Navigating Mental Health: An Untethered Life | Nikhil Torsekar

00:00
I think at some point I kind of had to wave the white flag, you know, this was in 2016 because I had gone through this dance more times than I cared to count. And as you can imagine, I was not a lot of fun to be around. I was a very different person back then, very irritable, very unpredictable, kind of I could be the life of the party. But it's one of those things where it's like if you crossed me or if you, you know, if you got on the wrong side of me, watch out.

00:28
And so I was very fortunate that my wife knew the real me. She knew that there was a Nikhil behind these symptoms. And so rather than just sort of fall back on that pattern or that script, I guess we could say, of just seeking treatment for depression, let's look deeper. Let's look at this data and let's say, hey, maybe there's something more to it. And so that was when I got my diagnosis of bipolar disorder. And this was in 2016.

00:55
Today's guest is Nikhil Torsakar. He is a friend of mine in the podcasting space. He's a father, he's the host of Untether Your Life podcast, and he's part of a stem cell therapy company's digital marketing team. In today's episode, we're gonna look at Nikhil's personal journey and his experience with bipolar disorder. His story really highlights the necessity of finding a correct diagnosis. I've heard this from other guests, but...

01:21
This conversation was really pivotal in how it changed Nikhil's life. And once he came to accept that, the things that came after. In 2016, he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and it led him to a kind of a greater understanding of himself. His story emphasizes the importance of mental health awareness and the need for the correct diagnosis and appropriate treatment. Like I said, this diagnosis changes life and it really paved the way for his current work.

01:50
The Untether Your Life podcast is really about freeing oneself from societal expectations, mental health struggles, and traditional health care models. It reflects his belief in the power of conversation as a tool for change. We'll also talk about his interest in holistic health, which is demonstrated by his work for this stem cell therapy company and the conversations that he has on his podcast. And as we talk today, remember, while our journeys are unique, they're all linked by this shared human experience.

02:20
His story is a reminder of the strength that comes from accepting our own realities. As we navigate our own life shifts, let's find some inspiration in Nikhil's story and we should aim for some self-awareness, acceptance, and the courage to untether our lives. Before we jump into today's episode, I wanted to thank Bryan and Dream Vacations for sponsoring one episode a month on Patreon. Brian has been my realtor for many different house-

02:48
sales and purchases and I really appreciate him. If you are in the Orlando area, please reach out to me and I will connect you with Bryan. And then Dream Vacations is run by my friends Trapper and Shane and they specialize in cruises but they will help with any kind of vacation. So if you need anything from them, reach out to me and I will give you that information as well. If you're interested in directly supporting the show like Bryan and Dream Vacations,

03:15
please head to patreon.com slash the Life Shift podcast and you can see information about all the different tiers and you can get your name in the t-shirt giveaway. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Nikhil. I'm Matt Gilhooly and this is The Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

03:49
Hello, my friends. Welcome to the LifeShift Podcast. I am here with a friend, Nikhil. Hey, Nikhil. Hey, Matt. We meant to record this conversation about eight months ago, possibly seven months ago or so. And things came up and in the world of a podcaster, we understand that and we just kind of keep going with it. And I'm glad that you wanted to come on. We're well over 100 episodes now on the LifeShift Podcast. And it's just been.

04:18
such a journey, which you are a podcaster as well. So you understand the feeling when you have these guests that want to come on the show and like talk about their lives in ways that maybe they haven't before. I've had people come on and like totally change it on me in a sense of like, they came on, they want to talk about this one thing and they're like, wait, I want to share something I've never shared before. And it's just such an honor. And I know that you've had experiences like that on your show as well.

04:47
Yeah, so thanks for having me, Matt. This is a real pleasure, real privilege. Love your show and really excited to talk to you. Well, thank you. Maybe you can tell us I want to be selfish for you here. Maybe you can just tell us what your podcast is and what you do on there, because I listen I listen most times. I'm behind a couple. Actually, I'm ahead a couple, but behind a couple older ones. And maybe you can tell us a little bit about that podcast just so we can get an understanding of that.

05:14
Yeah, so sure. I'm still in the double digits in my podcasting journey. Closing in on, I think we just rounded number 70. So pretty excited about that. So yeah, my podcast is called Untether Your Life. And the name of the title is suggestive of this notion of freeing ourselves, right? Because with tethering, there is this sense of security, there's this sense of safety, right? When you think of a boat at the shore, it's just this very, a lot of stability.

05:44
But it's very confining. It's very limiting, right? And so that was a journey that I went through, myself and my wife, in terms of untethering our lives from a couple of different facets. Number one is the cultural aspect, because my story is one from the South Asian diaspora. My folks were born in India. They came here in search of a better life. And for the most part, we've had a very good story, a very good journey. But being part of the South Asian diaspora,

06:14
Along with that comes a host of complications, such as the model minority myth. And we can get into all that stuff in a little bit, but in a large sense, Matt, it was about freeing ourselves from the shackles of a lot of those, uh, what I would call templates, right? The other thing is just in terms of managing your health, physical and mental, because I think a lot of times, especially in America, we kind of get caught in this transactional approach to managing our health. People want the next, you know, fix me the next.

06:43
just add water model for getting better, right? Whether that's a pill they take, whether that's some diet, right? And we're here to say, hey, you know, you gotta just free yourselves of that kind of thinking, right, and take a more holistic approach. And so we talk about a lot of different modalities such as meditation, breath work, Ayurveda, all these different things, which incidentally sort of come from our culture as members of South Asian diaspora. So.

07:10
In a nutshell, Matt, that's really what Untether Your Life is all about. And so we have a broad variety of guests from different backgrounds, professional, cultural. We try to, I know they always say the riches are in the niches with podcasting, but I've sort of cast a wide net sort of intentionally. Yeah. Well, you know, what's nice and knowing a little bit about you and listening to some of your episodes is that...

07:34
All of that passion and the reason Untether Your Life exists really stems from your own personal experiences and trying to navigate one, kind of the idea of did I do it that way and how can I unravel that so that other people don't do that? Or also you went through this path and then...

07:55
probably people around you also went through that path and you're like, it's okay, we both were in the same place and there's nothing wrong with it, but here's how we move forward. And it kind of feels very similar in kind of why the Life Shift podcast exists because it stems from my own, the eight-year-old to 30-year-old version of me feeling very, very alone in my grief journey and feeling like no one else out there had a dead mom. And it was like, I knew it, but also at the same time I had to.

08:22
unpack that and now 100 plus episodes later, it's like, oh, we're a lot more similar than I thought we were. And I'm really wasn't alone in that process. And so I love that it stems from your own personal experience. And that untethered feeling feels a lot like I talked to a lot of people about like the checklist life of like so many of us kind of just like subscribe to this model of which you like do this, then you do this, then you do this, then you do this. Although no one told us

08:51
essentially like this was the checklist we should follow, but somehow we all kind of assimilated into this path, or at least the people around me. And I just like, it's nice to see people that are finally like kind of waking up to that. Like checking all those boxes didn't bring us quote unquote happiness. They didn't bring us success. They didn't bring us the things that I guess we thought they would. And so I love that your show does that as well.

09:17
So I'm happy that we've connected through this podcasting space and I get to hear you have these conversations with people. And now I'm happy that you're gonna share part of that story and probably fill in some of the blanks as to why that even exists in the first place. So maybe you can just tell us a little bit about or just like who you are and what you do like on a nine to five kind of thing. And then I'll have you kind of paint the picture of your life leading up to this pivotal moment. Yeah, happy to do that, Matt. So.

09:45
In a nutshell, Matt, I think there's a couple different, I hate this term, but there's a couple of different hats I wear. The one that I think I really identify with that's in my DNA is the host of the Untether Your Life podcast. We'll get into the show in a little bit, but I launched the podcast, it'll be two years actually, not sure when this is going to be published, but it'll be two years in December. It's been an incredible journey just because of the connections that I've formed, present company included.

10:14
Just in terms of, I always think of it like a university on steroids, you know, just in terms of all the information that I've absorbed, not just from reading a book, but also there's content and then there's context, right? And so I think that when you have those discussions with people who are leaders in the field of breath work or Ayurveda, there's so much more information that comes across when you have these people on your podcast. So it's been an immense privilege and pleasure just to

10:43
be a, you know, hold space for these people to talk about their craft and to talk about. And one of the other taglines, I guess, I'm not as fans. I don't have a t-shirt like you with the it's just okay yet. Maybe I'll get on sticker meal after. But one of the taglines is I'm passionate about the power of conversation to catalyze change. And that there's so many layers to that because it's about the audience listening to this information and maybe

11:10
awakening and interest in something that they hadn't explored before. But then it's also myself, you know, I feel that because I'm going so deep into these topics, you know, I feel that my perspectives are evolving my, the lens that I'm looking at the world is evolving. Right. And so it's just such an amazing thing. And you can attest this as well. It's something that I feel like everyone should try it out, you know, just hosting a podcast or being on a podcast.

11:36
Just being part of this journey, it's just so valuable and rewarding. The other thing is, I guess my quote unquote day job would be, my wife has launched a stem cell therapy company and that is Geostar Chicago. And so I am involved with that in terms from a marketing standpoint. So my background is in pretty multifaceted. Again, so many parallels with your background. Also have a, I think I'm a three degree MBA, master's and bachelor's. That's the same as you, right? Yeah. So, yeah.

12:06
And here we are, podcasting. Yeah, there you go. And then sort of I picked out of a hat, the one skill that really resonated me with the, with me, and that would be marketing. So I head up our marketing initiatives, whether it's, you know, search engine optimization, page search, some of the things that dovetail with the podcasting journey in terms of content creation, video production, et cetera, but that really fits in Matt into the overall, what I would call the portfolio of

12:34
what I think of as whole health, because stem cell therapy is really about harnessing our own healing potential, not just looking to medication or surgery, just what I would call cookie cutter approaches. Now granted, there are benefits to traditional therapy, but really I think it's about harnessing and unlocking the body's own healing capabilities that can really reap some powerful rewards. And I can attest to this myself, having had stem cells for things like my gums.

13:04
Doctors had said, you know, this was a, this was an autoimmune condition. There's no hope. I got STEM cells and I'm not kidding. And again, I'm not trying to, you know, be infomercial guy here, but really STEM cells are an incredible technology. And I think people should at least again, look into it a little bit more. And then also, and then finally, like on the personal level, I'm a father. I have three beautiful children, age 20, 16 and nine. So in the summer.

13:31
This was partly related to why we rescheduled, but we moved from Chicago to San Diego, and just loving it out here right now. I think the weather's like in the mid-70s. I think I might have to stop posting on Instagram because I'm gonna lose a lot of friends who are shivering back in Chicago, so love you all. Don't... Yeah, I mean, I think all of the pieces that you mentioned kind of make sense in what I've heard.

13:57
and what you bring to your podcast. So I'm wondering if you can kind of give us a lead up to, or kind of paint the picture of what this older version, not older, but former version of you kind of was doing and what you were like moving into this pivotal moment. Yeah, thank you for that question. Yeah, so again, going back to what I had said earlier, Matt, I was, I don't wanna say the word victim, but I definitely fell prey to a lot of programming. And when I say programming, I just meant kind of

14:27
you know, continuing on what you had talked about, which is what we were told would constitute success in America. You know, so my parents were both doctors. It's sort of, it stood to reason, right? That I would go in that path. So I was pre-med and undergrad at university. I went to Washington university and medicine never really resonated me with me. I mean, it's ironic that I am in healthcare now, but just the approach to healthcare and the approach to just.

14:55
learning. I mean, it was just so just this rote process and it's just kind of like force feeding yourself information. So I was pre-med undergrad, but then I realized that wasn't really my cup of tea. So I shifted into the liberal arts. But the nice thing was, you know, with the timing, I was able to find my way and I really gravitated towards technology. So this was in the early 2000s. I was able to find expression, was able to find

15:25
stimulation with technology in terms of, I don't know if it was called digital marketing back then, but just building websites, internet marketing. And so I had applied it to financial services and it was a little bit of a different variation from the script in terms of the doctor, engineer, failure menu of options. I think that's not mine. That's Jay Shetty. I think he said doctor, lawyer, failure. But I bring that up, Matt, because...

15:51
I had gotten to a point where I thought I had quote unquote made it, you know, because I had an MBA from the University of Chicago, very good school, worked at top consulting firms like PWC, had a house in the suburbs. You know, at the time it was two beautiful children, but I was miserable, you know, because I was always chasing it. I was always looking- That's the checklist. Yeah. I was always looking to my right, to my left, just, okay, this person is-

16:19
they're managing director, I'm just a director, or this person went to a better school. And yeah, at some point, and then mental health kind of played into this, was I was struggling with undiagnosed bipolar disorder at the time. Were you aware of how you were feeling? Yeah. Because you say undiagnosed, so I'm wondering. Right, well what's interesting, Matt, is with bipolar disorder.

16:45
It is something that the challenge is just that a lot of times when people go to seek treatment. So I guess, let me back up, I guess, with bipolar disorder, the 30,000 foot view, if you will, is it's an oscillation between highs and lows, right? So a lot of times people have, they're in a very elated state. There's a lot of high creativity. There's not much of a need for sleep, irritability. But then there comes a crash, you know, and then people are in a very depressed state.

17:13
And so that's what I kind of cycled through for a lot of my career. The problem was I always identified with the elevated Nikhil, you know, Superman Nikhil, so to speak. I don't know if you've seen the movie Limitless. That was kind of, I was like Bradley Cooper. I always, that's the analogy I always use. And then when I would fall into a depressed state, that's when I would go seek treatment. And so the problem is the treatment that I was being administered was for depression as opposed to bipolar disorder, which is...

17:43
Very destructive because that's the analogy I use is sort of taking a pile of logs, dunked in gasoline and throwing a match on it because literally it, what it does is it exacerbates the mania. Oh, okay. That makes sense. So I bring that all up, Matt, because I think at some point I kind of had to wave the white flag, you know, this was in 2016 because I had gone through this dance more times than I cared to count and. You know,

18:10
As you can imagine, I was not a lot of fun to be around. I was a very different person back then, very irritable, very unpredictable. I could be the life of the party, but it's one of those things where it's like, if you crossed me or if you got on the wrong side of me, watch out. I was very fortunate that my wife knew the real me. She knew that there was a Nikhil behind these symptoms.

18:40
fall back on that pattern or that script, I guess we could say, of just seeking treatment for depression, let's look deeper. Let's look at this data and let's say, hey, maybe there's something more to it. And so that was when I got my diagnosis of bipolar disorder, and this was in 2016. Now it's something that I've evolved beyond. I don't want to say I've... I mean, it's definitely a part of me, but I would say I've evolved in terms of where

19:07
Bipolar disorder is sort of, it's there, but it's kind of in the background, if that makes sense. Because with my platform, with my content, what I try to do is focus on creating space for solutions. And it doesn't just have to be for bipolar disorder. It can be, you know, anxiety, depression, whatever the case is, but just helping people to feel better about themselves, so. But I'm wondering if you had never gotten...

19:35
control of that or gotten the right diagnosis or the right help in whatever way that was, would you be in the space that you're in? Because you were like, I was a totally different person. Was that sustainable forever, that version of you? No, you're absolutely right, Matt. I mean, that's the thing is it's just, and this is the problem, right, I think with our culture, not just, I'm not just talking about American culture, but I'm just talking about the world we live in where it's just, everything is so surface level.

20:03
where you have these influencers, you have these people. And I'm finding this, what's really interesting, Matt, is that I'm finding this in all communities. It's not just the Kendall Jenners or the Kim Kardashians of the world. It's also in the community that I'm in with health and wellness. I mean, there are a lot of people who do project this. They've got everything figured out, but then it turns out that they're really, their life is in shambles.

20:29
But to your point, yeah, I definitely think that I had to hit rock bottom. I had to get that right diagnosis. What it comes down to is awareness. It comes down to humility. And it comes down to really, the saying is know thyself, right? And that's what I needed to do in order to create this platform and to create this space for people who want to untether their lives, for sure. Well, to me, it feels very much like.

20:56
And not just in bipolar disorder, it's like anything that people are facing, whether it's mental illness, whether it's a physical ailment, whatever it might be. There's a big piece of acceptance there that I think that, like you point out, like on the surface, we feel like if we have something, we all have something, right? If we have something of some sort, there's like this automatic shame that we feel that we must assume for some reason, like at the at the onset of whatever.

21:25
But once we have that acceptance, it is what it is. This is just me, and I'm going to get help, and therefore I can have a baseline that is quote unquote normal for me that I can operate from and do cool things moving forward. And I think that's big to, I know we don't want to stop on this moment, but I feel like it's really important because there are so many people out there that assume this weird unfortunate shame in.

21:55
whatever they might be facing. And there shouldn't be, because you're living proof that once you were able to move into that space where it was like, you said a little bit of humility, a little bit of vulnerability, a little bit of just like, shit, things are real, and I need to like, take care of it so that I can do more productive things that are productive across the board and not just when I'm in the highs. I think that's big, I think that's really important. And kudos to you for

22:25
finding that space, whether it was through over rock bottom or whatever it may be, it's clear that there, that is a moment in which you're able to take that and then move forward with it. Because it sounds like if you didn't take that moment, whatever it may be, you wouldn't be where you are now. No, not at all. Do you think? I mean. You wouldn't care about the things that you care about in the same way, it seems.

22:53
Yeah. Well, no, and you put it beautifully, Matt. I mean, I think my, where I'm at right now is, and we can touch on this in a little bit, is just, I kind of feel like I'm in chapter two of that story where it's just like, because, you know, it's, there's been, you know, what is it the saying? Time heals all wounds. And it's almost like I can't even fathom sort of being in that state, being in that, you know, where everything that made sense, my whole...

23:21
foundation just kind of crumbled in front of me. It's like a tower of Jenga, right? Just everything was just, everything was pulled out from underneath me and having to basically start from scratch. But if you didn't have chapter one, you wouldn't have chapter two. And you know, and it's like, I, I, of course, now with the Lifeshift podcast, I talk about my mother dying regularly. But if that moment, if that chapter one hadn't happened in my life,

23:49
I wouldn't be having these conversations now. And as much as I'm like, I wouldn't change things, I can't, I'm who I am because of that, it's still formed a huge part of me. And I think there is value in not, I mean, I don't think you're dismissing it. I understand that you don't wanna harp on it. You don't wanna like, this is, that's not you, right? That was just part of your journey. But I think that it is a pivotal part in the sense that like, it got you to chapter two and who knows what chapter you'll get to.

24:18
because of that. You know, the book can't start here in chapter two, in my opinion, because I'm inspired by that, the fact that you are open about it, that you changed your life for the better, and that you care about new things because of it. Yeah, no, definitely, and I think you're right. I mean, I'm definitely not dismissing it, and I definitely do think it was a pivotal part of my journey, and I wouldn't trade it for the world because it's just like, yeah, I mean, let's say...

24:47
Let's say I tried to put the cart before the horse, right? Let's say I started doing things like breath work and started a podcast without doing that inner work. It would have been another house of cards. It would have been sort of this amazing- Like a band-aid. Yeah, a band-aid or just, the analogy I think about is it's just like putting up this beautiful house where the foundation is made of like silly putty. You know what I mean? It's just like, I think people do really need to have that awareness and that, you know, come to Jesus moment.

25:17
where it's just like you start to see that the looking glass mirror or the looking glass is all, you know, is false, right? This illusion that you had, yeah. Well, and let's be real, like what you were doing, that hamster wheel of like, what's the next thing that I can achieve because I think that one's gonna make me happy or that one's gonna make me happy, like we all, so many of us lived or currently live that life. And at some point,

25:46
It gets really exhausting and you have to find a way to like stop running on that hamster wheel and like, just like, okay, what really matters to me? Is it this, is it this, is it this? What can I do to fulfill me in different ways? I mean, it took me 40 plus years to find this space, to be able to talk about things like this, you know? And so it sounds like, you know, you had to go through that mess to really value what that mess was and what it brought to you. So, you know.

26:16
Good on you. I wanted to pause and commend you for that. I think it's big. I think it's really big, and I don't want you to feel any kind of peace about it, but I think it took me a long time to realize that I was a big hot mess. And so once I finally did, I was like, good on me. And so I hope that you feel the same way about what you've done for yourself. I do. Well, carry on with your story. I think it's important. You were kind of...

26:45
chasing, chasing, chasing. Yeah, yeah. And I think that, you know, when we talk about, you know, in my culture, in South Asian culture, there's this concept of Dharma, right? There's this amazing book that Sunil Gupta, he's actually the brother of Sanjay Gupta, the CNN correspondent, called Everyday Dharma. I highly recommend it. He's actually someone I, I wouldn't be surprised if he came on the life shift. You have some amazing guests on and some amazing conversations. But.

27:14
I bring up the point of Dharma, Matt, because for a long time, I really did think sort of being a master of the universe was my Dharma, where it's like, again, with the MBA, with working at a top consulting firm, flying all over the world and having these quote unquote baller experiences. I thought that was my Dharma because a lot of it was in reaction to a lot of what the programming I got from my parents.

27:44
And again, my parents did a lot for me. I don't, I want to give them credit due in terms of, you know, providing for me. But there was a lot of toxic dialogue, right? There was a lot of, and this is not, I mean, I'm not unique in the South Asian culture. This is very common where it's always like, I always say like you're the number of trophies on your shelf is a proxy for your value in their eyes or their worth. Right. And so it was a lot of like, in terms of.

28:13
You know, once when I did make honor roll or when I did get that promotion, there was always this, well, we always believed in you. You know, you were a diamond in the rough and it was always like bullshit, right? It was always like, yeah, now you can sort of look back and sort of play Monday morning quarterback, right. And say that you were always in my corner, but it was all conditional based on sort of how well I was doing and how well I was keeping up with the Joneses. So yeah, a lot of that fueled my anger.

28:42
in rising up the corporate ladder, you know, where it was just like, I'll show you mom and dad. Okay. So it wasn't very much like external validation. It was more like, I'll prove you wrong kind of thing. Yeah. And I think in particular, like I had started a business and it didn't go very well. And I was talking to my mom and a couple other people around. And she said to me, I mean, I'll never forget this. It was like in front of a group of people,

29:11
You know, I knew you, I knew it would fail. You had no head for business. And again, I don't want to dredge up a lot of these painful memories, but it's almost like, I think as I reflect on sort of what was contributing to that chase of the next title of the next promotion, a lot of this was kind of like a big F you to mom and dad. Again, grateful for what they did for me, but this messaging was very toxic. Right.

29:39
And to your point, I don't think it's unique to you. And I don't think it's unique to your culture either. I think the older generations or our parents or our parents' parents, it just kinda trickles down until we break it, right? Generational trauma. I think there are a lot of people that can, yeah, I think a lot of people can relate to you and your approach. Mine was very much external validation, like, see, I'm okay. Whereas yours was like, I'll show you. Yeah, yeah. And so...

30:05
And that was the point when it was like, I lost my fifth job in six years or something like that. It was just this constant instability. And I finally realized, I'm like, who am I doing this for? And so I finally said to myself, well, I'm just going to embrace the power of surrender. And so that's what happened in 2016, where my amazing wife, she launched this stem cell therapy company.

30:33
She needed some help with the marketing. She needed some help with the technology. These were things that I had cut my teeth on back in the early 2000s. And it sort of been the, you know, I pivoted a little bit with the MBA and kind of went into analytics, which is still a part of what I do now, but going back to basics, I guess you could say going back to digital marketing and I really enjoyed it, you know, and so it was amazing to find my Dharma, not so much in that.

31:00
proving myself and thumbing my nose at mom and dad, so to speak, but more just how am I helping my amazing partner who's done so much for me, but also how am I helping mankind? Because stem cell therapy, really, and again, I don't wanna get on an infomercial tack here, but it is really giving hope to a lot of people. Call now. Right, operators are standing by. No, but it's just people who have tried surgery and medication and they've.

31:28
gotten stem cells and gotten some incredible results. So I feel very blessed and very fortunate with that life shift, being able to be a part of my wife's journey and that dovetailing into my own journey of owning your own health, which is one of the other taglines of Untether Your Life. You know, it's interesting there, and I would love if you would add this to your story, is what it sounds like when you explain that.

31:57
is that you finally leaned into something that you enjoy doing and you found value in and there was a purpose there. It was like you were doing it because you liked it and it was helping. And in your story you said you wanna help your wife, you wanna help other people out there, but I think you were also embracing something that was like, oh wow, I kinda like this. I think I'm gonna, you know, and it's okay if it's not vice president of the world or president of the world, but it's like, you know, it's something that I enjoy doing, I'm good at.

32:27
And I think that I saw your face kind of light up in this way of like, it was cool. Like I enjoyed it and that was OK. I didn't have to be the best consultant out there. I didn't have to be these things anymore. Is that how it felt there in that moment when you were doing the digital market? Or did you reluctantly do it? Yeah, I mean, it was just something that it was. It was I guess what's the best analogy I can use here. It was just more it was one of those things where gradually over time, it wasn't something that I was averse to.

32:56
because I love tinkering with things. I kind of, Steve Jobs was my idol as a kid. You know, I'm a little bit older than you, but my first computer was an Apple IIe. You know, I remember this huge beige box, when, you know, learning how to program. And it's just going back, it's in my DNA, you know, it's just problem solving, building systems and things like that. And then applying it to, again, something that can really help mankind. So...

33:24
In terms of titles, obviously, even it's a small company and everyone's a VP. You can sort of make your own, but the point is- But does that matter? Well, that's what I was getting to is just that I do have friends who are partners. They made it up to partner at these big consulting firms or senior vice president. They're miserable. Again, this is not like an exact determination. I mean, conversely, there are other people who have gotten those titles through the web. But my point is they're-

33:51
I mean, I just stopped looking for that validation in terms of those Fortune 500 Master of the Universe business cards, because that's at the end of the day, I mean, that's a fool's errand as they say, right? I mean, I don't think you're going to get that validation that way. Yeah. It's almost like you could, you move from a space where like maybe older version of you would be jealous of their titles and now you can just be like happy for them because they have what they wanted or what they think they want.

34:21
and you have what you need and you're fulfilling yourself in this particular way and kind of, what was the word you used that you like kind of gave your, what was the word you used? You kind of, not in a bad way, but you kind of like, it's like, okay, this is my new journey and this is how I'm gonna move into it. And that's all okay. I'm not gonna try to stick it to the man or stick it to the parents or do any of these kinds of things. I'm gonna, is did it feel like living, finally like living for yourself?

34:50
You know, here's the thing. I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, the working to build Geostar was incredibly rewarding. And, you know, just this chance to work in an entrepreneurial environment was really rewarding. And I think it gave me a lot more fulfillment. It gave me a lot more ownership than I would have gotten at one of those bigger companies. But I would say that dovetailed into the next phase, which was launching the podcast and that element of creation. And there's just.

35:17
What I find, Matt, is just there's so much beauty and serendipity, right? Because the podcast and, you know, I'm sure it's very similar to your journey, but it wasn't something where I was like, you know, as a kid, podcasting didn't exist, but ham radio or whatever. But, you know, as a kid, I wasn't like, ah, I want to be, you know, a podcaster when I grow up. But the point is my wife had recorded some episodes. She had done some guest appearances. She's like, I need to put these up somewhere. And so over a weekend, I.

35:46
sign, got an anchor, now Spotify account, threw some episodes up. And I was talking about this before the show, but a friend of mine from college who I hadn't talked to in a while, had started writing a column in Psychology Today about mental health in the South Asian diaspora. Right. And this was something she was just getting off the ground. And I was like, holy shit, you know, why am I just, you know, why are we just having this as a

36:14
repository for some episodes. Why don't we make this a platform and a space to have these types of conversations? So I reached out to her. She was one of my first guests on the show. Her name is Josna Bott. I actually did an IG live with her last week. And it was just amazing how that evolved, how that snowballed. And now we've got 70 episodes. And I just look back on that library. And it makes me smile. It gives me this sense of fulfillment because...

36:43
It's not about numbers, it's not about downloads, but it's about these amazing takeaways that the listeners had, but also, like I said, that I've had in terms of looking, in terms of looking at things differently, right? I can feel the seismic shift that's happening internally. Was, before you started that podcast, were you vocal or did you engage in these kinds of conversations that weren't recorded? Would you talk to people about these certain, not maybe,

37:12
not what you're talking about nowadays, but maybe like early on conversations, like reading your friend's paper and those kinds of things. Did you have regular conversations with people around you, people in your community about those things? Was that something you were interested in? Yeah, no, that's a great question. I mean, I think what's interesting is the journey evolved because initially I was sort of like a secondary, I don't wanna say secondary character, but yeah, let's go with that. I would say a secondary character in...

37:41
what's now called the Shelley story, which a lot of it was about her journey, which is, I mean, amazing. I mean, she's, I really won the lottery when I got her as a spouse, but the ability to save somebody who had been labeled as beyond salvation, right? Which is just someone who refused treatment that, we're talking about me, someone who had refused treatment, somebody who.

38:07
wanted to file for divorce and was just hell bent on her destruction to sort of rest him from the clutches of complete ruin, to bring him back, to bring the marriage back, build it back stronger than ever. And also in the course of doing so, also launch a very profitable, a very successful stem cell business. So she had crafted this narrative.

38:35
And nothing against her, I will never begrudge any of that, but I kind of felt like an object rather than a subject. Do I have the grammar right there? Where it's kind of like I was being talked about in the third person. And because we would be at parties or we would be at conferences or whatever, and she would tell her story and she would be like, where's your husband now? You know, it was almost like, and I was like, I was like, hey, I have a story to tell as well. And so that's...

39:03
when I started having more of these conversations. So I've done more of interviewing people, but I do think that my voice kind of interweaves. And as you know, Matt, as being a podcaster, it interweaves into a lot of those discussions. I mean, I think that is a beautiful revelation in the fact that, you know, you honor the fact that she helped you in so many ways and there's nothing about that, but at some point you realize like,

39:32
you want to also now control the narrative moving forward of your own story. It's not that that story was incorrect. It's not that she was depicting it in any way that was false. But rather you want to be kind of the leading character in your own story now. And so this podcast has kind of given you a little bit of that freedom to do so. Not that you didn't have the freedom before, but now you have maybe the confidence to do it or the drive. I would say it's given me the space, you know.

40:01
Because yeah, I mean, I've always, what's interesting is during, you know, in recovery, you know, bipolar disorder is not something you just like flip a switch and it's not like a cold where it's like, oh, you know, I had a bad case of, it was a Chris Rock routine, I had a bad case of bipolar, but I took some Robitussin. So when I say recovery, I just mean from that low period, right, where it was just felt hopeless. What's interesting, are you familiar with the Myers-Briggs type indicator?

40:30
A little bit. Yeah. So I won't go into the whole taxonomy here, but... Yeah, please don't. What's interesting is I'll just talk about one part of it, which is just I used to be very... I was very extroverted before, right? And so E is that's the letter. I was very extroverted throughout my whole life and that was because my parents were always kind of the life of the party and I sort of... Obviously genetic expression, et cetera. But after sort

40:59
personality, that charisma with mania. And so I really sort of suppressed it a lot. And I was always like, I think of it almost like a speedometer, right? Where my, my personality was really gravitating towards the eye speedometer, the introvert, right? I wanted to just keep everything bottled up. I didn't want to be too over the top, too expressive, because I didn't want people to think, oh, you know, is, isn't it kill off as meds or, you know, is I didn't want to invite

41:29
that scrutiny, right? But I do feel that the podcast has given me that channel and it's almost been like a catalyst for bringing that extroverted dynamic back to the forefront. Having these conversations, whether it's on the show or just conversations on social media, it's just given me the permission in that space to reengage with that extroverted avatar, if you will. Yeah, I can see that. I always kind of looked at extrovert. I mean,

41:58
For me, the way that I perceive extrovert versus introvert, which is probably wrong, but the way I thought of it is that earlier version of you that you associated that extroverted personality to, you were always chasing. You were always chasing the next high, whatever that was, a promotion, a more money, approval from your parents, whatever that might be. You're always looking for that external validation of some sort that would give you that, I'm generalizing here.

42:26
And then as an introvert, when you kind of realized who you were and what you were doing and the way that you want to exist in the space, it almost sounds like you got your power from inside versus you didn't need to prove that anymore to other people. Like I would think of an introvert, like I'm very, I'm not really super extroverted, but I get most of my power from being alone and getting and thinking and feeling and writing and those kind of things is what energizes me.

42:56
Like I'll have these conversations and then I'll have to go take a nap after because sometimes they get really, you know, like they get, they go into places that you don't expect. And so I kind of see that in a little bit of a different way in the sense that like you were able to give a little bit of calm to yourself in the, and find power within versus trying to grab the power from around you. Is that like way off base of the old version of you to like,

43:21
kind of when you became a little less extroverted in that way? I mean, my mind's blown because I think you've, you know, you really have nailed it. That's exactly, I never thought about it that way, but that's exactly what happened where it was just like, yeah, I think I, it's almost like, how would I say this? Maybe like a personality sabbatical, if that makes sense, right? Because you're engaged in this chase and it's exhausting because, you know, no matter how many likes you got on that latest social media post, there's always somebody who got more or...

43:50
you know, maybe it didn't land the way you wanted it to, or, you know, your dance card isn't as full as your friends or whoever, you know. So yeah, when you're chasing that external validation, it can be exhausting. So you need to get off that, as you said, you need to get off that hamster wheel and, you know, go inside and explore a little bit more. So yeah. Do you find that you're more in touch with yourself nowadays? 100%, yeah. And I think that this could be a whole other

44:19
episode in and of itself, but a lot of that has come from doing a lot of the traditions that I had alluded to and I've talked to about on the podcast and specifically breath work. You love that breath work. Oh, I'm all about the breath, man. It is so incredible that when we just spend 20 minutes in the morning just getting in touch with our parasympathetic nervous system, again, could talk for hours about it, but the...

44:46
To answer your question in terms of sort of getting in tune with myself, it is just about tapping into that inner voice, that inner child, and really just nourishing that part of myself, rather than focusing on, you know, the shiny new toy or that other dopamine hit. I think it's super common. I mean, I don't know if a lot of people are trying different modalities in the way that you have. Were these modalities introduced to you?

45:14
through your podcast or were there things that you were finding on your own and then happened to kind of like talk to people about? Or were you like very receptive to like anyone that you were talking to like, oh, maybe I should try that. Yeah, I mean. Like subtle, I heard subtle yoga the other day and I was like, I don't know. Oh yeah, Chris McDonald. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's a great question. So what's interesting is I had actually come across a platform called Mindvalley, which I don't know if we've talked about, but.

45:41
I had gone to, they have this thing called Mindvalley University. It's, uh, you can do it for three weeks or you can do it for one week. But my wife and I went, it was held in Estonia, which I had never even heard of before, but it was this amazing event. And that was where I came into contact with Soma Breath where, you know, that, that's, that's the modality that my wife and I actually became certified as instructors were really going all in, uh, just trying to bring this to the world. But.

46:08
That's a good question. I mean, it is interesting, again, the point of serendipity. It's not like I went to this event just sort of as an open, you know, just keeping my mind open, right? I didn't go there in search of one specific goal, but again, the power of serendipity, it opened my eyes to this modality that is now just, I mean, it's amazing how it's transformed my physiology, my mindset, just every day I do feel a lot more.

46:38
at peace, I do feel a lot more, but also in flow. I mean, I just feel like there's more creativity, there's more creative downloads, as I would call it. And again, who knows? I mean, if that event hadn't transpired, if I had been exposed to that, but. Yeah, how did you find out about the event? I think it was... Were you searching? Yeah, that's a really good question. I think there was a video about...

47:04
I think it was just like a random, someone had posted a LinkedIn video clip. And it just- Because you had been looking at other stuff and the algorithm was like, ooh, maybe he wants this. Yeah. You know all about digital marketing. Exactly, exactly. But yeah, I mean, again, it's amazing sort of how serendipity and just sort of going down those rabbit holes where it can lead us, you know? Did the old version of you believe in serendipity?

47:30
Or was it very, were you very structured? Like, no, I have to do it this way. And this is the only way that I can do it so that it can then go up the ladder and go here, because I kind of picture like that was maybe more of a structured version of you, although, you know, you had your, your highs and your lows. But like, I feel like you were more of like, no, were you? I love it. You're like, yeah. Oh, I love the direction. That yeah, I love the direction this is going. I mean, it's just, it's, it's causing, it's forcing me to think about a lot of these things.

47:58
You can tell me I'm wrong too, even though it's my podcast. I would say the short answer is no. I don't think I was averse to serendipity. But what was happening, and I still fall prey to this now as well, is there was a lot of that shiny new toy syndrome where it was just, the problem was, what I would say is there's networking and there's not working. You know what I mean? Where it's like, I think networking, as you know, I mean, with your podcast AMAs and...

48:28
all the people you've come into contact with, it can be extremely rewarding. It can be extremely fulfilling, but you can also fall prey to just sort of going off the rails where you're just signing up for a white paper where you're just, you know, doing that latest masterclass, et cetera. And if there's no method behind the madness, it can really derail you. You know what I mean? And so when I was in that, I guess, Nikhil 1.0 phase,

48:57
I was exploring a lot of these things, but there was no, I don't think there was a real, there wasn't like a, there weren't any guardrails, if that makes sense, right? And so there wasn't any cohesive journey to that. So it's kind of a paradox, right? It was really just like chasing, yeah, chasing the next like, oh, this might work, or this might work. Whereas now you're like, I'll try it. If it doesn't work, that's okay. You know, now I know.

49:25
Whereas before it was probably like, try, boom. Kind of like this fall thing. It goes back to that analogy of, I would say, personal growth. My favorite analogy is just the house, right? It's gotta be, you've gotta construct a house of personal growth, but it's gotta be built on solid foundation, because otherwise, you're just gonna drive yourself completely batty. So if we were to think about your story, and what has, like that.

49:55
that turning point that really feels like it changed the most, would you say it was like the first time you sat on your podcast and had a conversation with someone else where you were controlling your own narrative in that part of the story, or would you put it earlier or later? Like, where do you feel like you started really leading into this version of Nikhil? Yeah, I mean, I would definitely say that it all goes back to the podcast. And

50:24
Yeah. It goes back to that first conversation I had where it was ironically somebody that I went to college with who I hadn't talked to in a long time. Just the ability to have that dialogue about a journey that I had gone through, about a struggle that I had faced, I really feel like that was the starting point. Now, granted, again, it's so interesting because six months ago I would have said it was the mental health diagnosis. Don't get me wrong. I think that was...

50:53
A very important moment to yes, very pivotal moment and it has definitely laid the foundation But I would say matt really that first conversation Of my podcast where I was talking to somebody Who was intimately familiar with mental health in the south asian diaspora? Just the chance to have that conversation and I bring this up also because What is amazing when I go back to when I say the the power of conversation to catalyze change?

51:22
I hadn't talked to my brother in, I think, seven years this last February, but he reached out to me and he said, I've been listening to your podcast and I'm so proud of you. The journey, the progress that you've made is just so incredible to see and I'm really proud of you. And granted, I mean, our relationship, you know, it didn't go from like, you know,

51:48
It wasn't an overnight thing, just add water where we're best pals again. Okay. There's still, it's still a work in progress, but the point I'm making that epiphany or that, you know, that, that validation, I think that impact that it made on him, I mean, in terms of thinking about mental health, in terms of thinking about the cultural implications, I'm sure it's not an isolated thing. I'm sure there are so many other people that I don't even know across the planet.

52:18
And that is something you can definitely relate to, I'm sure. But just knowing that you have that power to touch someone's life with a conversation is mind-blowing. It's beautiful, and I'm so grateful for it. I would also say that a big part of it is that you're sharing more of yourself, like vulnerability, with your guests. And just that aspect of it feels like very

52:46
much like it's not necessarily the podcast as much as it is this like these conversations that you're having like forget that it's recorded and those kind of things. It's like I feel like that is really fueling you as well. You're kind of changing you. Sometimes when I have these conversations, I have like these painted pictures in my head of like their people's journeys and so this I don't know. I'm just going to tell you what I was picturing when you were kind of telling your story of this like chapters one and two kind of feeling of your life.

53:16
is I was kind of picturing this old version of Nikhil before diagnosis, before you were just kind of, you know, spinning wheels, but you were kind of like stuck in mud. And then once you got kind of some answers and kind of figured out, okay, like this is the direction, you're kind of like trudging through the mud. And then once you started owning those conversations on your own, I kind of see you walking out of that mud pit and kind of just like walking on normal earth now.

53:42
where you can do what you need to do and control the direction that you wanna go. If you wanna go right, you can go right. If you wanna go left, you can go left. But that was the visual that I kinda saw like this mud then some like trudging through it to get you to this place where like, sky's the limit. Do whatever you want and however it serves you, that's gonna be what is good for you, not what other people are telling you and those kinda things. So take that for what it is, but that's what I saw when you were kinda telling your story. Yeah, I love that, Matt. That's incredible.

54:12
That's- And weird. No, no, I think it's amazing how, I think spot on it is. Yeah, because yeah, I mean, do I have down days? Of course, who doesn't, right? Welcome to being a human. Exactly. But there is this lightness now. And I gotta tell you, I mean, the fact, when you mentioned the word subtle yoga, it just, it warmed my heart because I'm like, wow, you know, is Matt gonna go become like a certified yoga instructor? No.

54:41
Definitely not, I can guarantee you. But the point is, I mean, the fact that our discussion, it sort of sparked an interest, a kernel of interest, maybe a passing interest, who knows. But the point is, I mean, it sparked a thought. There you go. That's probably the most charitable way to put it. But the point is, it got you thinking about something. And so I think of that. I think of that impact.

55:10
And it really warms my heart. So I do feel the lightness and I do love that mud analogy. I think that's very, very apropos. It's very interesting when I have these like because I'm not that kind of person like I or I maybe I am. I just never was before where I kind of would visualize things in that way. I was very like type A, like everything by the book, like.

55:35
And so now I have these conversations and now I have this space like you do to kind of just like say things out loud and not have any kind of shame that's attached with it. I think for so long, my journey was very much in corporate America or those types jobs where you'd be in a meeting and like, you're not listening. You're just waiting for the next silence to say the next smartest thing. You know, like you just like wait, pick on me. I'm going to say something that's going to blow your mind and everyone's going to approve or applaud or I'm going to get a promotion. And that was kind of very much my journey.

56:04
And now I found that the more that I can just be me and just share things out loud, and this seems very much like your journey of like, it's out there now, you know? And like to your point, we're all gonna have bad days, but we know how to handle them now. We know when they come, what to do, what works for us, because we're willing enough to like investigate, right? Like to go, okay, well, when I feel this way and I do this, I do breath work, I do whatever that might be.

56:34
I'm going to feel a little bit better. So that's kind of what I get from your journey is like, you're just leaning into you more so these days. Let me ask you a question, Matt, if you don't mind if we have time. Go for it. I'll cut it out. Okay, then. I just was curious, like, what is your concept of like community with your guests in terms of people that you've talked to? I mean, granted, you're not going to become best friends with everyone, you're not going to have everyone over for, you know, Sunday night football. But the point is, you've made a connection.

57:04
always fascinated to hear what people think. Because there are people who have had all these interviews and that's it. They're like, their guest is on, boom. But I'm just curious to know what your experience has been if you feel comfortable sharing. I feel like probably 60% of the people that I've had the fortune of speaking to, I feel like we connect in some capacity through social media, email, those kind of things.

57:32
I think there are naturally people that go on podcasts and you either don't feel connected with the host or the guest or you had a purpose and that purpose was fulfilled and that was kind of your check mark for the day. So I think there's naturally going to be those people. But I would say on this journey so far, there's probably, probably about 60% of the people that I've talked to is kind of like, we have an extended relationship beyond the conversation. Because think about it, like we'll have conversations where...

58:02
Maybe they've never talked about that before. And so now they're sharing that with me. So I naturally feel very connected to most of my guests when they share something like that. But yeah, and I don't know how I build that community, but I try to keep in touch. I try to share things that they do or speak with them. But yeah, I never thought I would be at this point in my journey. I never thought that.

58:30
Like if I think back to the eight year old version of me, like I could, not even, there's not even any kind of, that version of me was not allowed to feel certain ways because I don't know, because I assumed that I wasn't allowed because I was a boy, so I wasn't allowed to cry, I wasn't allowed to be sad, I wasn't, you know, like all those things that we assumed in the 80s and the 90s, maybe even earlier, but I only know the 80s and the 90s.

58:56
But now I get to do this and get to have this community and get to talk to people like you and ask questions that may or may not resonate with people, but not feel bad about them. Because I think more people should have conversations in which we ask questions that could be wrong, that could not work, that could not come across. And I think that's important. We were so conditioned to like, just like the thing I talk to a lot of people about is like that whole, how are you question. And everyone's like, good, how are you?

59:26
Yeah. It's like, don't let's have real conversations. And if my question doesn't land, it doesn't land. You know, like, and that's OK. So. Catalysing change. Why'd you ask that? Yeah. Just curious. I mean, I just am interested in knowing. Because again, not every guest I have on my show, I wouldn't say like we're best friends, per se. But I just do feel very fortunate that there are, let's say, 65. Because a couple of these are rebroadcast or whatever. Let's say.

59:54
Let's say 60, let's split the difference. But the point is there are 60 people that I've shared space with, you know, whether it's an hour where we've, what I would call like co-created something, where we've collaborated. And that's amazing. I feel very fortunate in that, to have that community. And whether, you know, whatever the nature of our subsequent interactions is, we've formed that connection. We've put something out there for the universe to consume, process, tease apart.

01:00:23
And it's out there, so I feel fortunate about that. And I think we're better because of it. Even if that's where it ends, I think we're better because of it in whatever way that needed to serve us. I like to kind of wrap up these conversations with a question, and I'm wondering if this version of you, the way you feel now, the serendipitous version of you, could go back to the Nikhil that was like chasing, that was trying to find the next.

01:00:51
thing that would either stick it to the person that you were upset with that day. Is there anything that you would want to do, say, be with that version of you to help him on this journey moving forward?

01:01:04
I would say breathe. I would just say take a step back, put your phone on airplane mode or just silence your notifications and just get in touch with that inner dialogue. Stop listening to that voice, that monkey mind that's telling you to go after that Facebook update or maybe just as you said.

01:01:34
jump into that conversation and that conference call where you have to be the most insightful or the most thoughtful person, right? And just quiet, quiet. And the only way you can do that is through your breath. So just take a deep breath, exhale, and you'll see that it's a lot less noisy, it's a lot less busy, and it's a lot less chaotic. And you're okay.

01:02:04
You're not, you're safe and tomorrow's another day. Yeah, there's probably a lot of fear in that version of you of like that you weren't safe. I think that word's super important. I think it's interesting to think about that. Like what would we say to those people? I know it's not possible, but it also shows us the growth that we've made and it seems like you're very much a different person or the way that you approached life is a lot different now.

01:02:31
I'm thankful that we got to have this conversation and I got to ask you silly questions and talk to you about the mud. If people wanna like learn more about you, get in your orbit, listen to your podcast, I'll definitely put that link in the show notes, but what's the best way to like get around you and to be in your space? So the best way would be, first of all, I wanna say thanks again, Matt. I just really loved being on the show. So many amazing just things we teased apart and...

01:03:01
wrestled with. It was just, it was incredible. So thank you. Thank you. The best way I would say to get ahold of me is through Instagram. And that would be at my, uh, my, uh, my, my handle, uh, would be untether your life in terms of the podcast, go to untether your life.com. Uh, all one word. I'm also on places like, um, you know, LinkedIn and, uh, and Twitter. So LinkedIn is just my name, Akil Torsakar. And then Twitter it's on actually as the Shelley story or X I guess.

01:03:30
But yeah, the best. I still call it Twitter. Yeah, it's still Twitter to me. The best way I would say would be untetheryourlife.com for the podcast. And to get in touch with me, I invite everyone who's listening, if this resonated with you or if it didn't, hit me up at Untether Your Life. That's my Instagram handle. On Instagram, yeah. Yeah, I appreciate you and being willing to let me go down different alleyways and ask you questions about that because I think there is such value in having these conversations.

01:03:59
I hope that someone out there is listening and feels a little less alone in their circumstances or inspires them to think a little bit differently in whatever way that may be. So again, thank you for being a part of this. Thanks so much, Matt. And if you're listening and you enjoyed listening to this episode and you think someone in your family or someone in your circle might need to hear it, please share it with someone. I think that's the best way to get the Life Shift podcast to grow even more.

01:04:29
With that, I will say goodbye until next week when we have a brand new episode of the LifeShift Podcast. Thanks again, Nikhil. Thank you.