Journey from Addiction to Self-Love and Triumph | Levi Kreis

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I'm Matt Gilhooly and this is The Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that change lives forever. friends. I am here with my friend Levi and we actually had the opportunity to talk for your podcast which came out a few weeks ago by the time this one comes out. But I appreciate you being here with me my friend. It was a pleasure talking with you then and I'm glad we get to do it again. Thanks for having me on. And as we're recording this, so as everyone knows I record these a little bit way ahead of time, but this is Tony week. And so I think I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you how you feel when Tony Week comes around each year. Oh my God. So for those of who are meeting me for the first time during listening to this podcast, I am a singer songwriter and an actor. And in 2010, my life kind of changed a little bit when a piece that I had been developing for six years, was nominated for a Tony Award. My role was nominated for a Tony Award, Best Featured Actor, and the book was nominated. And at the end of the day, I took home the Tony Award for Best Featured Actor in a musical. And that alone is a great life shift conversation really, because that year... It's not nearly as glamorous as people think, actually, you know, when you're getting up at 430 AM to do Good Morning America and then filling the rest of the day with press and to get back and do a show at night and you're doing eight shows a week and you're constantly doing press during the day and you're just trying to not look like you have bags under your eyes and staying in vocal health and all of that sort of stuff. It was a whirlwind of a year that ended in... what I would actually describe as a somber moment. A lot of people would be like, ah, victorious moment, a celebratory moment. For me, it was really somber in that it was sort of coming to a bit of an end of a finish line. That night at the Tony Awards, I believe, I've done the math before, I don't recall what it is, but I want to say I was only 18 months sober from a crystal meth addiction. And the entire first year was like a wobbling around on fawn legs. He just are sort of glazed over half the time thinking you don't have the drug. You don't know who you are. All of the neurons, the neurological pathways that have wired and fired together, aren't wiring and firing together anymore. And you feel a loss because so many ways that you have related to yourself, whether it be through intimacy or whether it be through self-worth, all that stuff is kind of ripped away because it was all defined through your drug use. And then on top of that, just prior to taking the show from Chicago to Broadway, I had busted what was my third ACL. So I was mad rehabbing while trying to stay clean, while trying to look like it was easy on stage for everyone. And then finally the nominations come out, the Tony Awards happen as if they did like they did this week. And that acceptance speech was more about me appreciating the fact that I had learned what it meant to love myself. What it meant to really understand the worth, the value in me. And that has been the through line of my story. When we get into it, there's so many little anecdotes, scenarios, relationships that point to a lack of self-worth, a lack of really valuing who I am. And so my theme of life is self-love. Oftentimes, I don't love how that sounds because we live in a very... I would call it like a fashionable spirituality these days where we're all very much about self-love and it's like a very common meme on Instagram. It's thrown around with a lot of carelessness when actually being that I know for a fact that self-love is an action verb, it also means discipline, which is not a sexy conversation for a lot of people to have because discipline... really choosing to invest in your daily spiritual life every day, choosing to invest in your sobriety every day, choosing to invest in your relationship every day, choosing to invest even in your family every day, your chosen family every day too. Those are ways that we love ourselves. And those things take time. Those things take intention and decision and planning and sometimes a to-do list, not very glamorous, but that is a part of self-love because it's not just about, I want to self-care a day and check out of a show. my matinee show and not clock in and sit in the Epson salt for a while. That's one way that's fine. That's valid. But, but sometimes self love is not understood to be the proactive lifestyle that it is. Yeah, I think a lot of people just like you said, just use it as like, so spa day, right? Like this, I'm just I'm paying attention to me today, versus every day I'm intentionally setting goals to make sure that I am practicing proper self love. I think it's interesting too, to add to the fact that, or you saying that acceptance speech was kind of like that somber moment of celebrating your self love and your ability to kind of appreciate what you've done and what you've created in your new version of yourself, which we'll talk about the life shift that you hinted at as well. And I think you probably wouldn't have had those experiences had it not been for 18 months prior to that. But I think we should add to the fact that what you won for was a very physical, physically demanding role as well. Yeah. Right. I mean, that in addition to, you know, say shows in themselves just doing that grueling eight shows a week. that's exhausting in itself, right? But you had to put in, I mean, you can't really put in 110%, but if you could, you would've, right? You put in every ounce of your being. And I always strive to, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. That's my work ethic as an actor, though. Yeah, it does, it really does. Even doing, you know, currently listeners, I reimagine the role of Hermes for a show that did very well on Broadway, Eight Tony Awards. Hadestown and that is also very physical, but also with the added component of being very emotional and the more that I've dug into the character over the course of the months of touring, the deeper the grooves have gotten emotionally to where like my relationship with Orpheus is so paramount and so important and so nuanced that like I mean, at this point doing the show now, very different from when we started in September because it took me a little while to find it. They threw me into a machine that already existed and gave me no direction because they knew that I would bring something that was unique and different and they didn't know how to guide that yet. I needed to show them. So it's taken me a while to find the character and to really dive deep into it. And at this point, I'm just emotionally exhausted. after the show. And so yeah, but the but coming back to 2010 with Million Dollar Quartet, that was the name of the show. Yeah, it was a lot of jumping off pianos and playing the piano backwards and running around and bloody fingers, bloody fingers. Yes. Yeah. Three ACL surgeries. Yeah. Well, I one last thing and then we'll get into your story. But I have the pleasure of seeing you in violet. And I don't remember what year that was. That was 2014, I think. And that was just a really cool opportunity where I was already going to New York and you were filling in for someone for some period of time, weren't you? Or you were placing someone? The, a friend of mine, Ben, who actually started the role in the revival, Violet with Sutton Foster. he ended up getting a gig as an, because he's also a beautiful opera singer. And so he had to leave very quickly. And as a matter of fact, they called me because it was always like really close to me and him in the beginning anyway. For whatever reason, they went with him, I think they probably had like relationships that had a few years behind them and went with someone that they already kind of kind of really knew personally, perhaps, I'm guessing. But they called me and said, he's leaving in six days. And I'm like, seriously? So I got the script after that phone call and six days later, I was on stage on Broadway in front of my first audience. It was the scariest experience. I mean, how do you do character work on an entire script plus your blocking, plus your music, woodshedding, all of that in six days? Six days, crazy. Well, and now too is interesting, I mean, we're going way off topic, but that's fine. Now, did you see, like with all the COVID protocols on Broadway, the things that people are doing? The girl from North Country, the lead actress, her husband had to fill in because they ran out of standbys and swings, and he's not in the show, and he had to come on and perform, found out in the morning and performed later that evening. I mean, we do whatever we do to keep the... to keep the door open. Keep those tickets coming. Anyway, so that's our little Broadway talk. I think it's, we would be remiss if we were recording during Tony week and we didn't talk about your Tony win, which is so cool. And I don't think that without this, well, maybe, but probably without this life shift that you had, the life that you created maybe not would have been, you know, wouldn't have been the same for you. I have to ask before we leave this though, Matt, you knowing me since 2004, was that a surprise for you? That that happened in 2010? I mean, that whole life shift itself. I mean, because we knew each other as like, here I was an indie singer songwriter. And that was just kind of the understanding of how... On a select show. on a said show. We won't talk about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, the fact that you won, no, because your talent is undeniable. So that was not surprising to me. However, I didn't know you in the acting sense, but I think Million Dollar Quartet was a solid place for you to be because you were portraying a singer, right? A singer-songwriter. Yeah, yeah. a very famous one, which makes it even harder, but at least you were in your element of playing music, performing music, and then you have the piece. So I didn't know, but it didn't surprise me. But I think part of your story, because I do remember in some of our... So we met in 2004 back in the MySpace days, and Levi was as part of a... final challenge in a or maybe it wasn't a final challenge it was part of a challenge in a competition show you weren't competing but you were one of the I was chosen by one of the teams yeah to one of the teams each team had an unsigned artist and they were to write record package and produce a song and submit it to XM radio XM cafe was the channel of the time and the winner was going to be presented to the world on XM radio and my team won. Yeah, and it was cool. And so that was back in the time for me when my space was kind of new and you had all these profile songs and things and I just reached out and I was like, I loved the song. I loved what you did. And somehow here we are in 2022. Well, I tell you jumping, jumping back jumping right into the life shift conversation, you probably didn't know that during that very time shooting that episode. any sort of exchanges we had around that time, I was really in the throes of my addiction at the time, and was very good at hiding it. I do remember blips of that. And but were you in LA for a lot of this? Yeah, shortly after that episode aired, I went back to LA, which I considered home at the time. So why don't you just give us kind of a backstory of kind of like, what was life like before you got to that? that moment in which you knew for yourself you had to change, what was happening before that? I think this is true for me, and I think it's true for a lot of those out there who might suffer from alcoholism or addiction, in that life just is an overwhelming. secret. So many secrets to keep up with. So many lies, so many things you have to hide. There is this constant negotiation on how to, you know, you're always navigating your shadow self because it's so imperative that you keep this from everyone who loves you, especially when you were doing something that isn't a very sexy addiction like crystal meth, you know, our society, whether people realize it or not. do have judgments about what kind of substances are not as bad to be addicted to is not. Obviously, cocaine is a little sexier than meth, alcohol is a little sexier. Meth, you immediately think of like, well, this white trash kit from Tennessee has got an addiction. But the thing that I can remember looking back is like, it is absolutely staggering to me, the constant the obsessive strategizing that you're doing 24-7 to carve out a room, a window, a place, a time. partner with which to escape and use. And it started out rather mild because when I moved from Tennessee to Los Angeles, I ran into some fellows in the gay community who introduced me to drugs and introduced me to meth. And at the time, it started out every now and then. And that every now and then became like maybe once a month. It became like once every two or three months, and then it became once a month, and then it became once a weekend until it was telling me when I wanted to do it. The drug has a mind of its own, and it doesn't care if you're on tour doing Pride festivals. It doesn't care if you are having successes that the world is sort of looking at. At the time, I remember finding out that I should go had it had been pushed into the ACE adult contemporary radio stations in many stations across the country, but without a record label without anything because they had heard it on said show or they heard it on days of our lives. And somehow it ended little did they know it in the top 20 in heavy rotation. And I remember finding that out. The moment I found that out, I was so high and so, you know, that like, we're just three sheets to the wind. And that was the first moment I was just like, and then the second moment I remember, I was in some, at the back of some club using, and this sweet, innocent kid who was just walking through looking for his friend, I feel a tap on my shoulder and I'm fully engaged in using. And he's like, Are you Levi? And I said, yes. He goes, oh my God, I listened to your album all the way here and it is making such a difference right now as I'm really trying to understand coming out. And I'm sitting here trying to take this moment in, gone. Like, really. And it was, those moments became so much more common in that I was caught between a life I wanted to create and the life I was hiding. And I actually thought I was hiding it really well, but I think one of the, you know, first of all, my buddy Leslie Jordan, who I had already met very shortly after moving to Los Angeles, who also has a history of drug addiction and is sober, knew right away. So I wasn't fooling him. And matter of fact, Del Shores, my friend, writer, and director also knew shortly, because I would be singing a song that I wrote for his... play Southern Baptist Sissies, now it's a movie. We did a music video for it. This is a song called Stained Glass Window, which talks a lot about something I know very well about, which is after going through six years of conversion therapy to make me straight from eighth grade to my first year of college, this story of religion versus sexuality has become a part, kind of a lot of my music has been interlaced with that in the past. That's Dale's writing as well, that's what brought us together. But as I sang the song so often after his play, I would come in thinking I was invincible, on point, great, and completely singing it. And he would just be like, you don't get to come to my play high and do this. And so it snowballs when you don't even know it because all of a sudden you lose that friend and then you lose all your friends. And then nobody is reaching out anymore because they realize that you're not reliable. And then you're taking risks not only with career, but you're taking increased risks, means you're taking increased risk with your health. And by 2009, I had gotten to a point where I had abused so much that there was a doctor's visit that changed my life. And still to this day, not one that I can talk about, but within that... veiled conversation, which I will leave veiled, my life changed. And I realized that there was no choice. Matter of fact, she told me I have no choice, you have to stop or you're going to die. And had you been getting I mean, you mentioned these little signals along the way with the person in the club and Dell and some of your other friends, were there? Were there any of those moments where you felt maybe I need to do something about this? Or was it really like to the wall until that conversation that kind of triggered it. I think my response is like most addicts and alcoholics whereas like you really do think you're in control. There's an arrogance almost. Did you think you had a problem? No, I didn't. I mean you knew, no? By 2008, no this is true, by 2007 I met my first sponsor. who has an incredible story, if people want to check that out, it's the very first episode of season three on my podcast, Imagine Paradise, and podcast. And what he discusses how his Matthews drove him not only to lose his friends, his job, his health, drove him to the street, and he became homeless for quite a while, living under a bridge, then started figuring out how he was going to survive, ultimately got caught up in the Mexican mafia. selling drugs, went to prison a couple times, finally found his way out. Matter of fact, we found out later when he became my sponsor that back in the day, when he actually had an ankle bracelet, where he was on house arrest, I partied with them. Didn't even realize it. It was crazy. But he has become this incredibly successful graphic designer. is giving so much outreach to the recovery community and is just this wonderfully handsome, sharp, intelligent together successful man now with a story with a story to tell. But I don't think that any of us realize things have gotten that far we can we can literally like I'll never forget what he was telling me like he had did something like maybe it was because of using he had lost some teeth and he had wedged rocks, he was so high, wedged rocks into his mouth to have teeth and thought it was completely fine. Like nobody would notice. And you know, we are a crazy group of people, us addicts, you know? And we understand that until we reach a point where we realize that we are powerless to control it. do we then begin to find our real power? Yeah, it's always curious to me because I don't I can't relate as an addict. But I always question whether or not that's someone that is aware and they're just kind of lying to themselves or are they really not aware that this is happening? So it's so interesting. That's why I asked that question because I don't really understand and I guess the closest I can get to it is having gone through like depression in my life in random phases and like there were times that it was really bad like real bad and I think I knew it was really bad but I also think I chose to stay in it because it was easier is that similar? Like is it is it easier to stay an addict? It must be right easier to stay an addict than it is to work your way out of it. I think that's a I think that's a good comparison, frankly, because I can't tell you that I didn't know that I had a problem. I think by 2007, when I finally found my first sponsor, and he taught he and he took me to meetings, and I spent 2007 in 2008, not being able to really put a lot of time together, but I was trying so I knew I had any a problem by 2007. And yeah, you know, if addicts were being really honest, I think that it sounds like what you said, where we kind of know. But it's just not something we desire enough to emerge from to get out of. I mean, honestly, as in those heights of depression, I'd fortunately somehow made my way out of it. But in those heights of it, I feel like I was well aware that this was like, not a space that I needed to be in and I could be somewhere else, but I chose to stay there. It's kind of like when you're sad and you choose to listen to a really sad song. It's like minimalizing it to that. It's kind of like that, you know, obviously exponentially more disturbing, but. I think that and that's why I ask it's because it's like I don't know. I mean, I don't know what that's like. And so that's why I want to ask. Well, I think that I could probably drill down into what you just said and say there's a difference between romancing the melancholy and. Yeah, definitely. And. Perpetually operating from. a place of unconscious self-hate. I think there are some parallels between a serious depression and addiction. I think there are probably connections. Not that either of us are doctors. I'm not. No, I meant romancing the melancholy as I was thinking of myself the way that I am totally in one of those moods one time and just decide to enjoy. going deeper into it with a good Adele song or something. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Who doesn't love a good cry? Come on. I love a good one. Maybe not an Adele song, but I could I could. I used to have I used to have those playlists ready to go. But anyway, yeah. So you have this conversation that was kind of like that final trigger. Was it was it the trigger that conversation with the doctor that led you to just get clean? Like, was it a cold turkey at that point? It was her ultimatum saying that if you don't, I don't know how much I can, I don't know much what we could do. You're going to have to, like you're going to run yourself in the ground and it's not going to be good. So like she gave me a very hard ultimatum and said, you have, I mean, the only option at this point with what I'm looking at is you have to stop. So, but even then I left, I came home. And that part of me that just is. still angry. Maybe angry at me? Angry at... all the things that probably contributed to this perpetual self hate and all the activity that surrounded it. I don't know what it was, but I went hard for like one more weekend. And after that, it went hard. And then after that, I was so devastated, probably went harder than I had ever gone and was reckless. In a lot of ways. And that's when I remember like wanting it to just wear off and just like. asking myself how could I possibly ever think about getting to the other end of this. I've been trying to put time together since 2007. At this point, it's January of 2009. And for some reason, my aha moment was if I can't forgive myself for all the ways that I have abused myself, then I will never get... I will never be able to crack open the layers upon layers upon layers of self-hatred enough to get to any other me that is going to do things that nurture me and love me. And I was coming down from that high and sitting on the floor of my studio apartment in Wrightwood and Clark in Chicago. And that's when I started writing the lyrics to let it go while I was coming down. Yeah. And that's my favorite song of yours, by the way. And it's probably the rawest and the realest too, because it was me working out at the moment. I have to take myself off the hook because I've always blamed myself for everything that I've ever done. And I've always felt like, why can't I process things and work it out better? And where's my spirituality? It's just like when you know better. you do better. There was so much that I grew up so engaged in my spiritual life as a kid and as someone who also I felt was as a little gospel kid, I felt like I was anointed to be a healer. And give me a give me I mean, I felt like it was absolutely the anointing of the Holy Spirit that I was supposed to heal through my music. I knew it. I lived it. 12 years old going to a different church every weekend for my entire life with my little 15 year old. gospel album that I was selling eventually afterwards, meeting with all the major Christian and gospel publishing companies by 16, signing with them, signing the gospel record deal by 19. All of that was my life. Of course, that all ended when they found out that I had gone to conversion therapy and that I was not straight. Another story, but I always thought, you know, I think the thing that was made me so hard on myself is because I knew that I was... spiritually powerful and I was running from it the whole time. And I knew that if I could lean into what I knew and just show up and figure it out, I could get through this. And I was so mad at God for all of the missed opportunities because of being disenfranchised as someone who was in the recording industry as gay and openly gay in the very beginning. So many missed opportunities. I was just mad at God, I guess. I was really mad at at feeling as though my entire 20s was just pissed down the drain because of this gay thing. I couldn't get over that anger either, but I at least had to start the process by forgiving myself for doing so much harm to my body, to my mind, to my career, to my relationships, to my friendships. Does writing do that for you? Does it release? something I know for me putting something on paper just whatever I'm thinking. I mean, I'm sure songwriting is a little bit. I love that about you too. I like that about you. Yeah. So pour it out. But yeah, yeah. I mean, and honestly that's you are healing people with your music by sharing your authentic experience. And so in that song, I mean, immediately connected to that song and it heals. It is it's we. for some reason, I don't think you're unique to this. I think we all blame ourselves, or many of us blame ourselves for things that weren't really in our control to begin with, right? I mean, most of that stuff, if we go back to that true self love that you spoke about earlier, if you were doing, you know, I mean, if you were really living that authentically, I know you don't love that word, but like just. I don't know, just doing what your path was meant to do. And maybe this was what your path was supposed to be. Right? Maybe those blockages and addiction and maybe you needed all that. I mean, it sucks, but. And maybe all of the rejection from all of the mainstream. You know, I mean, it's such a, it's such a, it's just, it's such vast riches to think about the producers who have signed me and recorded me over the last years, only to find out when the marketing department found out that I was gay, they just didn't know what to do it. Like early 2000s, we just didn't have a template for anyone coming out as gay. We had gay people who had already had well-established careers and great success. who then revealed that they were gay. But very few, if any, examples of someone starting out openly gay in the recording industry. Producers that have, every piano vocal, singer-songwriter you can imagine, from a Gavin Jagraw producer to a Vanessa Carlton producer, to all of these. And yeah, I think the rejection though, to your point, also informs who I am now. Because... Growing up, I only ever thought that healing could take place when I was immersed in a gospel song and the Holy Spirit decided to descend and take me over and I knew I was a conduit for something so much greater than me and I don't even know what I'm doing vocally. I don't even know what I'm doing. I am just in this flow and it happens. And so my challenge has been, how do I have that experience as me outside of the church? someone who's not welcome in the church, with music that is not gospel because I want to invite everyone to the table regardless of what your beliefs are and channel that powerful healing Holy Spirit energy to any one of any walk of life of any creed, race, religion possible. And to me, that is still the highest goal. And I feel a reignited call to that. And it just gets me emotional because as I'm currently writing this new musical and I'm having to look back over my life in such nuance. And Randy, who was your guest on your podcast as this airs, you want to look weeks back listeners. Define Randy Red, who is the co-writer of a new musical that we've been working on for about a year and a half. He's really making me look and ask myself, who do I right now, Levi, in 2022, think and feel about this and about this and about this event and about this and this and this so that it's coming from a very present day. And it's not all healing, love, and light either. It's like there are... very strong feelings about some of my history that I still haven't quite dealt with. But to the point of what I'm saying, I'm feeling a renewed sense of a real call to create something that is so authentic, like Let It Go is, that I'm not worried about. trying to find a genre that might it might appeal to or trying to find it be if I can create the perfect ear worm or whatever the case. Sorry, I had to interject. No, but here's what I was thinking when you were saying this, when you were saying the part about feeling like you, you know, taken over by quote, by gospel, right? And you're in this gospel song. But from someone on the outside that's listened to your music, that's followed your journey, you do that. That's what you're doing. you're healing people through these songs that you're creating. I mean, like, one of your albums, right, is like 10 of the 11 tracks or songs that you wrote with other people in mind and part of, like, collecting their thoughts and really helping them. I mean, imagine what, I'm sure you know, but imagine what you did for those people by writing that song. That's like in itself, that is what you just said you've always wanted to do. So I hope that you don't discount any of that. Because just from someone on the outside, you've been doing that all along and you've been trying to live your purpose. And whether or not at one moment you were in this genre and then you went into this, that's that moment in time. That's the part of your journey. I don't think it's, I don't think there's fault in finding spaces that are fun to you at the time but are not a permanent space. I don't know. I think you're doing, you're living that. And so from someone on the outside, I see it and I feel it. So something's happening. So I just wanted to point that out there. I hope that you do have a sense of that though, with what you've done to this point. I'm totally soaking in what you're saying because it's great for me to hear that, yeah. Because I'm such. I'm such a perfectionist and I have such a, I am such in competition with myself. I wanna be better five years from now than I am now. And I just like, the bar keeps going. But what's better? Right? What is better? Let's define that. What is? Well, I mean, it's easy as an actor. I'm better today than I was two years ago. I'm better two years ago than I was five prior years ago. It's like, I mean, as far as that, I feel that every day. I mean like, my even work currently is literally better every week with this show. And that's the most important part, I think, for people to understand is that you have to feel that you are better. Who cares what George down the street says, like, oh, you know. Like, if you're feeling that, then you're living this purpose that you were hoping to live, and maybe those child wounds still haven't closed. Yeah. And you're letting some of them kind of dictate what I do the same thing. You know, like that kid in me that lost his mom when he was eight still sometimes sneaks in and makes the decisions for me. And I think it's all in protection. But, you know, I think I think you. I think it's so cool to watch your journey, you know, from the outside, seeing what you're doing. And I love that you're out of the space that we just talked about of sitting on your floor and letting it go. I feel like that was, do you, when you, do you sing that song now? I do. Can you sing that song now? I can, I can. It took me a long time. I didn't perform it. I performed it one time. I say I wrote the bulk of the song in that date. day, afternoon, night that I'm telling you about. And then I saved like the bridge. I didn't have a bridge, you know, which is like three lines or so. And so I just threw it over to the side. About two years later, I finished it. I was just leaving Millionaire Quartet, getting ready to move back to LA and I booked a little gig at Joe's Pub. That gig actually is on any streaming platform called Live at Joe's Pub. And that night was the first night that I just I had written the bridge at home that afternoon before the show the same day. Like, let's just try this out and see what happens. And so I sat there not completely even knowing what chords may come out of me or not. It was very impromptu. And I knew. I knew. It was raw. It was hard. People responded in a very earnest way and it was too much and I didn't sing that again live for I don't know how I mean, you were just you were sharing. It was like you talked about, like, taking off all these things and really like allowing yourself to love yourself. And that was probably. An instance of like, I'm in public and now I'm sharing some of the cracks here. After that, did you have an emotional like response to like, I'm glad I did that? Or I think that underneath, yes, but the primary feeling that I had was still one of shame. because I still felt, I still believed that people judged me as someone who used to be a drug user, right? I still was so worried about, whether you call that image management under the umbrella of image management or insecurities or whatever it was, I was just too plagued. Like I would dip my toe in and then I would be like, no, they think they're better than me. You know, it's pity. I don't want pity claps. But what I found out is it absolutely is not. And I was wrong to think that people responding was pitying me in any sense, because what I have found now singing that song for years is I don't cry singing that song now because of my pain being so close to me anymore. If I cry singing that song, It's because I am intuiting the audience is having a healing. And I cannot tell you, I sometimes hear when the part, close your eyes and breathe, and I stop. And I can't tell you how many times I hear someone go. in the audience and in that moment you can feel them really letting it go. Yeah, that's... Tell that to your kid self, you know, that wanted that to channel the healing through song. I mean, let's redefine what gospel is. And you did. I mean, it was like the title of one of your albums, wasn't it? Yeah, the gospel according to Levi. Yeah. And I feel like that's what you're doing. And that's the music I resonate. with the most and you know, you just mentioned Adele, like a lot of people like Adele because it triggers something. Yeah, right. It may not have that same experience. You may not. And let it go was perfect because you didn't. You talked what so many of us that grew up in the 80s and 90s were conditioned like by society to feel shame in whatever we were doing that was not quote unquote perfect. Right. And so right at some point. we have to go to this self acceptance or self awareness or something that's like, look, I'm, I am who I am. And this is, this is good enough. Right. And, you know, and you are sober from an addiction and that's just part of your story now. Right. That's just, yeah. It makes you who you are and probably makes you a better human because of it. Because I've found a great sense of pride in it now, Matt, because I realize that now that I'm 13 years sober, the work that it takes for those of us who are in recovery, we have cultivated beyond what general, I guess to use a Harry Potter word muggles would do is that it's like we've cultivated skills, life skills that like a lot of people. really needs a call to like, I'm just gonna put it straight to you. I feel like a badass being sober from crystal meth 13 years and I'm proud of it. And I wear it as a badge of honor. And because of it, I actually am better at living life on life's terms than a lot of just people who don't have those issues to press up against. And that makes me feel good. Yeah, and you should be and I think that I don't know, I think it's It's weird to say, but I think people that are just living this, this life of no ups and downs, and it's just kind of like, they're missing out, right? I feel even in my case, you know, having two major losses in my life, I feel like I'm a better person because I had to go through that. I think it's cool where you are now. And, you know, I knew a little bit of what was happening at the time. I didn't know it was as bad as it was. You've kind of created this human that's like fully formed now that is mostly confident in what he does. And maybe you need to maybe look in the mirror every once in a while and tell yourself that. But I think there's a lot to be proud of. I think you're right, actually. I appreciate that a lot. I do need to do that more often because I'm still so on that trajectory of what I want to accomplish. What do I want to say? What I want to this that I just live so far there that I never stopped to say, I don't really need that. I'm okay right here, right now where I am. I am, I'm okay. Yeah, you're in a good space. You know, and I think sometimes it's hard in your industry too, right? Because, I mean, you talked about it, getting signed to a label and then losing that deal. And then it's like, okay, well, am I quote unquote successful if this doesn't happen or if I don't go this direction? You know, and then, you know, winning the Tony, I'm sure that does, that plays mind tricks on. you as well, right? Like, oh, yeah. Because now people associate you as a Tony winner. So now, what pressure does that put on? Oh, or does it? No, speaking of the pressure, I came home after the Tonys. I enjoyed looking at it that night. The very next morning, I put it in the closet, and I didn't look at it for Easily a year, certainly the rest of the time I was in New York. Maybe I didn't look at it until I left in 2011 in March. Moved to L.A. I think probably the summer of 2011. I looked at it a year later. Yeah. And you find pride in it, I hope. I do now. It was very intimidating to me back then because I didn't want to go into work, into the Nederlander theater and go on stage and be reminded of this. projection of expectations that were, you know, just fantastical and, and exaggerated by people who are caught up in that world, you know, for those who are just eat, drink, live and breathe theater, and this is this is the, this is the arrival point and you've reached the apex of all that they could ever imagine for them. They had, they were projecting into that moment, all their desires, all of their fields and emotions and great, they're sending up rockets of desire for themselves and maybe it's gonna be great that they're gonna get that for themselves. But then they look up there and they have unrealistic expectations and ideas about what it is. And I just was, they just, I allowed that story to intimidate me so much that I just couldn't even look at it. Couldn't even look at it for a while and you don't know what to do I mean people change I think the thing that happens is like, okay So how do I how do I how do I take advantage of this moment? How do I capitalize on this opportunity? Where's my next job? Where's my next job? And I started getting jobs left and right and the frankly Matt every script I read I hate it. I didn't like it and I would say no to these things that most people think that upon that you should immediately get into another show and immediately get into another show and immediately get into the show and everyone basically pigeonholed me into hillbilly stuff. And then was giving me stuff that was just really like this New Yorker take on my culture Which never works in my opinion and it was just bad And so I just was okay with saying no and diving into the album imagine paradise Which as you said was crowdfunded and all the songs were written for some of the most generous backers Really looking at their lives took that whole route, but it took me a while It took me a while to really Be proud of it and own it and also realize it doesn't change reality. I was talking to my friend Octavia Spencer after her Emmy award win and we're like, you still have to get in line and wait and audition and you have to audition and it's yours to get or it's yours to not get and you're either going to be right or you're not. So it's like life doesn't change other than the fact that you'll always be able to get in the room and audition now for sure. That's great. I love the story of Sandra Bullock when she was nominated, when she won the Oscar for the Blind Side. She also won the Razzie that same year for All About Steve. And she went and she accepted the worst actress award the same year she picked up her best actress. You know, it's like, it's like those moments you need to realize that this is, this is performative at its highest. You know, like, yes, it's, yeah. I mean, yes, it's awarding. great work and it puts you in a special class. But like you said, there's still tomorrow, like we still gotta get up and brush our teeth and eat your cereal and move on with your day, right? It's not like you're not in some special, you know, there's not a lot of. The biggest thing is the people that change around you, actually, that to me was the hardest part because I honestly, you know, a friend of mine, I'll admit, Because you know, I've always been from writing my own stuff at 12 and touring to all the rejections for the major record labels and saying I'm going to do it myself and I've become this indie artist since 2005. And you know, the biggest thing I could even think of in my world, you wouldn't think, is a Grammy award, right? And so when it happened, I remember calling one of my best friends and he's like, what do you think about this? And mind you, I was just sleep deprived, stunned. didn't know what to say. I was like, well, I mean, it's not like it's a Grammy. It's like, you're an asshole. But that was just my point of reference. I didn't understand what it meant for me. But what I did understand later on is it meant a lot to a lot of other to everyone around me and people change. And but I also think that I didn't just come back home from LA as a Tony Award winner. I came home from LA as a sober person. I hadn't been home yet. And so just as people didn't know how to deal with me with that success, people changed the way they behaved. People didn't know how to deal with me not broken. And then you begin to realize a lot of relationships are sort of hinge upon the other person's ability to... fix you or blame you or just generally, this is what I found a lot. I had friends that had always just felt sort of superior to me and liked the fact that I had issues. And they would find a sense of purpose in caring for me here and there. But ultimately, there was something a little condescending about the fact that they could be up here, and I could be down here. But then all of a sudden I show up, I've had a win. I've had sobriety. I don't need them anymore to coddle me, pick me up at 3 a.m. after I've used and drank on. I don't, I don't, the dynamics different and friends didn't know what to do with me. Well, and then you found your, your new chosen family, I'm sure. True, true. Through the sobriety more so than the Tony win, but absolutely. Give me some connections. And I don't know. I feel like. feel like a Tony. This is stupid. This is the dumbest thing I'm going to say, but I feel like a Tony is like the hardest, the hardest one to win. So good for you. You got the hardest one out of the way. You know, I guess it's interesting that you say that. I never thought about it like that. I think it's because. I don't know. I don't know why I think that, actually. I can't I can't say why I do. Because certainly there are lots of people, one of your co-stars in Violet was she has like six Tonys, right? So it's possible to win a bunch, but I feel like, you know, that's probably one of the hardest ones. And I'm glad that you're proud of it now. Yeah, maybe what you're saying is this sort of a niche and you know, TV is broad film is broad. And for take all the people in TV and film and ask yourself how many of them could show up on a Broadway stage eight times a week and sustain a powerhouse performance. You're right. That whittles that crowd down. Yeah, because movies, what I mean, you do a couple of takes per scene. Sure, it's not the easiest, but it's not like you're putting on all of your emotions on the stage for two hours a night, eight times a week. Yeah. Now, there's a lot that goes on with it. All right, so I'm gonna wrap this up with the question that I like to ask people that, you know, it's just really a possible question. So we'll see how you answer it. But if you could talk to your self in that club that day when that kid came up to you with current knowledge, Levi, is there anything that you would say to that version of you? In that moment, I would say to him... Keep doing what you're doing. You'll be ready when you're ready. I like it. I think it's true. I think what's most interesting about that response, because I think a lot of people will listen to it and go, oh no, I would tell myself, stop, you know, whatever. You have to go through these moments, unfortunately or fortunately, to get to the place that you are in. And I don't think you would know that or have that response. if going back to what you said at the very beginning about self-love and like actually going through the process of strong self-love, I don't think you would have said, like if that's not who you were now, I don't think you would have said, just keep going. Time will work you through this and you'll get to where you need to be. Yeah, it's also in the spirit of I really believe, especially when it comes to addicts and alcoholics, that it's detrimental to break their fall. We are a very stubborn people and the more safety nets you throw us, the more we take advantage of it. It's just absolutely the most obvious. We all know this. There's no arguing this. Go to Al Anon and you'll hear centuries of people who will admit that that's true. So yeah, for me to go back to him and say, stop. is absolutely illogical. I would say, here's more. Like get to that bottom. Get to that bottom. If you have to find it quicker. Let's find it quicker. Yes. Yeah. I'm the same way though. Like, I wouldn't change the crappy things that have happened to me. Yeah. You know, and it's feels silly to say that. Like, I don't know, I feel like on paper, you're supposed to say, no, I would make everything perfect. But you know, That's how we learn. That's how we become the people we are. But it doesn't build anything. It doesn't build character. Right. Well, that's why I said like those people that just live this ecstatic life. I feel like we're better because of all the mess and they just have this, you know, but they don't know what they don't know. So, I appreciate you sharing this story. I know that some of the parts were hard to share, but I hope that after this recording, some of what I said about someone from the outside seeing you and all the things that you're doing and just living that healing piece that you kind of feel like you always need to do, you're doing it and you're doing it well and you're changing lives just by what you're doing. Every night on Hadestown, I'm sure there are little kids out there or grown kids out there watching you. and you're changing something about the trajectory of their life just by what you're doing on that stage. I trust it. So thank you. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate you being a part of the Life Shift podcast and sharing your journey with us. Hopefully we can see each other in person sometime soon. That'll happen. Sure will. I have no doubt. Yeah. All right, we will see you next week on the LifeShift Podcast. And thanks for joining us. I'm Matt Gilhooly and this is The Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that change lives forever. Please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. For more information about how you can support The Life Shift podcast, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com. See you next time.