From Misunderstood to Empowered: Breaking Free from ADHD Stigma and Labels | Heather Taylor

00:00
I felt like no one listened to what I was actually saying. And in some cases, kind of reminiscent of the story of like having indoor picnic and thinking everyone did. I also just thought the experiences in my head and the way that I viewed the world was exactly the same as everybody else. And the problem was, is that I lived and worked in a corporate environment. And so just people didn't get my creative brain and just trying to like make it through the day.

00:27
I'm excited to share this week's episode with you, where I had the pleasure of chatting with Heather Taylor. She's a talented writer, director, and podcaster with a unique perspective on life. During our conversation, we talked about the challenges that she's faced with ADHD and how that's affected her career. Heather's story is a great reminder of the importance of embracing neurodiversity and how we can all learn from each other's unique experiences. We discussed the impact of societal norms on individuals with different abilities and the pressure to conform.

00:57
One thing that stood out to me was Heather's journey to accepting her unique abilities and learning to ignore the stigmas and misconceptions surrounding ADHD. It was great to hear her insights on how to cope with internalized shame and the process of masking. Before we get into the episode, I want to thank my Patreon members for supporting this episode. If you want to join our community and get involved in the t-shirt giveaway, check out thelifeshiftpodcast.com forward slash join for more information on all the different tiers offered.

01:25
So I hope you enjoy listening to Heather's inspiring story as much as I did. It was an honor to have her as a guest on the Life Shift podcast. Here's our conversation. I'm Maciel Houli and this is the Life Shift. Candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

01:53
Hello, my friends. Welcome to the LifeShift Podcast. I am here with Heather Taylor. Hey, Heather. Hi. Thank you so much for having me on. Well, thank you for being a part of this. And recently I posted on social media how intimidating it is to be recording with another podcaster. I don't know if you feel the same way. I feel intimidated and I'm the guest. So. It's just like such a weird process. In fact, I was on a podcast in April.

02:23
of 2023 and I listened back and I sounded out of breath the entire time and I was like, was I running on a treadmill? What was happening here? So feel free to get comfortable. Yes, I'm going to just like, you know, shake it out a little. Just shake it out. Yeah. And so you're and you're a writer and you're a director and you're a podcaster and I'm assuming you use a lot of your own personal experiences in your writing to kind of do.

02:51
What I think I'm trying to do with the Life Shift podcast is to help people relate to other stories and feel less alone in those experiences and kind of build that community of humans, you know? And that we're a lot more alike than we are different. Yes, and I think too, as someone who creates things, like when I first started to realize I wanted to be a creator,

03:17
It was because I told a very deeply personal story of mine in combination with another person. I did a collective creation project and one of our tech people amazingly let me use their story and we created a story together and I would perform it every night. And I'd have people come up to me afterwards and say, I thought I was alone. I never knew anyone else experienced this. And to me, like I remember crying and being like, this is why I do this, but.

03:45
It took me still a few more years to realize it's the story that I needed to focus on and not necessarily the telling of it as the conduit. It's just more that it's getting those words on paper and allowing people to read and experience something or experience something through theater or film or television that made them feel that they were seen in a way that they've never seen before. And I think as we see film and television continue to grow and change.

04:15
and see more perspectives, it makes it really exciting because I feel like we're going to be able to reach more people and allow other people who never could experience something that someone experienced to create empathy for that as well. I agree. I think that media is getting a little bit more multifaceted and sharing different stories and not shying away as much. I have that same feeling of when you described

04:44
someone coming up to you after, was that like when one person came up to you, did you feel like that was a win? Like the whole thing was worth it because that one person came up to you and was like, thank you for sharing this story. I think at that point in time, I didn't even think anyone else experienced it. I still was like, even in my, it was that slow realization that as I'd share even my own personal stories and

05:14
and kind of people would be surprised. Like I didn't, like I talk about having indoor picnics. My mom has agoraphobia. And so she would make our life as joyful as possible. So we'd have indoor picnics. I thought everyone had indoor picnics. So I was like, oh, we could, you know, you know, when you had indoor picnics and someone said to me, what's that? And I realized that no one in the room that I was in telling stories had ever experienced the same thing I'd experienced. And so it just actually created for me, I just felt.

05:42
little more alone and like, do I share these stories? And then when someone came up to me and talked, cause I told a story about being a kid who was overweight and having people in my life take, limit my food because for me to become something I wasn't like, I wasn't the ideal, so therefore you must be changed.

06:09
And so by telling that story and having people come up to me and say, I've experienced that, then I'm like, oh, maybe there are more likenesses than differences. And so I think to me, that was the first time that I really realized in that whole experience that my experiences are very different than other people's, but also there are people in the world who have experienced the same thing I have as well. Yeah, I never thought of that in the sense of like,

06:36
do I jump into sharing this even though every time I share it so far, no one can relate to? You know, I think there's a piece of that, that there are probably threads within those stories that although not the same experience, kind of like what you're going to share today, is that there are threads in that, in the way we feel, the way we react, the way someone else reacts to us that we can relate to. And so maybe not having an indoor picnic, but maybe understanding.

07:06
the situation and relating to it. And so, I just thank you for what you're about to share, even though I really don't know, because as most of my listeners understand, I really only ask a simple short question. And I do that because I want the story to be shared with me for the first time, so that we can have an actual conversation about it. And I don't have pre-planned questions for you. So...

07:34
I'm excited about this and I think it would be wonderful if you could kind of tell us a little bit about yourself, but also after you do that, paint the picture of what your life was like leading up to this pivotal moment that we're gonna discuss today. I am a writer and director, as you said, and I work across different mediums, but that wasn't always the case. I had to work day jobs, A, to survive, and B, because I kept immigrating to different countries.

08:04
because when I had an opportunity to say yes, I'd always say yes. It's not always the right timing, but I would still do it, which will come into play, I think, why that happened a lot in a moment. But I had immigrated to England and gotten my citizenship, and then I had the opportunity to immigrate to America. So in America, I thought, I'm gonna be able to easily get a green card, it's gonna be really quick. It's not a quick process. Immigration takes a long time.

08:33
took me six years. And as I did that, I was trying to be a writer and a filmmaker on the side. And then in the days, I was working really taxing jobs. I was an editorial director for a publication, and then I moved into the space of advertising, as working in New York, in some of the biggest advertising agencies in the world, and working and struggling, working 11, 12 hour days.

09:02
seven days a week, no boundaries, no ability to do any of the things that I loved. And I got to the point where I thought, maybe I just am not good at it. And maybe that I'm just good at this thing that's making me extremely unhappy. And the whole time I was like, I was struggling and I got to a point where I was traveling and I'm like, I have to talk to someone, I have to talk to a therapist. But whenever I talk to them, and I would give my perspective,

09:32
I always felt like they didn't get what I was explaining or what I was trying to talk about. I'm a teary person, so I'm gonna tear up on this stuff. So I would try to explain my perspective. Like, you know, sometimes the world is too loud, or sometimes things get overwhelming and they're like, oh, you just have anxiety. Like, I don't have anxiety. I'm not anxious. I'm not an anxious person.

10:01
I'm like, I don't have anxiety. I know what anxiety is. I know what it presents because my mom has panic disorder and like, girl phobia. My sister has anxiety. Like I have other family members with anxiety. I know what anxiety is and I don't have it. But I always felt that I was put into a very specific box for my whole life. Anytime that I had trouble and I would go to see a therapist, they would say, this is how your family is. So that's how you are.

10:29
And I felt like no one listened to what I was actually saying. And in some cases, kind of reminiscent of the story of having indoor picnic and thinking everyone did. I also just thought the experiences in my head and the way that I viewed the world was exactly the same as everybody else. And the problem was is that I lived and worked in a corporate environment. And so just people didn't get my creative brain. And just trying to make it through the day. And I remember.

10:59
so many times in this kind of corporate world and I would switch jobs. I would be so terribly bored and I would try my best and I would be struggling and I'm like, well if I just switch jobs, things will get better. So I'd switch jobs and it'd be good for a while and then the same thing would happen. I'm like, this is boring and my brain isn't activated and I don't know how, I'm just dragging myself through the day, I'm trying my best.

11:26
but I don't understand, like, I'm super smart, I get it. Why can't I just, like, focus on this? And I remember being told, or from a friend, he's like, yeah, my friend said I shouldn't hire you because you never stick around. And so I'm like, well, I don't want to seem unreliable. I'm a reliable person, but why am I struggling so much? And I started to think, like, maybe there's something more going on. And I started to think about...

11:54
the idea of maybe something like ADHD, which I had heard about through other people. I didn't do deep dives because I was scared of putting something on myself. And I will now, like reflecting back, think I 100% had internalized ableism, this idea that I can't be smart and capable if I have a disability. Totally false. That's not true.

12:23
But in my mind, I'm like, well, it can't be it because I'm an intelligent person. I got straight A's, I did really good at school until I didn't do good at school. And I erased those parts. I just was like, but I'm smart and I do good at school and everything. And I remember having a osteopath that I went to that I loved and I talked to him about ADHD and he said, I've been diagnosed. It's life-changing. Like you should take, there's medication you can take. It can be really life-changing. It can change everything.

12:53
And then he did something that no doctor should do. And he brought me some of his medication and said, here, you should try it, which then terrified me. And I took it home and I threw it away. And I was like, I'm going to close that door. I don't have this. I just, I'm going to walk away from this thought. What time period was this, by the way? What year? This would have been now probably, so eight years ago. So.

13:23
Eight, yeah, eight, nine years ago. So, yeah, around that. 2015, okay. So I'd already been questioning, and then I got to a point where someone said, you probably do try this thing that was highly illegal to do. And I got scared and I was like, okay, I'm gonna shut that door, I'm done. But I kept struggling. And no matter what, and I went to therapy every week, and I remember, you know,

13:51
being late, all the things. And I kept trying and trying to, and I'm like, I don't know why I can't be on time. I don't understand, like, I put all these things in place to help myself. I would get criticism at work about, you know, I've had things like, you know, sometimes you interrupt and sometimes like, especially when I get excited about things or you don't show the work as like, I kind of think a lot about like, you don't, you just go from A to D.

14:21
And because you're working with sales people, you have to show them how you go from A to B or A to D because they won't get it. Which is what kept reinforcing the idea that, well, if I was in a room with creative people, they would totally get the way that I think. So I'd have to force myself into these boxes and I would ask for accommodations without understanding why I needed them. Like, can I sit in that? There's a corner desk. Can I sit in that corner desk?

14:51
I'm not distracted by people. And I was told, but you're extroverted, so this introverted person needs it more than you.

14:58
And it wasn't, it was for me, it was like, yeah, but people come to my desk and they bother me and it's too loud and too much. And I need to be in a corner. And I remember the light going out above me and being like so excited because bright lights really irritate me and I don't work as well. So, or I'd go, when I had to really concentrate, I'd go into one of the offices, like not offices, conference rooms that had dimmable lights and I would dim the lights as low as they could. And I'd listen to like chill music and I'd work in the semi-dark.

15:29
And people would come by like, do you need the lights on? And I was like, no, no, no, no, this is perfect. This is perfect. But not understanding that this is probably not usual for people in my work environment to do. But for me, it was the way that I could, it could exist in an okay way, but continuing to struggle, like being on the streets of New York, loud, busy, chaotic, wearing headphones with no music. So I could hear the environment, but not be overwhelmed by it.

15:59
And there's all these like things that were very clear. And it's not that this is like only happening as an adult. This is literally a disorder that happens when you're born with it. And so there's been all things throughout my life. But at that time, I didn't know that. I felt like I'm struggling now. I must be doing something wrong. I kept putting on myself, what am I doing wrong? How do I fix this? And then I finally probably would have been

16:28
Three years ago, I just was like, enough, I can't do this anymore. Right. It sounds exhausting. It's so exhausting. I'm so tired. It's interesting because you mentioned throughout your life, people have been kind of labeling you or putting you in certain boxes. You're an extrovert, whether they talk to you about that or not and understand or listen, but also...

16:57
there's the other side of you that's running away from a label that you could be. And so there's another battle that's happening as a human. And I think so many of us can relate to society, whoever in society telling us how we need to be and how we need to perform. And then us putting that responsibility on ourselves or I can't be this way because so-and-so that I don't even know over here says that someone that's labeled that is not this.

17:26
and I'm this, you know, and nothing's really fitting. So I can imagine that in addition to all the experiences that you were having and trying to accommodate for yourself, you also have this, like, internal battle of what a label is and whether or not a label really means anything, right? And I can see you running from one, but running towards one, and it sounds like that...

17:56
I think it's very relatable. I think we all... Yeah. Growing up in this same time period, kind of assumed a lot of things from society that maybe weren't true or serving us well. Well, I think too, I also kind of grew up in a family where, for good or bad, my mom was very much like, I don't want any of you to have any labels because I don't want you to have less opportunity.

18:24
And like we'd grown up in a town where we went from, when my parents got divorced, we went from middle-class to poverty. And so we got ostracized by our community. And so I understood labels very acutely. And I understood the power of labels and how they hurt you. And so I never talked about my mom, my mom struggles, that's private. Like everything that made us actually who we are.

18:53
or what we could be was private. So it was everything was kind of my little brother, we always grew up thinking that he probably was autistic, but my mom again didn't want labels on him. And she said she did take him to someone and they're like, it's anxiety again, because a parent with anxiety, they always assume a child has anxiety. Anxiety is part of, can be part of, like this kind of neurodevelopmental disorders, it can be.

19:20
Because of my diagnosis, my brother got to be diagnosed. He has ADHD as well, and he got to be medicated for the first time, and he said it's life-changing. Sorry. No, you're fine. I think it's interesting, going back to the point about labels, is that your mom... put that... I don't want to say it's pressure, but put that feeling that a label is, you know, one way or another. Do you feel because of that...

19:50
that much of your life, and it kind of sounds like it in the corporate world, that much of your life was a performative version of yourself to kind of play the game as well as you could so that no one would label you. Well, yeah, I mean, that's the hugest problem with something like ADHD and autism, a lot of things. It's the masking, especially in women. So I masked, oh, I remember someone said, you're such a chameleon, and...

20:19
I was like, that was such an interesting phrase. And I think about that a lot. I thought, actually, I was a chameleon my whole life. And even now it's like, what is the dress code? Who's gonna be there? What do I have to say? What's the script? Like, what's the thing that makes me just fit in? When I would, sometimes your brain wanders, you don't, not purposely, it just, it gets a stimulus and it chases it.

20:44
And so I would miss the starts of conversations all the time. And I would just go, oh, that's nice or whatever. I would pretend I heard everything. But it's all forms of masking. It's not saying, like, I'm having trouble right now. Or it's a lot of it's internal shame. So by not having that, by, yeah, in that masking and that, like, I don't want to be different because I feel different. I feel like I don't really understand the world.

21:11
I wish someone would explain it to me. I'm really still to this day, I'm like, can you just... How does this work? Am I doing it right? And... The answer is yes. You're being a human and you're living your life. Yeah, exactly. And I think there is this internalized shame that you carry for not being able to, like, function. In the square box, you're trying to put your round self in. Because that's not the right... I shouldn't be...

21:39
putting myself into that box. But that's what I kept doing is like, if I just wear the right clothes, if I go to a punk show, I wear different clothes and different makeup. I even changed my nose ring. Like I would do that. I would look different because I thought if I looked different, I'd feel different.

21:55
I mean, I would venture to say that a lot of people, whether there's a diagnosis attached to it or not, I think we were trained to fit in. Don't ruffle feathers. Don't, you know, and this is just a product of our parents and then a product of their parents. You know, it's just kind of this passing down. But, you know, so I wanna bring you back to where you were in your story, where it sounds like about three years ago.

22:24
you went to get some more information. And yeah, I'm going to take it. I realize I'll take it back to time. I don't even know it's like, oh, yeah, the dates passed. It was 2018. I got accepted into a program to do this. It's part it's called the Canadian Film Center. And it was the the prime time TV program. I finally was like, I got my green card. So I got my green card, which was an amazing day. And then I got into this program, which allowed me to leave my job.

22:54
go to this program. I didn't tell the job I was leaving. I asked them to, if this here, this is fine. It's enough years have gone by, but I asked to be made redundant so I could take severance. But I knew I was going somewhere because I was like, I need to figure this out. I'm not made of money. Like, so I did this program and I was suddenly around other creative people like me. And I thought, finally, I'm gonna fit in to this place. And I still didn't feel like I fit in.

23:24
I'm close with a lot of people in the program. It's not that I wasn't accepted and welcomed. It was just, I'm like, oh, I'm still struggling with certain things. I remember my showrunner very nicely gave me feedback. Heather, don't answer questions that other people ask me, even though you know the answer. And I realized I wasn't doing it purposely, it just would come out of my mouth. And I was like, oh, okay, sorry. And I'm like, oh no, I did something wrong again. And it wasn't something I did on purpose.

23:54
And then a couple other things or like it's the kind of interrupting or the like, because I was getting excited about things again, I'd still have to explain things, be very linear and very simple. Even when I started working in like other rooms, realizing that, oh, you don't, if I tell you like that this change makes all of these changes, you won't understand it because you don't see the giant web of information that I'm seeing in my brain right now.

24:23
And so as I started to realize that it wasn't the job that was doing this, it was there's something with me that I have to figure out. Then I started to realize, I think this is what's going on. I did all the research. I'm a lover of research. I've always have been. I was a kid who read encyclopedias. I still do. This is a real thing. And I love it. I love new things. I'm like a six-year-old. I love dinosaurs in space.

24:53
And science, that's it. So I did all the research and I looked at anything that showed me like here are the symptoms. And I like, it was all of them, it was everything. But I was like, oh, there's an answer. And so I went super prepared to talk to a therapist. I found an ADHD specialist. I found someone who was younger deliberately because I know that there is a stigma.

25:23
I know there's a stigma against later in life diagnosis. So I was being very mindful of who I spoke with. And it was absolutely brilliant because I was able to have an answer of sorts and to be able to talk to someone who, like who basically told me it's okay to be who I was. It always was okay, but I- It was always okay.

25:50
But for my whole life, I thought I wasn't okay being who I was. Well, and I think, you know, it sounds like that's what you needed. You needed... Because your whole life, everyone was telling you these things that you should feel and not do and be, and now you had someone that gave you the permission. Yeah. Should just be Heather. Yeah. And it's like, it's so interesting, because like we say the thing, I said the thing about my mom, like my mom was trying so desperately to protect us because...

26:19
She had seen what happened to her family members who came out with problems with mental illness. And so she's like protecting us. But in protecting us, I then just hid myself. And so that's the unpacking that happens. And I think that happened, thankfully, some people learn much earlier and have the, there's the own issues that come with that. I'm not saying it's, it's a perfect world, but being able to

26:48
understand the things that was going on in my life at that moment made me feel like, okay, I kind of understand something I have a path I can take, I have things I can work on and do. Like, I can, you can't fix it. It's like, it's just is, you just are, right? But at least I know. You don't need to fix it. Exactly. But there's always a day, how do I, because I always like my whole life, how do I fix this? How do I fix this? How do I feel better? How do I fix this?

27:17
And it really is like, no, how do I exist and how do I create better environments for me to be in? I don't have to change me. To be your best self. Exactly. Yeah, did when your therapist agreed or said yes, even though you were leading yourself up to that and you were feeling that this was probably the way, were those words impactful for you? Did it give you any kind of

27:46
sense of relief of any sort? I think it's interesting. I think because I had already, I came in thinking I'm gonna have to fight to get the answer that I- To get an agreement. To get agreement because I knew in my heart. And I had known for years and I just didn't want to admit it. But now I really like looked into it. I'm like, I 100%, this is me, 100%. This explains everything that everyone dismissed. This is it. These things that people were

28:16
calling failings in myself that felt like moral failings, that felt like I was told, someone broke up with me once and said, "'You're too intense, you're too much.'" I'm like, all those things were all related to how my brain works. But I had someone who said, "'You sound like all of the things you're saying "'makes it sound like you have ADHD. "'We are gonna do some tests.' "'But that's what I feel like, "'but I will not give a definitive answer "'until we do these tests.' "'And you said, go away and answer some of these questions "'that I want you to answer.'"

28:46
And so the official diagnosis that I got was CPTSD and ADHD. C is what I have or what I carry with me, I'll say. And so they interact with each other in very specific ways, but mostly like I was doing the tests and I had my husband answer the quiz as well. You do a rating scale. He answered exactly the same as I did. Even one case he's like, I'm sorry, it's a six. And I'm like, I know it's a six.

29:14
It's like totally fine. Because it's like a scale out of six. And he's like, it's a six. I said, yes, it's totally a six. ADHD is a combination. So it means I have hyperactivity, impulsivity, and inattentiveness. So I have all the flavors you can get with ADHD all packed in one person. So that's fine. And that's okay. That's okay. I think the thing that presents the most will be the hyperactivity and the impulsive.

29:42
Pulsivity is what people will notice the most. The medication, I take medication now, which has also been amazing. Because of my anxiety and my family, I was very scared to take a stimulant, so I take a non-stimulant medication. And it helps a lot. And it doesn't erase things. What it does is creates, it's like it takes the world down a notch. And it allows me to think for a second more. So like the...

30:11
medication I take actually really is helpful for impulsivity specifically, which is great because that's the interrupting the, but I have a thought in my head and I have to tell you before it goes, it's the like just making impulsive choices. A lot of it can, you know, range. But it's that thing of like, I'll just do that, which is probably also contributes to why I moved to many cities and many countries and did many, like there's that thing of like, I'm just gonna go and change. If this isn't working, I'm gonna go, which actually has.

30:40
been amazing, has led me down an amazing road. I can relate to the idea of, as much as we didn't need someone to tell us something, because we knew deep down, we still needed it. We needed like that outside validation that what we were thinking was okay. And I mean, for you, it makes sense because so much of your outside reaction from people were against kind of like,

31:10
what you felt was okay or what you were trying to do or how you were trying to accommodate for the things that you were experiencing. I said that I could, before we started recording that, that your story of getting this answer or confirmation from a therapist can be so relatable even if someone is not facing what you faced. In my own experience, listeners know my mom died when I was eight. And that...

31:40
That's the reason the life shift exists. But in that moment, my life had changed. And for decades after that, I didn't know how to grieve. No one had the tools. So in like similar to your case, I go to someone, someone just wants to fix it, right? They just want to, oh, just be happy. Life will be fine. And I'm like, well, I haven't unpacked all this stuff. And by the time I got in my 30s and I found the right therapist, which I'm sure you can agree with, you had some pretty dismissive, if we can call them that.

32:09
therapist. And I had one that was just like, after spilling my entire life to her, she was like, you realize that every decision that you've made up until this point was made with your eight-year-old mind of fear and protection. And so you're telling your story and you get this confirmation, even though you were leading up to it. I can imagine how much after that moment you went back and you're like,

32:39
Oh, when I did this, this totally makes sense. You know, like all these things started to unravel. Did you have that experience like that? That is, that is- Was it a good experience? Well, talking about grieving, it was, it was grieving. So that was to me the biggest shift. So getting the diagnosis was like, yes, okay, I have an answer. It was when I went through conversations with my therapist and I remember the one that really put things into focus.

33:10
was around food. Because as I kind of alluded earlier, the story of me having people restrict food for me and I started going to Weight Watchers when I was like 11 years old. I did Slim Fast at 12, so I get it. Yeah, because I wanted to again, fit in, be accepted, be the model that of everyone, like I have to be the best, the smartest, I have to look good, I have to do this, whatever. Like at the time, putting restrictions on what you could be.

33:39
I realize in a session we're talking and she's like, food is also used as stimulation. And I was like, oh my God.

33:54
Like that little kid was just trying to help her brain. Like that's it. And people were taking that from you. And like judging me for it. Now there's better ways. There's other ways, not better, other ways. Snacking can be fine too, but it's also access to food. We were very poor. We didn't have a lot of stuff. So it becomes what's cheap. And so I wasn't always, like my mom fed us very well. She did the best she could and she...

34:22
tried to make sure that we had as normal in quotes, the life as possible, but I would, I remember her saying, I'd get nice snacks and I couldn't keep them in the house. I'm like, well, we were just hungry. But really it was like, well, I was using it as a stimulation, way to stimulate myself. And then as I, when I went to Weight Watchers, I started to like do more exercise and things like that. And actually exercise is amazing for the brain and for dopamine. And so things like that I know are so helpful.

34:51
But at the time I was struggling and just trying to find whatever I could to help myself. And I didn't understand. And to me that was the shift of going back through my life and understanding like the guy who broke up with me because I was too intense or the moments that I had like difficulty at a job or being a kid. And I remember like I'd bite my nails again, stimulation. And when I would like, and just my whole life.

35:22
If you don't bite your nails, you'll get a fancy ring. If you don't bite your nails, blah, blah, blah, like all this stuff. And I would try so hard and then I would do it because I'd focus and I'd get it done. And as soon as like I got praise, I would just start doing it again because I needed that for stimulation at that time. Did that unpacking, did you find yourself giving yourself grace in those moments after that little bit of grief or were you?

35:50
upset or what was your emotion to that after you kind of started to process these little pieces in your life? Because I can see that it still affects you thinking about it. But I'm wondering if you're in a space in which that was out of your control, that was just you trying to find something and there's no blame to be had there. I think that the first thing was there was a lot of

36:20
because so much of my life and so many parts of me that I thought were bad were related to this very specific disorder, this very specific way that my brain was formed. And it's not something that, as much as you're like, oh, I can embrace this, I know who I am now. It was more like I had to grieve, I was mad. I was really angry.

36:49
Who were you mad at or what was it the circumstance? Where is it people? Was it yourself? I spent so many years being mad at myself. So I think it was always a shame that people introduced you early on. So I was, I was just kind of, I think it was like a general anger. Like no one did anything wrong. It's just that they didn't pay attention.

37:15
And that's why it happens a lot with women, because, or certain people, not just women, but often with women, because that idea of like, well, you're just, the idea of like, keep, and I'm also from the Midwest, so like the Midwest of Canada, we don't talk about anything, so like this is also part of it, culturally. Welcome to my podcast. Yeah, I know. It's like, keep it in, keep to yourself, that idea of presenting like that.

37:44
everything is perfect, that you are fine. I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. And I think I'm just mad that it was allowed to go on for so long and that no one could figure it out.

38:00
And I think that's why we have to be our best. We are our best advocates, but I'm not educated in a way that I'm gonna be like, I understand how, I'm not a psychologist. How long did it take me to figure this out? And I'm like, well, why didn't anyone else? And I think there's part of it in the hiding is that you don't, again, know what is different, that you're experiencing something different than other people.

38:25
that thing of like, I didn't know my childhood was different than other people's because I just thought everyone had the same childhood. So how would I even tell people like, well, time disappears for me, or I can hyper focus for 10 hours and I don't have any idea about like, I don't understand hunger cues. I don't understand, like there's all these things. Why would I ever tell a therapist that? Like why would I tell a therapist all these things that actually were related to my ADHD?

38:55
That's just my life, or I'm just a bad person because I can't pay attention enough to my friends when they're talking, or if I'm at a party, I listen to three conversations at once because I'm a jerk. I literally thought I'm a jerk because I can't focus on someone. Yeah, I mean, I wonder, not to diminish any of those feelings that you have, but I wonder if 80s, 90s, even 2000s, if there were enough people equipped

39:24
to listen properly, right? I think, I often think of my own experience going through the loss of a parent in late 80s, early 90s, I don't know that people were, they just thought kids would bounce back easily, right? Like kids don't have all these wide emotions. Meanwhile, I'm living my life out of fear that someone else is gonna abandon me because in my tiny little brain, my mom abandoned me. It wasn't her fault, but at the same time.

39:52
But I also look back and I'm like, I don't know if anyone would have been able to help me. Is there something, do you know now that you know that you're a deep dive researcher, do you know that if people were, like if ADHD was something that was widely researched and stuff in the time period when you were a child and going through all of this? I'd say that it's still, it's not, yes, I agree with you. I think that it just wasn't something that was.

40:21
would have been caught. It would have been very difficult to catch. Because I did really well, they call it twice exceptional. So ADHD and being I was extremely intelligent. So I would get straight A's like in high school. She's fine. I'm fine. I got She's fine. She's doing great. I graduated with an IB diploma with honors with distinction. That's all that people cared about in those time periods, by the way. No one would have thought that I volunteered and I was in like, million bands. I was doing a million things. I had

40:50
to jobs, like no one thought this person was struggling. You had all the gold stars. I had all the gold stars. And I think that society really just was looking at that. That was the determination of who was okay and who was not is like, were you successful? And like, here you are successful doing all the things, but internally you're like, I can't function in this world. When I went to college with the first year and I decided, ugh.

41:17
in my infinite wisdom, I'll take an 8 a.m. sociology class, like who should ever do that? Not, no. And then have a break until 2 p.m. when I had a drama class. I'm like, so I never went to 8 a.m. sociology even though I was immensely interested in it. I rather watched, I watched all the procedural television that my heart desired instead, which actually is gonna help me, helps me with my job now. But at the time, I had to drop out of a class in college because I couldn't.

41:46
read the material fast enough because how I functioned before and staying up all night or doing the material the day before did not serve me anymore. I didn't have a regular schedule anymore, which I actually, people with ADHD benefit immensely from having a regular schedule. It's also the hardest thing for us to keep. But when you're forced to do it by having a job or by being in a school that's structured.

42:14
College isn't structured like that. It's like have classes when you want do what you want and to go from structure to no structure was very difficult and But I never went to someone and said hey, I'm having lots of challenges and said I hit it I dropped another class before it would be on my records So no one could see that I was failing a class this person who left left high school with honors with distinction was

42:43
in the next year failing. But that was an indicator. But instead it was shame. And so... Well, and you were taught to cover it. Yes. Your whole life. Yes, exactly. And that was the way that you succeed. I can understand that. I think... Yeah, I could see a lot of kids doing that. I think a lot of people like, well, if I drop out, then I didn't fail. Yeah. Right, you know? Exactly. And like, it's nobody will know. You know, I just didn't have time for it. I just, you know, and we come up with these excuses so that...

43:12
whatever we were conditioned to think was successful or living the best life, that's what we did. I hope I didn't offend you by saying that I think the time period has a lot to do with your experience, my experience, and just the capabilities. I'm so hopeful. We started out this conversation about how media is changing and more perspectives are being shared. I'm hopeful that

43:42
a Heather going through what you went through now, you know, like a young Heather going through it now. I'm hopeful that they would have a different experience because more people are, they're talking more. Yes. People like you, you're sharing your story and all the hard parts led you to this point. And who knows, someone could hear this and go, oh, maybe that's me, you know, and get the help.

44:10
that might be available now that wasn't quite available to you at the time. The one thing I really wish would change in general is that most of the studies we have for a lot of things are based on a very specific subset of people, specifically white males. That doesn't work. Sorry. No, it's not your fault. You didn't do it, but like... I take the blame. I'll take the shame. Don't take the blame or shame.

44:36
most of the studies, let's say, like I just had a conversation with a wonderful woman yesterday for our podcast, Brains, for a woman about she's autistic and said, Osbergers, who we don't really refer to any part of autism as being related to Osbergers because he was not a, I think it wasn't a great person. He didn't hang around with great people in, we'll say in a very certain time period

45:06
I sent essentially I think a prep school with white males to talk about autism. So there's a very different presentation. There's also societal expectations of different groups of people. It's also a very Western approach. Different cultures have different ways of being. So this whole idea of like autism and not making eye contact in some cultures you don't make eye contact. So that's not an indicator. And so there's, there's this, we just need to have that because I think even now today,

45:34
Like one of my sisters went to go get diagnosed with ADHD and they dismissed her and said that if you had it, you would have been diagnosed by now. But it's not true because again, masking access to healthcare, think about we were in a lower socioeconomic background, so living and growing up in poverty, you don't necessarily go to the doctor that much. You go to the doctor when you're sick, you don't go for like regular care or...

46:04
And really sick. Yeah, really sick. And that's not a hit on anyone. It's just that's the reality, right? And you're definitely not, if we're being conditioned to be like, we're going to just be the norm, you're not going to necessarily get that help. And my sister is different from me. She would have a different flavor of ADHD. She's the most introverted person that I know, but definitely still falls within the spectrum of inattentiveness. So I think as we try to get to the point

46:33
As more research can be done, what I am hopeful for is that we start to look at different subsets of people so that our research can be more complete and that we are gonna be able to help people and educate the people that they see in a way that helps them be seen. Will a doctor in Northern Saskatchewan where I grew up know about ADHD in the way that someone else might know? Maybe not, because maybe they haven't seen that presentation at all. So there is gonna be differences.

47:04
And what I'm hopeful for too is the more access information there is online, the more that people are sharing their stories, the more that people will be able to hopefully find themselves and feel less alone. What has changed in your life since you got that confirmation and agreement? Like, what's changed in the way that you run your life and the way that you do things?

47:31
So, as a classic overachiever, I would often push my brain to the brink. And now I understand that it needs space and it's okay to take space and time that my therapist continues to say, I want you to have space in your day that's not related to anything to do with work. Because of my hyperactivity, it likes to always be doing something, but it's okay to take rest.

47:58
and to be mindful of what your body needs. I have, this is, I have it's something called a time timer for those who can see it basically as a visualization of time. And so it helps when you have something, I have basically time blindness, I can't understand the passing of time. And so it's, it helps you kind of understand time and it helps you take breaks. And so just trying to be mindful that, yes, I can push myself, but,

48:28
is that optimal and again creating better environments and continuing to learn. I think it's overwhelming when you first get a diagnosis but as you continue to move through the world to continue to like enlighten and educate yourself because you are the again the best advocate the best you are the only person that can set your life as you want it. I think also just becoming more open about

48:55
what ADHD is and that it is a disability, it affects every aspect of my life. And even though it may not seem debilitating, I'm doing like a lot of heavy lifting that you don't get to see. And it took me a while to realize that. And I remember asking my therapist, am I allowed to say that I'm disabled? And she said, yes, you've been part of the party your whole life, you just didn't realize it. So I was like, oh, okay.

49:22
And I still sometimes I'm like, I don't know when to disclose. I'm, you know, I worry about what people will think. But trying to, as one gentleman, I was part of something called RespectAbility. It's a lab for entertainment professionals with disabilities. And one thing that he said to, this one gentleman said in our group, he's like, I always say right away I'm a disabled creator because then I know exactly who I wanna work with. And I was like, oh yeah. So it's just that balance of, you know,

49:50
and you don't have to disclose unless you want to. And you don't have to give all the information. But I think the biggest thing that has changed that I am continuing to give myself that grace is I asked my husband after he's diagnosed, I said, you know, what has changed? Like, what have you seen that's changed? And he's like, well, you've known that you've had this for a long time. Like I've known, like we've been together for a while. He's like, you've known for a long time.

50:17
He's like, but what the difference is, is that you hate yourself less.

50:23
Yeah, I was gonna ask if you feel... Do you feel more comfortable being you in your skin? Or are you getting there? I'm getting there. I don't think it's like... Something that can change overnight, for sure. I'm more open about... I think trying to be more open about my needs has been like the biggest challenge that I'm trying to like...

50:48
trying to like advocate for myself, and then figure out, well, what is it that I actually need? What is it that I've just been doing with? And by having people in your life who understand even small things, I've said, like my sister, my sister, I do the podcast with Sarah, we were doing a photo shoot and she said, oh, the music, is the music okay? Or do you want me to change it or do I turn it off? Like, is it distracting for you? And I remember like, no one had ever asked me that.

51:17
And so by being open about it, it allows other people to also help create good environments for me to be in. Or like, my other sister took me shopping. Or it's IKEA. I love IKEA, but only to a certain extent. I don't even have to buy anything. I just... I think that's true of anyone at this point. Yeah. It's pretty overwhelming. But she can see that I start getting grumpy. She's like, oh, you're getting overwhelmed. Do you want to go now? And I was like, oh, yeah, actually, 100% I do. Thanks. Like, I was just putting up with it. She's like, no, we can go now. Let's go get a tea.

51:47
And we like just left. And it's nice to have that. Yeah, it's important. I know that this is your choice to share your story and your choice to disclose anything. But the more people that can feel comfortable saying, like, this is me, this is who I am, and these are all the interesting facets of me. These are the things that have brought me to this point in my life. I think the less...

52:16
people growing up now will have that shame that you internalized for so long that you held onto and probably are still trying to shed some of that because it'll probably be a lifetime thing, but I hope that you get to this point where, you know, you can see it as you talk about the different phases of your life, you can see how you treat yourself.

52:44
and just in this, I don't know you beyond this conversation. And you can see that. And I think your story is so important for so many people because like, this is us. Like we have all, everyone has things, right? We, and you know, and we might have a disease that people find is more acceptable. Right, yes. But at the same time, it's just what's in our body. It's like, you know, like this is just me. And I hope...

53:13
that you get to a place where you're just so comfortable. Just, you know, it is, this is it. And it sounds like you're doing that and what you do with your work and creating stories that tell examples of what you feel and what you see and what you think in the world that may be different on how I do. And by me seeing something or reading something, I get a new perspective. I get something.

53:40
that enhances my life because I know someone that is different than me and has a different experience than me. And that's cool. Like, that's what we need to celebrate. Yes. And we all bring something to the table that's different. We have someone said to me, a writer had said, Ben Watkins, he said, we all have so many languages that we can speak. And the languages are like the background I lived, my disability.

54:09
you know, living through living in middle America, like all those things are languages. And I think we are made up of so much intersectionality. And it changes our approach. And yes, some people go, Oh, your ex is a superpower. And for me, I never think of it as such as just like, No, we all have superpowers, I guess, if you want to say that. But we all just bring something different to the table. And if we can have more people who are different at the table, the more we can learn from each other.

54:39
And I think the more we can create, I don't think, I think something that will be universally good for all. And I think a lot of that is just, people need to be a little bit more open. Cause I bet you, at the tables, there were always a lot of different experiences, but people were performing to whatever we thought we were supposed to, whatever box we were filling at that moment. And so the more people like you share stories like this,

55:07
around each other. I always say that I want this show to feel like you're eavesdropping on people at a coffee shop, like having just like a real conversation. Like the more that we can stop pretending that we're something else, I think the better off the, like you say, universally, we will be. I like to kind of end these conversations with a question. And I'm wondering if you, Heather, now, knowing what you know about your life and how you've lived it.

55:36
Is there anything that you could or anything you would want to say to the little version of Heather that, you know, may be reaching for a snack or something for that stimulus or, you know, like something where that shame has been introduced to you? Is there anything that you could say to her or do with her? I think it's it's like it's OK to be who you are.

55:59
There's no shame in existing exactly how you are.

56:06
Honestly, I think if a lot of us as kids that have been introduced to this shame were just given permission to be, yeah. I think things would be a little different. You know, and so I so appreciate you coming on this and sharing this deeply personal experience. I know we went back and forth on some of the different moments in your life, but honestly, there are gonna be so many people that can relate to this feeling of...

56:35
once you understand or once you have this outward confirmation of something that you've been thinking about your whole life, what you can do with it and what you can move forward with and hopefully release that shame. So thank you for just taking the time to talk to me today. No, you're welcome. And I'd say I just encourage everyone to be curious. And if you think that there is something that's different or that there's something that feels like it's holding you back in some capacity, just lean into it and you'll find...

57:04
your way through.

57:07
I agree, I couldn't have said it better. I would love for people to connect with you. So what's the best way to be a part of your world? So you can find me in my personal work fashion, I guess I'll call it. I'm on all the socials as Heather A. Taylor. I also do a podcast with my sister called Brains. It's about the different facets of our brains and how film and television portray them.

57:35
We really, we bring people in with lived experiences to talk about their experience and how they would love to see film and television change to be more representative about what they're facing. So please go and check it out. We'd love anyone to please follow us, subscribe, all those lovely things, but also and let us know what you wanna hear about because we just continually wanna talk about the things that we all are facing in some capacity and make the world a little bit better with it, I hope.

58:06
I think you're doing that. And we'll share the links to all of that in the show notes so people can connect with you. I highly encourage that. And thanks again for being a part of this. Like Heather said, if you enjoy the LifeShift or you enjoy Brains, please take a second, give us a little rating, give us a little review, be nice about it, helpful, those kinds of things. But thank you for taking a listen to the LifeShift podcast and we'll be back next week with a brand new episode.

58:45
For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com