Heidi Kirby Returns: A Candid Reflection on Life's Shifts

Matt Gilhooly00:00:00

Hello, my friends.I just wanted to drop some special bonus episodes into the feed that you probably have not heard unless you are a part or an early part of the Patreon for the Life Shift podcast. If you don't know, I do have a Patreon. It currently only has two tiers.One is a three dollar a month tier just to support what I'm doing, helps cover production costs. And then there's a five dollar tier which will get you episodes early and just the, I guess, warm fuzzies for help out with the Life Shift podcast.But I used to have other tiers where people were so generous and were offering additional money each month to get bonus episodes and possible winnings of T shirts and all sorts of things.And then I realized a couple months ago that I wasn't able to deliver what I wanted to, especially for those of you that were giving me the extra money.

Matt Gilhooly00:00:54

So right now we're just kind of.

Matt Gilhooly00:00:55

Doing the early episodes. You'll always get those.So if you want to support the Life Shift podcast, please jump over to patreon.com forward/thelifeshiftpod podcast and you can find that information there. But I come on here because I want to share a series of these bonus episodes that I did early on in the Patreon journey.There are like 20 plus episodes in which I had bonus recordings with previous guests. So I would go back and we would have a conversation about the experience of sharing their story on the Life Shift podcast. Catch up on anything.And I think these are super important and I know most of them did not see the light of day from outside of the Patreon. So I'm going to be dropping these episodes. Whatever you're listening to now is another episode. So I'm going to use the same intro for all of them.But here is one of the bonus episodes with a former guest from the Life Shift podcast. And if you like this, let me know because I'm thinking of bringing some of this back and talking to previous guests as I go into year four.So enjoy this bonus episode that was once released on the Patreon feed.

Matt Gilhooly00:02:05

I'm Matt Gilhooly and this is the Life Shift candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever. I am here with my former guest, Heidi. Hey. Heidi.

Heidi Kirby00:02:27

Hey.

Matt Gilhooly00:02:28

And you're also my former instructor.

Heidi Kirby00:02:30

Yes.

Matt Gilhooly00:02:32

And it's your fault that the podcast exists.

Heidi Kirby00:02:35

It is. It is my fault.

Matt Gilhooly00:02:36

Yay. We were just reminiscing about the class and we were talking a little bit about podcasting and how there are different rules for every podcast.And so, you know, it's interesting to have a class. I'm so thankful.Just before we get into your story, I'm so thankful that I opted to take the Art of Podcasting because it was, you know, it was an elective, and it scared me.

Heidi Kirby00:03:01

Yeah, I remember.

Matt Gilhooly00:03:02

And I was. But I was like. And then when we got into it, I was like, well, why would I do this for, like, fake. Why wouldn't I do this for real?Do you know if there were any other people? I have. How many students in your classes have, like, launched officially?

Heidi Kirby00:03:18

There have been a lot that said they were going to. And I always, like, comment on, like, their last discussion post, like, tell me where to find it when you do launch it.And you're the only person who actually has told me. So I don't know. Maybe they have, and they just, like, don't care if I know about it or not, you know, but.And some people have come into the class who already have a podcast, but they kind of just, like, did it themselves, and they want a little bit more, like, structure, and they want to, like, figure it out a little bit more and have, like, more consistent branding, so they'll do that. But, like, I'm pretty sure you're. Yeah. You're the biggest success story from the class.

Matt Gilhooly00:03:56

I don't know about success, but I feel like this is the best journey that I've been on, and if I get nothing else from the degree program, I'm so happy that I stumbled into it because I didn't know how much I needed this. It just felt like, I don't know.Before you get into a space like this, and especially with the life shift, it's, you know, obviously I'm dealing with very personal conversations with people, but you kind of look at podcasting from an outsider's perspective as, like, performative. Like, oh, that person just wants to be heard.

Heidi Kirby00:04:27

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly00:04:28

But then when you're in it, it's a completely different vibe, and you kind of just, like. It's something you just can't understand until you do it.

Heidi Kirby00:04:35

Yeah. Yeah, well. And I think. I think that also means that you've understood it.I do still have, like, a lot of students who think that they can just get away with, like, was sitting down with a friend and talking about nothing for 45 minutes. And no matter how much I'm like, listen, nobody wants to hear you talk about nothing unless you're a celebrity or an influencer. They just, you know.

Matt Gilhooly00:04:59

Exactly.

Heidi Kirby00:05:00

Hear it.

Matt Gilhooly00:05:00

Yeah. I tell people that all the time that want to start podcasts.I'm like, you know, the best thing I did was be forced to go through the process, to go through the pre launch process. You know, even still, like making considering target audience Personas in my head.It's funny because I look at what I did in, in our class and then I'll look at like the Apple statistics or like the analytics.

Heidi Kirby00:05:25

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly00:05:25

And it's. That's my Persona. Like, it's the person.And you know, and I think a lot of people don't go into any project with like, or a lot of people don't go into. It's too much work to do the prep. Let's just get started and then we'll figure it out as we go.But I think there was so much benefit in, in just kind of taking it piece by piece and then, you know, launching it. So thank you for that experience.Thank you for not shutting down this idea and you know, encouraging me to do it because it, it truly is one of the most fulfilling things that I've ever done. And so thank you.

Heidi Kirby00:06:01

Yeah, of course. I'm glad.

Matt Gilhooly00:06:03

And you were a part of it, so thank you for that as well. You were episode 19 and before we started recording at this moment in time, I have 86 episodes recorded. So there.A lot has happened with the Life Shift podcast since we recorded your episode in June. That was just like a year ago, June 2022. And then your episode came out in July of 2022.And so your episode was really about your journey to sobriety and kind of those last moments leading up to when you were just like, no more, I'm done. I know you've probably shared this story publicly with a lot of people.Was there any, like, through our conversation, was there, was there any feelings that you had after you kind of let it out in this here's my former students podcast that I'm about to put out there into the world.

Heidi Kirby00:06:53

So it's interesting because we recorded that at like a very. Well, we recorded it right before I told my now ex husband I wanted to get a divorce and it released right after.And shortly after that, you know, I, we both already had new partners and I remember my new partner went and listened to our episode and was like, I feel really awkward about you, like taught like thanking your husband and like, you know, this and that. And I'm like, yeah, but that was like 10, you know, that was like 10 years ago.And you can still be grateful to somebody for what they meant in Your life at that point. Point. And you know, like, I'm still grateful to him for helping me find sobriety, but it doesn't necessarily mean that, like, it's working today.Right. So it was at like a very pivotal time. And I think having the conversation made me also realize that, like, I did that, right.Like, I can get through anything.Divorce, job loss, you know, you know, you name whatever's happened since then and like, you know, if you can get through it without drinking, like, you can get through anything.

Matt Gilhooly00:08:11

Yeah. And yours was so interesting to me because I think a lot of people have this like, long circuitous route to finding that last drink.And yours felt very, like in your story, felt very abrupt, if. If that's a good word too.

Heidi Kirby00:08:27

Yeah, they call it a high bottom.

Matt Gilhooly00:08:30

I mean, good for you.

Heidi Kirby00:08:32

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I think I get uncomfortable with things a lot sooner than other people. Like with my divorce. Right. Like, I was like, this needs to end.It's not working for me. And my now ex husband was like, well, let's work it out. Let's figure, you know. And I was like, no, no, you don't understand.Like, if we try to keep at this and it doesn't work out, I'm going to resent you even more.And we're going to be like those, you know, those two parents, we had just gone to a friend's wedding where his parents wouldn't even speak to each other at the wedding. And so he couldn't even like walk down the aisle with both of them.Like, he kind of wanted to and like, you know, he couldn't even have them at the same table. And so I was like, I don't want to be those parents for our son.You know, we have to do end this now while things are still amicable and we're at that place. So I do have a history of like making big changes when I'm slightly uncomfortable as opposed to very uncomfortable.

Matt Gilhooly00:09:34

There's something to be said for that because you just said that you just passed the ten year mark, right?

Heidi Kirby00:09:39

Yeah, yeah. July 15th was ten years sober for me. Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly00:09:44

Congratulations. I remember. Yeah, we released it and this has been a very weird experience that I've had more than 10 times now in the episodes that I've released.When I send someone like, hey, this is going to be when your episode is coming out.They're always like, well, not always, but in these instances, like yours was right around your ninth anniversary of that super random someone, the one that came out this week was the day of the day after their birthday. You know, like, all these events have, like, I don't know, serendipity playing role in. In the release of these episodes. It's so weird.But congratulations on your 10 years of sober living.

Heidi Kirby00:10:26

Yes. Very exciting.

Matt Gilhooly00:10:28

Did that milestone hit you in any different way? Because I sometimes think in society, we think 10. Ooh, it's big.

Heidi Kirby00:10:34

It was, like, extremely uneventful. I was away for my sister's bachelorette party weekend, and the weekend was about her, so I didn't even remind anybody.I didn't even bring it up, other than a text from, like, my best friend since fourth grade who congratulated me on it. You know, I didn't put it out there. I didn't talk about it. So nobody even really. It kind of went.You know, the day went on quietly, and it was kind of nice to, like, reflect back on that and realize that, like, this is where I. Like, this is where I am now. I'm just a person who doesn't drink. Like, this isn't even a big deal.

Matt Gilhooly00:11:11

You know, it's not something that we need to, like, put another line in the sand so that everyone can see it. See, I made it another one.

Heidi Kirby00:11:18

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, years one and two, those were the big deals. Right.

Matt Gilhooly00:11:24

But even still, you know, someone like you that you said, you know, you had this high bottom of, you know, you were done and sure you liked it, but you still knew that it wasn't serving your life in the way that maybe you wanted it to.

Heidi Kirby00:11:41

Yeah, for sure.

Matt Gilhooly00:11:43

So I think that's. I think that's important. You know, with these.With these particular bonus episodes, I have, like, a grouping of questions, and the next one I don't think you're going to have an answer to, but I was going to ask, are there any updates about your life since we recorded and you've already mentioned a few.

Heidi Kirby00:12:01

Yeah. So other life. Life shifts. Right. Just since the episode released Divorce, I moved out of my house.And I actually just recently purchased a house on my own. Thank you. And the day that I got my keys, I found out I was being laid off. Tech job. I don't mean to laugh.

Matt Gilhooly00:12:24

This is terrible of me.

Heidi Kirby00:12:26

No, it's good, because if you can't laugh about it, then, like. But seriously. And so I had planned a trip to go visit my partner who lives in Australia. That's the other thing is I.I ended up with someone who lives in a. Not just another country, literally the farthest place you could, but, like, the furthest place on the planet that you could possibly live from Ohio.And so, like, I, you know, I went to meet him and his kids in February and that was great and wonderful. And I was planning to go back this summer with my kid and so that everybody could meet.And then I had to cancel the trip because I got laid off and I needed the money, obviously, so. But then he had a lot of personal stuff going on, like anything you can imagine as well. So it's just been, you know, one thing after another.And then like, you know, I get laid off from my job and a week later my son gives me strep throat. And on the way home from urgent care, my check engine light is coming on.So it's just, you know, it's just the piling of stuff right now that's a bit intense. But, you know, it's not my first time being laid off, so it'll be fine.

Matt Gilhooly00:13:33

I mean, I think so as well.And like you said that if you can get through this and you can get through all these events without drinking and without kind of resorting back to a long time ago version of you.

Heidi Kirby00:13:46

Yes, you'll be okay.

Matt Gilhooly00:13:48

And I, I always see, like, your posts on LinkedIn and you're very positive in that sense.Is that something that you've always kind of been more on the, the lighter, more positive, look at the bright side kind of feeling, or is that more of a LinkedIn thing?

Heidi Kirby00:14:03

I feel, I don't. It's definitely not a LinkedIn thing.I think it's more of like a me getting older thing because, you know, I was just talking with my, my life coach yesterday and she was like, I'm really proud of you. Like, you're doing really well. You're really optimistic and happy and like, and, you know, I was joking with my partner.I'm like, I don't know if maybe I'm on the verge of a nervous breakdown or I'm just old enough where I'm just largely unfazed by these things at this point because, like, it's just life, right? And, you know, I.When I first was laid off at the beginning of COVID it was like, devastating and it was, you know, the worst thing that had ever happened to me. But my podcast came out of that and would never have happened if I didn't get laid off.So, you know, I'm able to now see in hindsight that, like, being laid off doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, you're going to have to live in a van down by the river.

Matt Gilhooly00:15:05

It can mean which could be cool.

Heidi Kirby00:15:07

Which. Yeah, I mean, if that's your thing, if you're into the tiny houses, go for it. But, you know, like, it's. You know, it can. It can be.It can be a good thing. It can be, like, for me, it's.It's a forced period of rest because I was on the verge of burnout anyway, so I'm being forced to, like, take a step back and reflect and relax and things like that. But I will say there was, like, a period of two days there where I was, like, super, super depressed and was like, really, you know, of course. Right.Like, where I was like, how am I gonna pay for this new house? Like, I couldn't even stand to be in it.Like, I kept going back to my old apartment, and I wouldn't even set foot in the new house because I was just so angry and upset. And there was, like, a couple of flashes where I was like, how do I get rid of this feeling of desperation right now?And I was like, well, I could drink. That would definitely get rid of it. So that never goes away, right? Like, it's fleeting.Because then, like, you know, I laugh at it, and I'm like, really? That's. That's the answer?

Matt Gilhooly00:16:16

That's your solution?

Heidi Kirby00:16:17

No. You know, but it's like that. It's still that fleeting moment where it pops into your head and you go, well, I could drink, you know.

Matt Gilhooly00:16:25

Well, unfortunately, that's society's answer to. To a lot of problems, for sure. Yeah. And, you know, it. Unfortunately, it is what it is. I have a.A Patreon supporter and a really great friend who has been dying for me to follow up with you and see what's happening in your life, because they. Their family members or they had a family member that had an addiction to. To alcohol, and they kind of grew up around that.And I think maybe your story and understanding that you were a mother and you were so proud of the fact that, you know, he's never seen you in that way and that that was something to. That you celebrated in your own kind of journey is that you felt proud, right, that your. Your son hadn't seen you in the ways that maybe.I think you said maybe you're a nephew or a niece or someone had seen my nieces.

Heidi Kirby00:17:23

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Matt Gilhooly00:17:24

And so they were like, oh, you have to follow up and see. And see where she is. I want to see where this touch point is. And that's what I love about this additional kind of component of the life shift.Is it, like Gives me an excuse to come back and. And drop into someone's life.

Heidi Kirby00:17:39

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly00:17:39

And see what's happening. And I knew when we. When the episode came out that your life was already kind of changing, you know, in that sense. But I didn't know when we recorded.And. And that is what I've learned throughout a lot of these conversations. And I think I knew this. Well, I definitely knew this.That people don't just have one life shift. Of course, life is about pivots and whatnot. And, you know, as much as I do try to focus on. Okay, what was, like, the most significant pivot.You've had multiple sins. You're a different person than you were even a year ago. And I think that's the nice part about. About storytelling. Have you. Did you. Beside your.Your new partner, giving you the feedback of being uncomfortable listening to your story? Did you. Did you hear from anyone or any kind of feedback after your episode came out?

Heidi Kirby00:18:26

I think the general consensus. I don't think anyone personally close to me listened to it. I'm upset that I know of. Or they didn't tell me if they did. Right.Maybe they did, because I think I shared it on Instagram, so maybe they did. But I got a lot of, like, of the. You're so brave for sharing your story on the Internet for every God and everyone, basically. Right. And I just.I always think that. So sometimes I feel as though it's a backwards compliment in a way that, like, I'm doing it to seem brave when really that's not the case.Like, it's just, I. You know, I had a super proud mom moment the other day. I was driving in the car with my kiddo, and I forget what we were talking about.And he was like, I just want to help people, Mom. That's all I want to do. I just want to help people. And, like, it resonated with me so much. Like, I was like, he didn't see me.I'm, like, crying in the. While I'm driving. Right. And I'm like, me too, buddy. Me too. And, like, that's really just.It is like, I found that the best way to help people is to share your story and to be genuine and to be authentic and to not pretend that, like, our lives are these perfect things. And. And, you know, so, like, when people say, oh, that's so brave of you, it's just kind of like, I'm kind of like, I guess. But it's just the.It's also like, my coping mechanism when I am feeling imposter syndrome or stressed or overwhelmed. Like, helping other people helps me to feel better, you know, But I think.

Matt Gilhooly00:20:17

In a way, yeah, I mean, it helps you, essentially. I mean, I think that. And we were in a similar generation. I think that we grew up conditioned that we don't share those parts.Yeah, we don't share the mistakes. We don't share, you know, when things go wrong or a character flaw that someone might perceive as a flaw. It was just your experience.And, you know, luckily you got out of an experience that maybe could have gone really badly.

Heidi Kirby00:20:46

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly00:20:46

You know, so I agree with that. I think there is so much power in telling your story. And I, I mean, it is, I guess I agree with you.It is brave, but only because we were conditioned a certain way growing up.

Heidi Kirby00:21:03

For sure. Yeah.I think if you asked like the younger generation, like, if they think it's brave for people to share their story on the Internet, they'd be like, no, are you kidding me? I just shared my whole life on Tick Tock last week, you know.

Matt Gilhooly00:21:17

Exactly, exactly.And it's, you know, it's, it's we're doing this now or I'm doing this show now in hopes that one person out there hears an episode and is like, oh, I thought I was the only person and I'm not, or it's possible, or someone's on the other side waving and being like, look, it's fine over here. You can do the thing. Or, you know, you will survive this moment.It feels really dark and really scary and whatnot at this point, but we can get there, you know, Like, I think of myself in this instance of like when I was 8 and no one around me knew how to help a kid who just lost his mom and didn't want to talk about it. I felt like I was the only one. And I took on the responsibility of proving that I was going to be okay to everyone around me.So then, then became the performative pretending that I was, everything was fine.And so I think, you know, I'm kind of doing all these conversations and having these conversations out there for that little eight year old of me that was like, felt very alone. And so in your story, someone, you know, that might be like, do I really need to drink? Do I really need this in my life?And they hear like, yeah, you were able to do it in a quick shot because a lot of people might be afraid, like, what if I am going to go through withdrawals? Am I going to do this, that or the other? And then they hear your story. And they're like, oh, well, maybe it is possible.

Heidi Kirby00:22:43

Or they're like, oh, it's not that. My drinking's not that bad. Like, do I really need to quit?And it's like, but what do you have to lose, you know, other than, like, the societal, you know, pressures and. And just so crazy junk that comes along with drinking.

Matt Gilhooly00:23:00

When you listen to pod, I know you have a podcast that's all about learning and development, and.And you talk to other experts, and you have your solo episodes, which I assume you record the night before when you feel like you had to release an episode. What other kind of podcasts do you listen to?

Heidi Kirby00:23:20

I don't. Do you don't listen to podcasts?No, I really don't because I have so many student podcasts to listen to throughout my semester that I'm usually just listening to those projects. And it's also been like, Covid was the podcast killer for me because my commutes were where I listened to podcasts mostly.So now it'll be like, I'll catch a quick, like, 2x while I'm, like, cleaning or something.But typically, it's mostly just, like, people I know who have podcasts like yours or my friend Clea just started a podcast, and so I'm just, like, listening to, like, random episodes to try and.

Matt Gilhooly00:24:04

Yeah, be a good friend, help us with those numbers. You know, I understand that there's so many. I feel like now the more that I get in this space, the more people I meet, you know, because I. With.With another friend, we created this little, like, virtual community. We have little mixers every two weeks, and we all get on zoom and talk about our experiences and give each other, you know, ideas and.And whatnot as it relates. And so then my queue gets really large, and then I feel like I'm behind, and then I feel really pressured to listen. So maybe you're onto something.

Heidi Kirby00:24:37

Yeah, I just leave, like, the. The, like, new episode dot on the Google podcast. It's just on all of the.

Matt Gilhooly00:24:43

You're the only one that uses Google podcast.

Heidi Kirby00:24:45

I know I am.

Matt Gilhooly00:24:49

They don't even show it in search anymore.

Heidi Kirby00:24:51

I don't. Yeah, I know.

Matt Gilhooly00:24:52

Yeah, I only. I only use. I use something other than the regular ones.But I was wondering if, like, any kind of stories, particularly, do you gravitate to in maybe even in learning and development, are there certain types of stories that you prefer to hear or that you connect with more? Or is it more, like, instructional, more foundational?

Heidi Kirby00:25:13

I think this. I think the stories, period. Right. Like, the how is this person doing this thing?Like that, I guess in L and D would call them, like, use cases, right? Maybe of like, what is this person doing for their solution? Or like, what is.I did catch, like maybe 60 or 70% of the episode that you just dropped today because I saw the clip on LinkedIn and I was like, oh, Jenny, we could talk. We could have some serious conversations about right where I was about this time last year.

Matt Gilhooly00:25:46

Yeah. Well, I won't give you the end away, but it's a good ending. She has a good ending. So do I.

Heidi Kirby00:25:53

So do I.

Matt Gilhooly00:25:54

And it's similar to yours, actually. It's her new part. She just moved to Scotland, so there's that.

Heidi Kirby00:26:01

So it's even more. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I didn't get to that part. I know. Like, I got to the part where she was like, could have been a road in Scotland.I was like, this must be foreshadowing. But I'm not sure what yet. But yeah, no, that's. Yeah. I love the story. Like, I like you, maybe not as much.I like you, maybe not as much, maybe not as much as you are, but I, like you, am a story collector. And I love to just, like, you know, and I gravitate towards those as people too. Like, my partner, like, loves to collect people's stories.Like, he can't get enough of, like, talking to people and random strangers and like, reading, like, just stories about people's lives, you know. And like, we're both. I think that's something that, like, connects us, is that we're both like big story collectors, actors, you know?

Matt Gilhooly00:26:53

Well, and I think that's. I.I feel like people in our generation that are kind of like opening their eyes in the last five, 10 years of are like, oh, like, we need to start sharing those. Like I said before, we need to start sharing the real parts of us and just being. I hate the word authentic, but just being like, real people.Because for so long it was like, guys, I got into this college, guys, I have a 4.0, guys, I got this job. I. I got promoted, you know, and those were the only things we were sharing for so long.And now it's like, guys, I have a drinking problem, or, you know, whatever it may be. Yeah, and that's okay.

Heidi Kirby00:27:30

It's weird. Like, I see all this stuff on social media all the time about, like, breaking generational trauma and.But, like, honestly, I think that that's like, what a lot of us are trying to do is like, we see how emotionally unavailable the adults in our lives were when we were coming up and what that did to us. And like, we went through it like, you know, Columbine, 9, 11.You know, there's those lists of like, here's all the shit that millennials have lived through. Right. And like, why are we upset? And like, but why are we also not phased? And why are we also like, go ahead, do whatever you want.Like, nothing phases us anymore.

Matt Gilhooly00:28:16

But I think that's, that's having an impact.I mean, you can see it directly in the conversation or the example that you just gave of your son is that, you know, whatever you're putting into the world and that he's seeing and absorbing, he now wants to help others. So I mean, you're already breaking it.

Heidi Kirby00:28:35

So in touch with his emotions.

Matt Gilhooly00:28:37

Good.

Heidi Kirby00:28:38

And I wasn't allowed sharing how he feels and. Yeah, and like, you know, it's. He's got a lot of emotions, so it can be hard.But you know, I think it's important that we stop just trying to smush all of kids emotions back into them.

Matt Gilhooly00:28:56

Well, and I think he's experiencing a lot of things that a lot of people can understand. You know, his parents have now separated and now he's seeing that they can be two separate humans and they can and live different worlds and lives.And you're around to help him navigate that. And I think that's important.So I thank you for sharing your story and being quote, unquote, brave enough to share your story on your students podcast and you know, just coming and having a genuine conversation. It's super helpful if someone was like on the fence about they had a similar story to yours or they had something that they've never really told any.Anyone. Can you give any advice to someone that's kind of like itching but still a little bit afraid about telling a story?

Heidi Kirby00:29:42

I would, I would tell them this is very specific niche advice. But I just thought of something I watched last night. So I've been binge watching the Great Pottery Throwdown.There is an episode in there where this woman I'm not gonna be. It's in season five. Just watch. Watch the. Okay. Episode eight. Season five, Episode eight.There's a woman who said that she has had this story for so very long and she finally puts it into her pottery that she makes.And like everyone is blown away and like you just have to watch it to see like this is the catharsis that can happen when you finally let that shit go.So my advice would be to watch it, to get the sense and understanding, but also just to say, let that shit go, because the only person that you're doing damage to by holding onto it is you.

Matt Gilhooly00:30:48

No, I agree. I mean, it's.Because it's kind of the same thing with podcasts, you know, like, you hear other people going through an experience, and you can relate to that. So, like, watching this pottery experience, by the way, I saw that you wanted to try throwing pottery. It's not. It's not very easy, I've heard.

Heidi Kirby00:31:06

That's why I haven't done it yet.

Matt Gilhooly00:31:08

I did it in Colorado for a couple months, and I made some really thick pots, you know, but it's. It's. It's a good experience. It's something. But you will fail, most likely many times before you do it.And I think that's a good experience in itself to learn, you know, eventually you can get it. So thank you for that advice. Thank you for letting shit go. Thank you for letting shit go on the podcast and on the Patreon feed.And I just appreciate you and the fact that our paths crossed a little over a year ago.

Heidi Kirby00:31:39

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Matt Gilhooly00:31:40

Thank you. And those of you listening, you are on the Patreon tier. Thank you for supporting the show. And a new bonus episode will be out in about three weeks.So thanks again, and we'll see you later. Heidi.

Heidi Kirby00:31:58

Foreign.

Matt Gilhooly00:32:03

For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com.