaining, like you look at your arm.

32:13
the goosebumps and like, oh, but after that, and the reason I asked that question is after that moment, I was like, kind of like almost mad at myself for not realizing that earlier. And all the years that I had where I could have been living a different life, had I put that simple thought together and kind of move through it, but again, you know, hindsight's 2020, but at the same time, I had this like weird anger.

32:40
even though I felt freer and I felt like things I could move forward, I was still mad. Yeah, I understand. Yeah, it's a pity they don't teach it in schools, right? I really think they might now. I don't know. No, they're not. No, not yet. No, I wouldn't. It's hard. And I think that as humans, I should say as Americans, I think we skirt around a lot of things that seem to be scary and death is one of those things. And it's weird because like we're

33:10
we're all going to die at some point. And so if we could embrace it a little bit more, not like actively seek it out, but just talk about it and experience it with the people around us and lean into those moments, like having lost my mom in that way, when my grandmother was diagnosed with cancer and eventually passed away, I did everything right. Like I felt like I had the conversations. I sat by her bedside for her last 96 hours and did not leave and.

33:38
Those were the things that I needed to do. And I almost like wish other people could have that experience because it's as sad as it is, it's beautiful. Like it's just this beautiful experience. And so I think more people need to lean into just talking about the hard things. Like your friend that told you to keep it down. Yeah, right. Yeah. But many people are just very uncomfortable, you know. They're very comfortable and they don't want to get uncomfortable.

34:06
But isn't that like when you got your most uncomfortable, like physically, that's when your moment like really, like you were, I just keep going back to that visual because I really feel it like, almost like the suffocation, if you will, that you broke out of. Yeah, I needed to happen. The most uncomfortable made you this version of you. Right, yeah. My journey, yeah, it seemed unbelievable. And I'm so happy, of course it happened, you know. And I-

34:34
to always say, you know, everything happens for a reason. And I just had to go there. And I'm, you know, how did the relationship like, because it's interesting that, like, your husband was by your side and supportive of you through all of this, your children obviously saw you through periods of, of this, and they see the before the during and the after like is how does how are those relationships have they changed dramatically?

35:04
It's unbelievable, of course, my husband stayed with me first all this time. I mean, kudos to him. Like, that's that's hard. And like for men, like for being stereotypical, like that's very hard for men to lean into and help. So, yeah, right. You got a good one. Yeah, I got a very good one. And even even in the end, just when I left for India, I think I set him free. I told him to go.

35:33
I said, I don't want it anymore, you know, because I cannot do it anymore. That you are also in this with me. So I set him free. But we got back together after two months or something. When I came back all happy, of course, and I was like, oh, my God, I almost let him go. I did let him go because I wanted to set him free. I wanted him to be happy. But yeah, we came back together. So, yeah, it's amazing. And we are still so much in love.

36:01
Yeah, he's a very special guy and he's my big inspiration. I learned so much from him. And, you know, when I was, of course, I was then thinking I was dumb, but I was so impressed with his knowledge and I wanted to learn always. And only, I think, five years ago, I said it out loud that I thought my full life I was dumb. He didn't know this.

36:30
So all the cool and interesting conversations we have been had over the weekends, you know, forever in our relationships, were holding me up because they were so cool and I was learning and growing. But that said, where did I want to go with this? Yeah, so my husband, unbelievable, great. And the children, my daughter was at the time, she was...

36:58
I think she was nine and she was just diagnosed with ADHD just before I had my nervous breakdown. And we had her tested and she was tested for ADHD. So she got her medication for it. And I started to see in school already also with her that she was going down a bit. She was feeling down and not smart. Same. I just saw it happen like I had, you know.

37:25
You saw yourself. Yes. And so she got the medication and she came home. I remember the first day when she was like, Oh my God, mom, I didn't look out of the window one time. I was like, and I was started to cry. I was like, Oh my God, you know, she's not falling in the same misery as where I was. Well, also to like the sadness of like, I wish, you know, like I wish the younger version of Maggie had that.

37:53
solution. That's all you were looking for is just like the answer. Like that you weren't dumb. It had nothing to do with your intelligence. No, isn't it weird that you and your whole life you had this this fixation on it, if you will, because right now I always thought less and yeah, I want to, yeah, man, I want to prove so much. So that was my daughter and she was staying at a friend's house a lot when I was, yeah, hospitalized. I was in clinics and

38:22
was staying in a friend so she was good and I think because of her medication and she was in the lift with her school I think that helped her through all this difficult time and then my son he was only I think he was only two so when I got back he was I think he was already well I don't remember exactly how old he was but

38:49
I was most worried for him because I thought, oh my God, you know, what happened with him because I left him, right? And I wanted to do everything I could, of course, to make him with the best experts. When I came back, the first thing I did, I was just looking for therapy for him. And I did that. And I went to therapy for him for two years. And he just, I can say now, he just turned out.

39:20
into this amazing, beautiful person. So smart and so kind and both of them are so unbelievably smart, fun. I think also maybe because they were in so much pain when they were young and they realized that it's not normal to have a normal life because they have been, how you say that?

39:47
been through so much that they're very grateful that I am now in a good place. But I think there's also probably a level of, I mean, I guess we'd have to ask them of like some kind of inspiration, because you pulled yourself out of a space that was very scary, probably for them, like even scarier than we can imagine as adults, because, you know, you don't realize as much as a kid, you everything, there's a lot less dots to connect, right?

40:15
and to see someone go from the state that you described yourself as to where you are now, I'm sure there's a huge level of inspiration that you naturally just kind of give to them without trying, because you're seemingly trying to live your best life now. It's not that you don't have sad days. It's not that you don't get angry. It's not that you don't have all the emotions that humans have, but now it sounds like you're living with like intention, not to impress others.

40:44
but to make yourself happy. Is that true? Yes, that's it. Yeah, that's my whole book. I wrote the book to become happy. You're like, stop trying to impress everyone else because the only person that matters in the room is you at the end of the day, right? Yeah, it's hard to get there though, especially after years of what you endured in your life. It's hard to sit and go, oh wow, this is like a...

41:10
a whole new life that you're living. You're like two different versions of yourself. Right, absolutely. And now I know I've read so much about the brain and I will know all about the thoughts that are holding us back, you know, the limited beliefs and I'm coaching people with the book and they get so excited because it is so, yeah, almost easy. If I work with people, they just get it because it's in the book.

41:39
Because I can tell you what I know now. The key is inside in everybody. And we're all different, right? And I think a lot of people don't realize this, that if you start to listen to your heart and do the things that are good for you, that you can change your life. But they don't understand it, they don't know.

42:09
that this is true. I think a lot of that is society. I think that at least my generation was fed a lot of things of like, this is what success looks like. This is what happiness looks like. This is what, so we were always chasing that. And so I think, I don't know, maybe the people, maybe you would notice this in the people that you work with. Do most of the people that you work with, have they hit?

42:36
some kind of wall or some kind of negative space like you did in order to open up and find that key or not? Maybe I'm just doomsday over here. No, I have many different people who come in here with anxiety or with depression or who would drink a lot or would drugs or different kinds of people. Because when I was...

43:03
hospitalized in this clinic, I remember so well, I didn't realize that I was in the group with alcoholics, drug addicts, eating disorder people, with all these people and I love perfectionism. Yeah. It's an addiction. Burnout, you know, like I had burnout, but I always loved for experts, you know, as I told you, and I was like, what am I doing in a group with an alcoholic? Why am I not getting?

43:32
somebody who's focused on me, you know, on the burnout, and they didn't even know I had a completely different diagnosis at that time. But I think we all many people don't realize that they're all grabbing for something because they don't want to feel right. You're just running, running and one grabs alcohol and the other starts to eat. So that's all also with with my people here.

44:01
everybody comes in here and it's all the same, you know, I bring them to their own heart and because I got so excited with finding out about myself what made me happy and it's not just it's not difficult and if you do the right things. I just think and maybe this is a negative part of my brain but I just feel like so many of us would find difficulty finding

44:30
that key if we didn't have all the hardships that we had beforehand or all the struggles that we had. Everything happens for a reason, yes, you're absolutely right, we need to go there, but I think it would, yeah, but it's good, I really believe that, but I think it's like you said, I wish I knew this thing before I had the same, so I thought, you know, let's write down the basics because

44:58
I didn't just write the book, it's a journal. I can show you quickly, it's a journal. And they are writing their own story. Okay. So it's not about me, I'm not even in it. So it's all questions. So yeah, so it's like this journal and they're getting all these questions. So what's happening? They will write their own story.

45:24
their own manual. But they have to be open, like you said, they have to be open. Right. So the first one is have to be open. Yeah. Because if you're not, you're just going to make one up. You're going to make up, you're going to write things that you think other people would be impressed by if they saw it. Yeah. Right. Isn't that isn't that the comparing one? Yeah. But they have to be open because if nothing changes, nothing changes and they have to want to change, you know, are they willing to change? Do you think if you had your key, if you had the key as a child,

45:54
and you knew that it was dyslexia, and you knew it was ADHD, and you had the key, and the medicine was given to you, and things had changed. Do you think you would be this version of you? Do you think you would be who you are right now? I know you say everything happens for a reason, but I'm wondering, do you think that your path would have gone somewhere totally different? For sure. In a weird way, is there a gratefulness for the challenges that you experienced to bring you to where you are now?

46:26
Maybe gratefulness is the wrong word, but... No, I'm grateful every day. It's just so important because, yeah. Maybe it's because I've been so deep, in so much pain and it's really like this. And because you have experienced that, I am now, of course, in this superpower feeling because I've been in the worst.

46:55
So, yeah. Yeah, I have this conversation with a lot of people. It's really challenging for me, because I would never want my mother to die in the way that she did. I didn't want her to die. But since that happened, I am grateful for the experiences that have come because of that really hard, tragic moment that I can't change, but I would change. Of course, yeah. But I also know that had she not died, we would not be having this conversation.

47:25
I would not be who I am, I would not be where I am. So it's a weird thing, but I also think that I'm happy that I am the way I am, but I know it's because of something that happened way back then. And it sounds like you probably feel similar. Yeah, it's the same. Otherwise, I would have never written a book and I would have never been so proud of myself and I feel so good. And even the children are involved in this whole thing now and they always, you know, so...

47:54
I'm sure they're very proud of you. Yeah, they're very proud. I remember when I stopped smoking. They were like, finally! Yeah, because they hated me smoking. That was the one thing that didn't work when I was away, stopped smoking. So I came back and I still smoke. And that was one thing I really wanted to do, I think it was one year later. And I stopped smoking.

48:19
They were so proud to bake me this cake, you know, and they were like, mom, you did it, you know, it's so cool. Oh my God, how that changed your life. My life stopped smoking. Yep. Yeah, you saved a lot of money. So I like to kind of wrap up these conversations with a question that's not, it can't really happen, but if you, this version of Maggie right now could go back to...

48:45
the version of you that was laying in bed for three months after your father passed away and you were holding everything inside. You decided to share it with someone who told you to keep it down. You have everything. Everything's perfect on the outside. Is there anything you wanna say to that version of Maggie laying in bed based on what you know now? Yeah, I wanna, yeah, comfort her for you. For you, you believed your thoughts.

49:12
And you know, because I was going in my mind about, oh my God, you see, I'm not good at anything. Oh my God, you see, I'm a bad mother. Oh my God, you see, I cannot do anything. Oh my God, I'm a terrible person. I don't know what I said. It was so horrible. You see, I'm so spoiled. It was, yeah. And I just wished for her. I need a hug. Yeah, I need a hug. You poor girl.

49:42
Yeah, so. You probably wouldn't have listened at the time either because you were so involved in that space. It's really dark. It's a dark space to get into and it's hard to get out, but you got out. And I think that's, you know, like you said, we all have the key within us. It's a matter of finding it and having the confidence to find it and then to be open to whatever it can unlock if we're gonna go with this key metaphor, you know.

50:11
If people want to check out your book or they want to get in your circle, they want to get in your orbit and connect with you, what's the best way that people can find you and find what you're doing? I, um, my website, of course, Maggie's way.nl, uh, and I have an Instagram account. They can follow me at Maggie's dot way. And I think the easiest way for them is to order my book through Amazon. Uh, they can just type in Maggie Maris and, uh, my journal.

50:41
by finding yourself, you will find your happiness. So that's easy for them to order the book. Awesome, we will put the links to all those things. So if you're listening and you wanna connect with Maggie, you wanna check out her book, we'll put the Amazon link and we'll get your Instagram link and then we'll get your website link on there for them. So you can just go ahead and click on that and connect into Maggie's world and see what she's doing and see how she's kind of.

51:07
finding the way to live her best life every day. It sounds like that's the goal, right? Right, that's everybody's goal, right? Thank you for sharing your story in this way and kind of inspiring people through real life situations, which, you know, it's not all sunshines and rainbow, right? Like we have, there's a lot of moments in our lives that we should be willing to share. And I'm so glad that you're out here sharing your story in the way that you are. So thank you. Yeah.

51:34
And I really hope that it comforts people, you know, but because I've been so depressed and I get out, I got out and I wrote a very good tool for people to get out if they're open to do it and they write their own manual and their own story. And I really wish that for everybody because that's my Iki guy at the moment, you know, my passion, my mission to share my story with everybody. Yeah, to give them the power to continue and to not give up because that's very important.

52:04
That's the key. Keep going. Yeah, keep going. You're going to find it. Find your answers, yes. Yes. Well, thank you. And thank you all for listening. And if there's something that Maggie said today that you think someone in your circle needs to hear, we'd love it if you would share this episode with them. And or maybe if you find something really compelling about what Maggie said and you want to reach out to her, I'm sure she would love to hear from you. So please do that. The links will be in the show notes.

52:32
And with that, I'm going to say goodbye, and I will be back next week with a brand new episode of the Life Shift podcast. Thanks again, Maggie. Thank you so much, Matt, for having me.