From Jail to Joy: Journey from Fast Living to Redemption | Jonathan Greene

00:00
I got in trouble in Pennsylvania. And while I was in court, I gave him a false name. I gave him all that stuff. I didn't have a driver's license on me. They ran my fingerprints. I'm thinking, you know, oh no, this is a whole other state. I'll be fine. And while I was sitting in the courtroom waiting for my arraignment, I was sitting actually behind the door waiting for these officers to come to court.

00:30
I saw them and they looked real happy and they were high fiving one another. And I said, and as I see them come in, intuition is kicking in. So I am actually sitting behind the door so they can't see me. So they went into the courtroom and that's when I took off. Yeah. Make a long story short. I made it all the way back to California. My guest this week is Jonathan Greene. He's known professionally as Devon and Greene because he's a writer, a small business owner, a father.

01:00
and a husband. But his journey to this point was anything but straightforward. His story actually takes us from the gripping confines of a prison cell to the liberating freedom of self-redemption. In this episode, Jonathan opens up about his past, a time when he was caught in the whirlwind of fast money and even faster living. It was a period that ultimately led him to serve time in a Pennsylvania state penitentiary. His story is a stark reminder of how easy it is

01:26
to really veer off course when surrounded by the wrong influences. But Jonathan's story is not one of despair, but rather one of redemption and transformation. It's a story of a man who, at his lowest point, who looked into his daughter's eyes and vowed to change, to shift his life's direction for her. Jonathan's journey is proof that it's never too late to change your path and start anew. He also opens up about the challenges of reintegrating into society.

01:53
He talks about the struggle to find employment and the invaluable second chance he received. His resilience, perseverance, and determination to create a better life for himself and his family will certainly inspire you. Before we get started, I'd like to thank my Patreon supporters, and if you're interested in directly supporting the Life Shift Podcast, head to patreon.com/theLifeShiftPodcast, and you can find out all the information there. And without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to Jonathan Greene.

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I'm Matt Gilhooly, and this is the Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

02:40
Hello, my friends. Welcome to the LifeShift Podcast. I am here with Jonathan. Hello, Jonathan. Hello, Matt. How are you doing today, sir? You know, I'm good. And for those of you listening, we are trying something brand new today and we're testing out an iPad recording and you're on the road. And so I appreciate you pulling over and taking some time to have this conversation. Well, man, it's a pleasure to be on your show. I'm trying to do my best out here, trying to be safe.

03:08
and I found a location that had some great internet speed. So that's where I am. Here we are. And you know, just so everyone knows, he's not actually driving right now. He's parked and we're doing this in a safe way. And we were talking a little bit before recording about how the Life Shift podcast for people that haven't listened before and just a little backstory for you. This show came out of a school assignment, which is kind of funny to think about, but really it stems from

03:38
When I was eight, my mom died in a motorcycle accident. And from one day to the next, my life trajectory was completely different because my dad lived a thousand miles away. My mom was a primary parent. All the things in life were going to be different. And so I always wondered, do other people have like this singular moment where everything changed? And so when we were communicating back and forth,

04:06
you kind of identified this moment in your life that made you feel different or made you do things differently. And so I'm so glad that you're here to talk about it. But before you kind of divulge the secrets of that, maybe you can tell us a little bit about who you are at this moment and something that give us a little context without giving away too much. Well, my name is Jonathan Green.

04:31
I am a writer known as Devon and Green. I am about to come out with my second book called Paladin, Briscoe de Valls, A Savior of the House and the Floor. And I am also a small business owner. I own a small trucking company, me and my wife, and I am still driving. And I bet there's a lot of time for you to think about what you wanna write and put together these thoughts and whatnot. So is that where you do a lot of your thinking?

04:59
My habits are I write every night. Oh. I have to write every night. It's just, you gotta keep in that, keep in that mind frame. Yeah, that's awesome. What type of books are these that you write? Fiction. Fiction. That's hard. I don't know how you do it. Yeah. All right, so- You know what? You put your mind to something, you could do anything. Fair, fair. I think writing about real life sometimes feels like fiction as well. So I bet we could figure that out. And I would imagine that

05:29
a lot of the things that you think about come from real world experiences that you can kind of enhance or make them a little bit more fiction-like. That's where your ideas come from. Your ideas come from mostly real world experiences. Real world experiences. And you have quite the real world experience, I would say. And I'm so grateful that you're going to talk about it here on the podcast. So I like, and so do the listeners, like to hear kind of like the lead up.

05:56
to this pivotal moment. So I'm wondering if you could kind of paint the picture of what your life was like before this major shift that you feel changed who you are. Well, let me tell you, in the late 80s and early 90s, I was getting in and out of trouble. Drugs were pervasive in my part of the world, in California, in Pasadena, Los Angeles, Compton, and I was all over the place and I was making money.

06:26
And I got, you know, when you're young and you get money fast, you know, you spend money fast and you're doing a lot of things you shouldn't be doing. And it turns out I got in trouble in Pennsylvania. And while I was in court, I gave him a false name. I gave him all that stuff. You know, I didn't have a driver's license on me. So I, you know.

06:55
They ran my fingerprints. I'm thinking, you know, oh no, this is a whole nother state. I'll be fine. And while I was sitting in the courtroom waiting for my arraignment, I was sitting actually behind the door waiting for these officers to come to court. And I saw them and they looked real happy and they were high fiving one another. And as I see them come in, my heart's starting to...

07:24
fall, I mean, I'm getting a getting a stragg, you know, intuition is kicking in. So I am actually sitting behind the door so they can't see me. So they went into the courtroom. And that's when I took off. Oh, no. Yeah, make a long story short, I made it all the way back to California. Wow. What door were you sitting behind? They couldn't see you? What kind of door were you sitting behind?

07:50
Oh, you know, I was at the courthouse and it was a big old door and they really couldn't see me. Oh, she were like, I'm out of here. Yeah, I made it all the way to California. It was great. Me and my fiance at the time were talking. And my daughter had just been born. We had a long conversation. I said, you know what? I got to turn myself in. We called. Made some arrangements, you know, turn myself in and talk to an attorney.

08:20
Everything was great. You know, I turned myself in and I went to LA County jail and I'm in there for nine days. They had 10 days to come get me. And you're like, they're not coming. Yeah, the more, but actually the morning of the 10th day, they called me, I said, oh man, so I had to go and went to Pennsylvania and faced the music. Well, I mean, good on you for.

08:49
facing the music, I think. There's, I think a lot of people that get caught up in that world, at some point you almost feel invincible. Did you have any of those moments where you're just like, oh yeah, yeah, like, I've gotten away with this for so long and everything is working out in my favor, or quote unquote favor in a good way. You kind of feel like, whatever, I can do whatever I want. And case in point, you left the Pennsylvania.

09:19
courthouse and drove all the way back to California. And what was that drive like? Were you just like... Whoa, no, I got on a bus. Oh, wow. I got on a bus, yes. Did you feel like a fugitive or did you feel like you were just going home? Ah, ah, ah, ah. You know what, yeah, yeah. You know, I asked that out of curiosity because I think, you know, I remember being a teenager and it just felt like...

09:44
The only way I was going to get in trouble is if my dad found out, you know, like it was like this this feeling of like I can do anything in public so long as my dad doesn't find out. I never did anything quite like that. So very curious as to to kind of what your mind was thinking at that time, because teenagers are a little weird. When you grow up where I grew up, you got to think, you know, I go now. Don't get me wrong. I grew up in a nice area.

10:12
I didn't grow up in the ghetto. I didn't, well, I didn't grow up around a whole lot of criminal element. But what I did see was the aspirational side of drug dealers that were not near me, but there was one in particular who lived down the street from me. This guy used to have, he had a Porsche club and they used to have parties.

10:42
And I'm talking about a hundred, maybe 150 Porsches parked all up and down this guy's street. And it used to blow my mind. And when I was young, I was like, what does this guy do? And it turns out, you know, he was doing the wrong thing. But you know, a lot of these guys were my childhood heroes. I mean, these guys were making money hand over foot. They were living the lifestyle. Some of them were driving Rolls Royces.

11:11
And you know, when you see this, me like, how did he do this? Well, and you said that was like late 80s, early 90s. And so if you go to try to find a quote unquote real job, you're making $4 an hour, $3 an hour, something like that. And I was working at Taco Bell. Right, and you weren't bringing in that much, right? Yeah, yes, you're right. Yeah, because I remember my first job in the mid 90s was like $4 maybe an hour, something like that. And so

11:40
I can imagine how easy that could be. Why not go into that world? What happened when you faced the music? I got maybe two... What was my sentence? I was sentenced to, I think, three years. Oh, wow. Something like that. And I think I did 18 months in. Maybe I got, I can't remember what the...

12:08
what the actual sentence was. I think I did 18 months. And then I got out, paroled to California, and I did, you know, I had to do the rest on parole. So you had to do 18 months in another state away from your fiance? Yes, in Pennsylvania. In the snow, shoveling snow, and doing all that stuff, yes, it was in Pennsylvania. And, you know, I had to pay the, I did the crime, I had to do the tie. That's just the way it was.

12:36
What was that experience like for you? And the reason I ask, I just spoke with someone actually on the day that we're recording this, the episode that came out was a gentleman who was sentenced for 50 years in a state penitentiary at 17 years old. And he had to serve 17 years of that and got out and now works in justice reform. And so, but he talks about the experience inside prison.

13:01
and how he approached it. So I'm curious before I tell you how he approached it, I'm wondering what that experience, the 18 months of doing your time was like. Let me back up a little bit. Years, the first time I ever got in trouble, I went to a California state penitentiary on what is called a 90 day observation. Because I wasn't really a bad guy, they thought, you know, maybe, you know, this and that and the other.

13:31
So they give you 90 days, they want you to see what prison life is like. And then if you're, you know, if you seem like you're a good guy, they'll, you know, put you on parole or so on and so on. Make a long story short, I was in California at Chino. Chino State Penitentiary. Now Chino is a center where they send you to all over the state of California out to the prison you're going to. So it's an intake center.

14:01
So I'm in Chino and I am in, I'm about to give you a real life story, man. I'm ready for it. So I'm in Chino. You know, you go through the lines, do all the stuff, you gotta get butt naked and you know, they gotta check you for drugs and so forth and so on. So I'm at a sale waiting to go to the ER the next day or so, after dinner, and there's a kid.

14:26
Maybe, I don't know if he was, he was in a radius of me where I can basically hear him talking. So he was either up stairs from me to the right or to the left of me. I can't remember right now where exactly he was, but I do remember what happened. And the kid starts, get off me, get off me, screaming and screaming. And whoever was his roommate raped this kid.

14:52
And I can, you can hear the screaming, you can hear him hollering, crying, yelling. And it probably took the police, the security there, 15, 20 minutes to get there. And I felt so bad for this kid. You know, it was like, wow. But the real reason I felt so bad was because, you know, they should have been there two, three minutes, they should have been there. Yeah.

15:22
Maybe the kid had a terrible attitude, I don't know. That's not an excuse. To make a long story short, they didn't care. They treated him the way they wanted to and he paid the price. And that was my first day in the penitentiary and that left a lasting impression on me. Ha ha ha ha. Yes, it did. So with those 90 days, it's almost like they see if you can come back out, if you're okay, we don't have to keep you any longer.

15:52
It almost feels like you could also, did you feel like you could also like play along and you could get through this and then go back to your normal life? Well, actually that is pretty much what I did. I did, you know, see, I never, I was always a talker. So I never really worried about anything like that. Anything happening to me like that. I could pretty much talk my way out of whatever I need to talk my way out of. But.

16:20
It was an experience and I got through it and after the 90 days, I ended up doing about six months the first time. And I got out and I had some guys I met in the air and you know, we were supposed to do all this and that. And I tell you, the first few months after I got out of jail, I lost a lot of money. Because I was dealing with some guys who were, you know, you deal with people, you...

16:47
You think one thing and they're complete dope heads. They're living a whole different life than I thought they were living. And then you kind of got yourself in a little bit more trouble. Was your experience- Yeah, later on. Later on in life. How many years between these experiences? Probably five or so, something like that, yeah. I'm just curious what that experience is like because the gentleman that I talked to,

17:17
he was in prison and he was like, you know, I was 17. Yes, I made a mistake. Yes, I committed a crime, but I'm being punished every day for 17 years, up to 50 years. And he took that experience and really like chose to get his education and better himself and came out. And now he's working in justice reform across the country, changing, changing things around that he experienced, you know? And so I'm always curious of like what that experience is like, because he's like,

17:45
Not many other people were doing what I was doing. They were kind of angry and. Yes, he was. What is this called? Everybody has a way they deal with doing what you do when you're inside. And I've read the second time I was in, I read the Bible from cover to cover. I read the Koran. I probably read. 3030 books or so. I read a lot of icebergs, them books, you know, you read. I chose to read.

18:16
You know, you can go to the library, they can bring a library of books, whatever. I chose to read to better my mind, spirit, body, soul, and every one of them. I chose to better myself. Was there something inside when you were in Pennsylvania that made you think, OK, when I get out, I'm done? Like, was there was there a moment that that was like, no more of this? Well, that that is the moment I told you about my daughter.

18:46
She was my girlfriend at the time. We hadn't gotten married. She bought my daughter. And my daughter was the cutest thing on the planet. And she looked at me with those, now she's looking, they came to visit me at the visiting doll, but you have, you don't have visits where you can come sit at a table. They didn't have that. You were behind bars.

19:14
I'm at a table on a phone talking to him. They're on the other side. My daughter looked at me and that that and it was I was done. I knew that that day I wasn't coming back. I was I was I was finished with this life. When she looked at how old was she? She was one. Just over one, maybe one and. Yeah, I'd say around one.

19:42
Yeah, but she talked real early. She talked real early. When you were looking at her, what was going through your mind? I was I never wanted my daughter to see me like this again. Never. I wonder if part of you thought, OK, well, she's she's young enough. Hopefully she won't remember this or remember me this way. Yeah. And then you can create that life outside. How much longer was it until you were able to like hug her, hug her again and be with her like?

20:10
Permanently. Oh, she probably came midway through my sentence. And then when I got out, you know, the rest was history. I've, hey, you know, I had a son. I got married. Me and my wife got married. And then we had a son as well. And at first I couldn't get a job at McDonald's. If you believe that, McDonald's gonna hire me. I believe it. But luckily I got a job for a company called Here I'll Almost Beverage. And it...

20:40
somebody I knew who was actually my wife now, she called me and she said, "'Jonathan, look, are you still looking for work?' I said, "'Yeah.'" She said, "'Look, these people are hiring right now and they don't have that thing on the- The checkbox. The box where you're next problem.'" None of that. I said, "'What?' She said, "'Yeah,' and I told them about you.'"

21:05
I said, okay. And she said, can he call you now? I said, yeah, he can call me. His name was Marty. Marty called me, we talked. And he said, can you take a drug just? I said, I can take a drug just whenever you want me to. Can you take one tomorrow? Sure. So the rest was history, man. And once I got that job, everything else was looking up. Well, it also sounds like it's another.

21:31
pivotal moment in your life and someone giving you a shot, someone giving you a chance. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Because I've also talked to another woman, she got a five year sentence from having one, a possession of one pill on her. Oh wow. And when she got out, same situation, it was like the whole world was against her because of that one pill, you know, she had to check the box and then she was immediately discounted. And so in your experience, this, your now wife reached out.

22:01
and gave you a connection to change your life. Because you could have gone on, had you missed that call, had you done any of those pieces, how would your life go out that way? So there's these pivotal moments so close to each other of you just kind of getting someone looking at you as a human being and saying, hey, this is some help. You're right, you're absolutely right. And when you...

22:30
I had a job lined up at the post office. When I came home, I had a job. My sister-in-law at the time, my wife's at the time, her sister-in-law worked at the post office. She had the job for me lined up at the post office. That's how I got paroled to California instead of being paroled to Pennsylvania. So I had to have all this lined up. So I go in for the job and he tells me, Jonathan, I'm sorry, I can't hire you. I said, what?

22:59
You know, it was the strangest thing to me because he already knew about my history and so forth and so on. But all of a sudden, now you can't hire me. This is probably still happening nowadays in the sense that there is not enough reform in some way where people can are allowed to come out, have redemption, have.

23:22
like or an easier road to redemption, I guess. You shouldn't have to fight so hard to be a human when you come out and get an apartment or get a job or all these other pieces. And fortunately you were able to do this. What was so, what was like the biggest difference in who Jonathan was the day before he was released and when you started working at that job? Be quite honest, I think I was a little more, a little bit humbled from a lot of that experience. And I was more, it, it, it,

23:52
made me a bit more driven. Okay. So when I got that job at Haralambos Beverage, I worked. And I mean, I would go to work at, I would be there at six, seven in the morning and I wouldn't go home sometimes till 12, one o'clock at night. Because I was doing, remember Snapple? When Snapple came out? I was merchandising Snapple all over LA and I was building displays. And I was filling shelves, sofa and so on.

24:22
And Snapple was gangbusters right then. And hey, I like money. So I'm doing everything I can do. You know, they, hey Jonathan, can you stop by here? You know, we'll pay you. Sure. And that's the strange thing because I ran into a guy named Steve McQueen and Steve worked for a company called St. Ides Malt Liquor. McKenzie River was the name of the company.

24:47
And Steve kept on telling me, man. He started telling me once I ran into him a few times, he said, man, I'm gonna hire you. I said, yeah, okay, whatever you're talking about. And make a long story short, maybe a few months later, I get a call from Marty and Marty says, listen, Jonathan, Steve wants to hire you. I said, well, what do you mean? He says, you don't understand. They're expanding. Steve is gonna be a, I can't remember what Steve's.

25:14
title was, but they wanted to hire me as a regional under Steve. I said, well, what would my duties be? He said, you, your, your duties would be Southern California, Arizona, and Nevada, New Mexico. You would be dealing with the distributors under Steve and your, your thing is placement for St. Isable liquor growing the brand. They're going to pay you a lot of money. I said, what do you mean? What are you talking about? He started naming these some figures and then he started naming the allowances they give you. And then he told me.

25:43
A lot of these guys over here who's been salesmen for a long time, they would love this job. They're going to be kind of jealous of you. I'm just warning you now." I said, okay. I could deal with that. So anyway, he hung up and Steve, well, yes, Steve called me and man, Steve said, John, this that the other and he gave me the whole package and I said, okay, I think we can do this. And man, that was...

26:13
one of the best moves I ever did in my life. Oh man, they gave me a car allowance, they gave me, for Diem, they gave me a credit card, all that stuff. Oh, we got a ball. Was it interesting to you as a kid who was kind of seeing all these people doing things that were illegal to make all that money? Was it interesting to you to finally be in a place where you were making all of that money and getting all these perks and actually like doing something legitimate in that way? Well, well.

26:42
Kind of, see I have seen both sides. I was raised and my dad was a writer and he was raised, you know, I was raised, I knew a lot of Hollywood people growing up. So I saw that side of it. My uncles, you know, everybody was your uncle back then. And I had Uncle Saul David, he was a producer of a few movies back in the day and he did Logan's Run. Remember that movie, that was him.

27:11
And, you know, I so I grew up, I went on the set of King Kong. They're the one that was the original, not the original, but the second one when they did. And that was actually a robot. And he had six. He had four arms. And I actually had a picture as a kid, me sitting in his in his pall. And, you know, it was it was great. I had a great childhood. I see I saw a lot of stuff. I had a.

27:41
blast. So I saw money on both sides of it. I just saw the money coming quicker, illegal. With this new job and all these perks, did it feel like you earned this or you was there like some new feeling to that? I feel like no, it felt like I paid my dues. Okay. It felt like I had paid my dues. Yeah, I had to go through the I had to go through the the through the trials and tribulations to get here. And I felt like I'd earned

28:09
earned this spot where I am. Because I was working, a lot of these guys would go home, they're nine to five and they're out of there and they're going home. I wasn't trying to do that. And you probably felt like you had to prove a lot more. Oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely. Because you're starting at a lower spot, right? I think people like, you weren't literally starting there, but I think society puts you at a disadvantage, I guess, if you will. And you had to work twice as hard to get that role. But then you get that reward of,

28:38
you know, that hard work that you put into it. I think there's something to be said that kind of fuels people to go farther with that. Yes. Does that fuel you to keep going? Or was this contentment here? Definitely. Definitely. I was you get to a point, you know, you my life has been like a roller coaster, and I could have gave given up a lot of time. But, you know, you got you got to push through. You got to push through. You got to have a focus. You got to realize I'm not I'm not ready to give up.

29:07
Well, I mean, I guess seeing seeing a child of your own and seeing like, oh, how she sees me right now is really not kind of how I want her to grow up seeing me. Right. And which was different in the previous times when you didn't have a daughter. Right. You just it was like you came out and you're like, meh, you know, I can continue down this road. And it was just until like you saw that. You're right.

29:33
It's interesting how our lives can shift in something like that seems like so small, if you will, like a small moment and like, like all of a sudden you're like, oh, your non rose color glasses come off. Yes, I understand how your life can change. Basically the life shift. I mean, mine is mine is obvious, right? Like my mom died. So like, there's nothing I could do about that. It is a big shift when you're a kid, but there are obviously we have more than one.

30:01
pivotal moment in our lives. And I like to center the conversation around one that we feel kind of change your life. And there's like these two in this small period of time in your life that are just like so inspiring because I think for a lot of people because of the way society is set up, wouldn't take the route that you took, you know, when you get out there. Because it's, everything's against you and you have to fight and you have to stay positive and you have to move through things that are unfair, if you will.

30:30
And so good on you. You also get people from your past trying to pull you back. And that's something you gotta understand. You'll have guys that knew you from the streets and knew what you were doing. And man, look, man, I have this and that and the other. And they're pulling, they're calling. Nah, man, I'm good. I'm not trying to go back to that life. Did you find it, do any of them try to like sabotage or anything your successes? Have you seen any of that?

31:00
They didn't try to sabotage, but a lot of people, you know, you find some people who are upset with you, you know, because they have, they wanna make money and they know you used to make money and that now, you know, when you're not willing to do what you used to do, they're like, man, come on, man. I got this stuff, I gotta get rid of it, man, help me. No, man, I'm good. How did you come into being a business owner and a writer and all these things after this? I mean, I'm...

31:27
How did that evolve? How did your life evolve from there? Because now prison's behind you or jail is behind you. How do you move forward in that? Well, you know, you keep on.

31:40
You keep on a path, man. And I did my work for the beer business for years. And then when the beer business, they sold the company, I went and started flipping houses. I got into real estate. And oh, that was great, great time. That was great for a few years there in California. And then in 2007, 2008, when the bottom fell out of real estate. Yeah, you don't want to be in real estate then.

32:10
Yeah, yeah, I lost everything. I lost everything. Now you gotta think, I had houses, I had boats. I bought my second boat, I had cars. I had all that stuff and I lost it all. And, cause I was leveraged. I wasn't cash rich, I was leveraged. Everything was through, you know, loan here, loan there, so forth and so on. And then I had done some stuff and off my mom out.

32:40
And I'd always been a giver. And people ask you for money and you know, I'm a sucker at times. I try to be no man, but there's been a lot of times I've given people a lot of money. And at that time, it all came back to biting me in the butt. You know, I lost it all. And I went to Pennsylvania, I mean, went to New Orleans.

33:08
And I was doing adjusting for a state farm in New Orleans. And I did that for a while until there was one of those messages came by, you know, Mr. Green, we are concerned about you. You're something about being ex-felon and so forth and so on. And you're not supposed to be an ex-felon with State Farm. And I told the guys that when I did the thing, I said, yeah, I was an ex-felon. But every day, definitely the actual company I was working for wasn't

33:38
you know, everybody was looking for adjusters and I knew all the construction part of it. So it was easy for me. I ended up leaving State Farm and started, I was doing houses, I was rehabbing houses out there for people, you know, putting them back together after Katrina. And you know, I got too many people still owe me money to this day from out there, man. Yeah. And you don't get paid, you like, you know, and you don't make your money till the end of the thing is done.

34:06
And when you get to the end and they don't have the money and you're like, well, where's, you know, so finally I said, I wanna, I gotta make a change. And I liked trucks. I've always been a driver. I went to training in Hammond, Louisiana. And then I went to work in the truck field in January of roughly 2013. I got in with a company called Snyder.

34:36
I drove for them for about a year and a half. I left them, went to oil in Corpus Christi, Texas. I did that. That was great. Now, that made me some money. That got me out of debt. I was paying child support and all that stuff, and that got me out of debt. Then in November 2015, I was gonna work for Slider in California because me and my current wife were getting together at the time, and a lady from Slider called me and said,

35:06
in your own truck, what would we need to do to put you in your own truck? I said, well, what are you talking about? Because Snyder had a program for Snyder drivers that they would give you a truck. Now, the payments were eight hundred fifty six dollars a week. But they'll give you a truck. They'll lease you a truck. And if you wanted, basically, you know, they had a program. And so we talked, we talked, we talked. And that's what I did. I leased that truck for three years.

35:34
Then I wanted to lease it back from them, but they went up on the price. So we went through Wells Fargo, did that route. And then right around Katrina, I mean, right around, when COVID hit, we paid off everything. Paid off my wife's car, paid off truck, and the rest is history. Then I had to make a long story short, I had to get another truck because I blew that engine in the first truck. So now I have a 2020.

36:03
Your life is, like you said, like a roller coaster. There's so many things that you've done that a lot of people would never even get the experience to. And I think there's some silver linings in some of these moments of the things that you learned and the experiences. There's a lot of humbling moments that you've talked about. How do you, where do you get that energy or the fortitude or the strength to keep going, to keep pushing through, to be, try new things and.

36:32
try to be successful in something new. Where does that come from? I don't know. I would say this. It's in, there's, everybody has a nature about them. Might be in my nature, might be innate within me. I don't know, but might be instilled in me when I was younger for my parents. I don't know, but I've never seen, my mom was a trailblazer. I mean, my mom, she was, you know, she's a woman and she had to deal with.

37:01
all the problems in society is being a woman and not getting her fair share in money and compensation and so forth and so on. And when she started at JPM in Pasadena, California, part of NASA, when she started there, man, she was the audit coordinator. She was the whole department. It was her. And by the time she left, there was probably 40 people there.

37:29
Yeah, so it was probably instilled in you and you probably saw these things in your family and the people around you. I feel like relating to your story, this is sad, but I probably would have given up so many of the times of the things that you experienced because it's like, at what point do I just keep pushing but you're dealt all these hands that were not ideal.

37:56
But maybe in a sense they were because they taught you the things that you needed for the next part of your journey. Do you ever think about that? Oh, yeah, definitely. Definitely. Because I knew I knew, you know, like you said, there's pivotal parts, pivotal things that happen in your life that that make you change. And there were several times I had to make a change, even with money wise. My my wife's an accountant. And before.

38:25
We got together, I read the Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey, because I knew I had to change. I knew I had to change with money. That was one of my doubts. I could always make money, but I would spend most of it. You're very good at spending it. Yes, exactly. And giving it away. So I had to change. I had to change. I have a cousin who can, every dime he's ever made, he still has. So I had to start talking to people, associating myself with people.

38:54
like that, you gotta learn and you gotta listen and paying attention. It's weird to think about an experience in which like that last time that you went to jail in Pennsylvania was like something that served you really well long-term in the way that it changed you. It changed the trajectory of your life, dare I say, in almost a positive way because you were going down a road that probably wouldn't have ended.

39:22
very positively maybe? You're right. So turning yourself in, facing the music, seeing your daughter, someone giving you a chance or giving you a call on that first job. All of these things led you to this version of you, which now I can see why you're a fiction writer and how you could probably use some of these experiences. How much of your books have any of your own experiences in them?

39:52
really, you know, I read a lot of books. I've read, yeah, I've read like Sidney Sheldon and you know, back in the day, a lot of books and I'm a movie buff. Man, I love movies. Yeah, so, so my books really don't have my experiences in them that they have my imagination can run. So I try to, I try to let it run. And every day, I'll write down a few little ideas.

40:22
And then at night, I'll start writing. And then sometimes I'll write four pages and sometimes I'll write a paragraph. But it always takes me, you know, on average, for me to get one page of text, it does take me four pages to write. Because I don't know why, it's just the way I write. What does writing do for you? Oh man, it's a...

40:50
It's the challenge of writing. It's the challenge of writing that does something for me, man. I love.

41:00
I write, first off, I write what I like. Once I did that and wrote my first book, my wife, who is my, she's my harshest critic, and she's also my biggest fan. And once she read my first book and she's, she said, oh, that's really good. What? You know, what? And she said, oh, that's really good. And so that validation right there is all I need. Because if she likes it, I know then,

41:30
some other people will like it. I write what I like first and foremost. And then after that, you know, the public likes it great, but you know, I'm gonna write it any way it goes. I just, I ask that because a lot of people use writing as a tool to process things or to get into a state or a zone or something along those lines. I mean, my own personal experience, like it took me about eight years after my mom died for me to like,

42:01
crack a little bit. And I cracked when I had to write something about her passing. And it was that it was a it was an experience in which I'm very thankful for. It was a very cathartic moment. And ever since then, I've always tried to like when I need to process something, I just write. I don't write with a purpose. I just write. So it's a little different than your process, I guess. Sounds like you have kind of a purpose and a goal in mind. Mine just like just

42:30
dump it all out, but it's very cathartic. When you finish a book, when you finish it and you're finally putting a pen to, and you're really done with it, that feeling of accomplishment, there's nothing better than me, nothing better. It's just something that, when I wrote my first book, I just wanted to finish it and finish it to my best, to do my best.

42:57
in creating something out of nothing. And you did it. And I guess I live by curiosity through my writing too because both my characters are men. So, you know, but yes, I enjoy the challenge of putting it all together. People enjoy my writing. You know, if somebody reason they enjoy it, that makes me feel better. I mean, let's face it, we all do. But you know, if that, at least I wrote it, I accomplished something.

43:27
and I move on to the next thing. Do you ever think back of like the 15, 16, 17 year old version of yourself and what he was imagining of his life or his future? Did you and would this align? Do you think you're where do you think you fall? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think I think it would align. But but the funny thing is, I was talking. Me and my wife were having a conversation the other day. And, you know, I've known her since we were kids.

43:56
and we were together years ago and we broke up, we both got married to different people. We both realized if we had been together all this time, I would be, we work well together, let me put it that way. I would be in a different financial bracket, let's put it that way. I would be much better off in life by now. Money-wise? Yes, money-wise, totally different. It would be a...

44:25
because we just click like that. But you might have a different tapestry underneath as far as your character and the things that developed you. You're right. And then also to be quite, since we're talking about, I have a total of seven kids. And I have, me and her have a son together. So together we have eight, because she had a son from her marriage. So.

44:53
I have a total of seven kids. I had four of them. I had my first wife, we had two kids. My second fiance, we had four kids. And you know, I wanted, some of these kids would not be here if we would have been together. So yeah, you look at it from different directions. But you know, make a long story short, we would have been, if it was just me and her from the start, it would have been a lot different situation.

45:22
But I think a lot of people could say that about anything. If I took a left on this road, if I took a, you know, if my mom hadn't gone on that trip, you know, I feel like I would not be here talking to you. And so sometimes we look back at these moments and we have to kind of like almost respect them in a weird way, you know, as hard as they were. Do you have moments where you look back at your time and the time paying for your crime, if you will? Do you look at those with any kind of respect at this point?

45:53
I don't regret anything I've ever done because it has gotten me to this point in life. And you're this version of you because of it. Yes, I don't have any regrets. I don't have any regrets. Now, could things have gone differently? Sure, but as far as regrets go, no, I'm good. I'm good, I did what I did and hey, I had to pay the piper and I am better for it now. If you could go back to Jonathan that was just about to see his daughter.

46:24
when your ex-wife was bringing her to visit. Is there anything you would say to him, knowing that your life was about to, or your mind and the things that you were gonna think about and strive for was gonna change a few minutes later? Actually, no. I would sit there and if I can go back, I'll sit there and just look at him. Just smile and just maybe tell him to pay attention. Be interesting to watch that. Oh man, because I knew that change. I knew that was a moment in my life

46:53
that my life changed. So no, I think we all, if we can go back and change so forth and so on. Yeah, you know, like I was talking about my wife, we would be in a different situation. Hell, back in the, when I was in high school, back before I schooled, actually, I was supposed to go to USC and play baseball. I had a scholarship offer before I went to high school. And I, I blew that. The game the coach came to, I had two home runs in that game.

47:24
And, you know, me being this, I was kind of, I guess you would call it a, oh shoot, what's the best word for that?

47:35
Let's just say I was a mess. I was a bit hard-headed at times You were a you were a teenager. Yeah, exactly Is that the word? Yeah, we can say that yeah. Yeah, I was rebellious. I was a bit rebellious man and and What I did was, you know, I got the high school and let's face it, you know and baseball in the high school There was the girls weren't coming to the base baseball games that were going to the football and basketball game. So I

48:04
Started playing basketball. And just the honest guy's true. Yeah, I mean, it sounds like all the things, all the routes that you took, all the left turns when maybe other people would have taken a right, they've kind of all worked themselves out to bring you to where you are now and to bring you to this writer version, business owner, all the experiences that you had because of those moments, because of not going to that college or playing basketball instead or whatever it may be.

48:34
you know, they brought you here. And then we get to have this conversation and realize that there is hope and...

48:44
redemption, not redemption, I don't think that's the word I want, but hope and I don't know. Well, let's go with redemption and the fact that someone that could be in a circumstance in which when you left prison, there were check boxes that you had to check that excluded you from so many things, yet you've accomplished so much from then. Yeah, yeah. And there's just hope. You can look at it as I'm lucky. You can look at it as I mean. I mean.

49:13
there's some circumstances that happen that just worked out. And sometimes you gotta take a chance, and I took a chance, and it worked out for me. And I'm the better forward. But I could have easily, something could have happened that easily took me down another path. But I was fortunate to have some people who cared about me. That circumstance worked out. I had a lot of circumstances that overall turned out to be positive in my life.

49:44
And despite a lot of experiences that didn't, even like losing everything in the real estate market, and then you still built yourself up, and then you went into this other place and they're like, nope. And then you were like, okay, well, I'll do something else. I mean, there's a lot to be taken from your story is that you just keep going and you keep bettering yourself and you keep finding opportunities for yourself to make a better life and good on you. And thank you for sharing it. I think it's something that we all need to hear because I think it's not the...

50:14
the storybook, it's not the movie version of life, right? Exactly. Right? Exactly, it is not. But it's probably more realistic for so many people in that there's a lot of twists and turns, there's a lot of things that we have to push through to come out to be the people that we are today. Yes, you're right. You know, all my life experiences, as far as I'm concerned, has made me stronger, period. I think so, I mean, I see it. I mean, and I see the way that you talk about these experiences.

50:44
Two, which is you don't talk about them with anger. You don't talk about them. There's a positivity in the way that you deliver your story, which I think is really refreshing as well, because I think some people would still be angry about certain moments. And I like that it seems that you've taken stock of all that and you've seen how your life plays out. If people listening would wanna read your books or they wanna get into your circle or they wanna find out more about you, what's like?

51:13
the best way to find you since you're all over the place? Well, for your audience, we are offering, your audience can go to Divine and Green, that is my website, that you can go in there and download the first chapter free of my new book, my up and coming book, it'll be out in January. Perfect. And they can read it and enjoy. Awesome. And hopefully if they like it, you know, they- Purchase a copy.

51:41
purchase a copy after January 27th. This will come out a little bit after that. So it'll be out by the time that this episode comes out. So we'll share that link for sure. And congratulations on book number two. Can you, before we go, can you tell us why you go by this pen name? Well, Devine and Green is, it's an ode to my family and my firstborn, my daughter. Devine is her name and Green is my family name.

52:11
My dad went by a pen name, his pen name was BB Johnson. So it's an ode to my family and my daughter. And then, you know, I try to keep my father's legacy alive inside me in my writing. I think you're doing it. Even I haven't read your work, but the way that you tell your story and the way that you represent your family in this way, I feel like there's a very positive piece in your world. I think, I feel like, I don't know.

52:40
But are you just a positive person? Because it feels very much so. I try to be as positive as I can, man. And then I have, you know, you got to find some people in your life. I have a mentor. I have a few mentors. One of my mentors named Amon Krupp in Atlanta, Georgia. And the guy is just phenomenal. And he does, I listen to a coffee call that he does every week on Fridays. And he's a business owner, also a millionaire. But you know, he's one of my mentors.

53:09
And I pay attention to it. I pay attention to it. And everybody needs to find positives in their lives because you just took so much negatives out here in the world, man. Come on, man. I appreciate your positivity. I appreciate your story. And I'm very glad that your daughter came that day and saw you at that moment. Me too. Right? I mean, it feels very serendipitous in the way that it changed your life. And I'm happy that because of that, we're able to have this conversation.

53:38
from wherever you are right now in the world. So thank you for just being a part of this. Well, thank you so much, man. And you can read my book too. You can download that first chapter. Well, I will now. Yeah, yeah. And people listening, if you got this far, I don't do the research of my guests beforehand because I do want these things to unfold in the way that I feel is a candid conversation and not preconceived notions about certain things. And so hopefully.

54:04
You understand that, but now I can read it. Well, I can't until January, but I can read your first book. What is your first book called? My first book is called Laredo on the Wave, or Rise of Acosta. That is about a sicario in Mexico, and he is the worst of the worst, and he turns out to be somebody else altogether. Okay. Hmm, maybe there's some parallels, but I appreciate you. Thank you for just wanting to be a part of this, and...

54:32
People will check out the link in the show notes. And if you are listening and you enjoyed what Jonathan had to say today, or you think someone out there might need to hear his story, please share this episode with them. And with that, I'm gonna say goodbye, Jonathan, and I will see everyone else next week for a brand new episode of the Life Shift Podcast. Thanks, Jonathan. It was a pleasure, Matt. Thank you, sir