External Validation & the Courage to Pursue Wildest Dreams | LOLO Pritchard

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Well, it was like, oh, I'm not just writing for myself because I think that even though I had, I had had success up until that point, it's not like I did not myself have success. But you know, Carole King was my hero. And you know, Carole King did her own thing, whatever, but she wrote songs for lots of other people. And to me, that was always like that. That was the barometer.

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for me of like, is the universe going to allow this to happen? Or like, am I just going to do my thing over here? And that's all it is. And that's just what I need to worry about. And so I really was given the opportunity not only to try something new, which was writing for really writing for the male mentality or just writing not purely from

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my own female perspective. It was an enormous turning point that also pushed me as a writer into other spaces and places that up until that point I was like, oh, I don't feel comfortable doing that. In this episode, I speak to my brand new friend Lolo Pritchard and Lolo was actually introduced to me through my friend Randy Redd, who was on a previous episode actually.

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early 2022. So it was pretty early in this journey. And Randy and Lolo have worked together. And I actually saw Lolo Pritchard in Spring Awakening way back when, when she was on Broadway doing the role of Ilsa. But in this conversation, we talk about kind of her journey through the entertainment industry to eventually land on that true passion that she had all along, but how she found her way there and how...

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It actually took some external validation and acceptance from others to realize her true power and her true skills in songwriting. It was really interesting to hear how she took advantage of certain offers in her life in this entertainment industry such as the Broadway Opportunity. She worked really hard to get there, of course. And then also doing her songwriting at night and on the weekends and flying back and forth from London to New York and going home to Tennessee.

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and all the dedication that she put into pursuing this dream. And when she was writing for her own album, she had the opportunity to write for a different person, for someone writing from a different perspective. And getting that acceptance and approval was something that was really a pivotal moment in her life where she was like, oh, I can go for whatever dream that I want to go for. And that's really when things started getting even bigger for her and feeling more purposeful in her life.

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And so I hope you enjoy this story. We went off on a couple tangents as I usually do, but I really appreciate the opportunity to have a conversation with Lolo. And as I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, we were actually in the same room at the same time, but this time we were recording on a remote recording platform. So I hope you enjoy this episode. But before we get to it, I just want to do a regular shout out to my Patreon supporters. This week I wanna talk about Traci.

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Miki and Emily, who all sponsor two episodes a month on the Patreon tier to help with the production costs and the marketing and all the things that I'm trying to do with this podcast. And so I do a little shout out every couple episodes. So thank you to Traci, Miki, and Emily for that. If you're interested in being a part of the Patreon community and possibly winning a t-shirt for every five people that join the Patreon, please head over to patreon.com

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podcast and you can see all the information. There are tiers as low as $3 a month. So thank you for any consideration. If you don't want to do that, if you could just share an episode with a friend, that would be greatly appreciated. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Lolo Pritchard. I'm Matt Gilhooly, and this is the Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

04:26
Hello my friends, welcome to the Life Shift Podcast. I am here with Lolo Pritchard. Hey Lolo. Hi. Can I call you Lolo? Of course. Okay, I know you have a birth name, so I didn't want to. Well there's Lauren Pritchard, and then there's Lolo, and then there's Lolo Pritchard, and then there's my married name, which is Lauren Pritchard Cobb, so. You have all sorts of names. People are like, what do you want me to call you? I'm like, I genuinely don't care, and I.

04:54
Think sometimes when I say that to people, it comes across bitchier than I actually mean it to. And I'm like, I actually don't care. My parents, obviously, and like my siblings, they call me Lauren. But like all of my really close friends, for the most part, they have even actually abbreviated Lolo just down to Lo. So, you know, it's really endless. It's whatever. I have a friend named Anna, and I'm like, is it Anna or Anna? She's like, either one. I'm like, well, no, I think there is one that you prefer.

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And so that's very common. So I think that's probably how your friends feel or people that you just meet feel. And you're like, I don't care, whatever. Any of those, here's eight choices, pick one. Well, honestly, the way I feel about it is I actually don't care what you call me as long as you don't call me Laura. Oh, that would be terrible. That's what I got called my whole life. And my name was Lauren. And it just drove me insane. It's nothing against the name Laura. It's essentially the same name as my name, but it was not my name. So anyway.

05:54
Well, this is, we've actually been in the same room at the same time in 2008, I think. And maybe I should tell you why, that I think you know. Cause of Spring Awakening. You were in the original Broadway cast of Spring Awakening, right? And on the recording and. Yes, I originated the role of Ilsa in Spring Awakening. I did it off Broadway. I did the last.

06:23
I did the final workshop. I did the off-Broadway run at the Atlantic Theater Company, and then I transferred with the production to Broadway. I'm sure that was quite an experience for you. It was quite an experience for a lot of reasons, but it was also quite an experience because when I got the job, I signed a contract to do a workshop, a final workshop, and the off-Broadway run. There was no Broadway contract, you know?

06:52
The show opened at the Atlantic in the summer of 2006, and it got this glowing review from Charles Usherwood, Saint, in my opinion. And so then we extended once, then we like extended again, we extended again. And so every time they brought us into the theater at the Atlantic, we just assumed they were gonna tell us we were extending again. And...

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If it had not gone well, we would have closed like around the 4th of July. And so we get to like the middle of August and they bring us into the theater again and we just thought they were going to tell us that we were extending and they told us we were going to Broadway and we were equally part, you know, it was like equally part parts of us. We were like, that's amazing. And then we were also like, what does that mean? Cause you were all like kids.

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Right? Yes. There's a wonderful article. What was that article recently that came out a couple months ago about kind of your journey with that? Trying to think, it was an LA, maybe an LA paper of some sort. Yeah, it was the LA Times. That was a great article and it gives us a lot of insight and of that journey for you and quite a journey. I know we're not here to talk about Spring Awakening, but I was there and it was such a great experience for me. It was, you know, it was.

08:18
It was probably like my fifth or sixth Broadway show that I had seen in my life. And it was very impactful because I was kind of like early 20s when I saw it maybe. And what a journey. And then you guys just did that reunion, which I believe was a lot of your idea. It was my baby. It was great for those of us that saw it, really early on and kind of got to see all you people and what you guys have done with your lives. And I'm so.

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excited to talk to you and our mutual friend connected us, our friend, Randy Redd. And Randy and I. The one and only. The one and only Randy Redd. Let's say nice things because we want to make sure that we only say nice things. But Randy and I have been friends for a long time and he was on the podcast in the first year and he trusted me with his story before, you know, it was really out because this podcast started as a as a school project. It started. I was just getting an extra master's degree because I was super bored.

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and I took an art of podcasting class and decided, you know what, my mom died when I was a kid. I want to talk to people about these moments that have changed their lives forever, and it was just going to be a project. Then I reached out to all my friends that I knew had like different things happening in their lives and Randy was generous to share his living the quote unquote dream of Broadway, and then needing to escape multiple times to really find his true passion and purpose.

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in life. So that was just such a wonderful experience to talk to him about that. Do you have anything nice to say about him? Well, I was just going to say, I met Randy in 2012. We were working on a musical theater piece called Fiction in Photographs. Great recording. Yes. So beautiful, honestly. Dan Mills, right? Yeah. Dan's music is extraordinary. It's just so

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impossible to not be moved by it, I think. And I think that's also, you know, just, it's part of, Dan and I are also, Randy and I are very close. Dan and I have stayed very close, you know, I've stayed very close with pretty much honestly, the whole cast that we did that with. You know, it was interesting when I met, knowing what I know about Randy's journey, it was so interesting when I met him because I was really in the middle of my own life shift at that moment. I had been living in England.

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for three years. I loved the Spring Awakening experience, but I wanted to be a songwriter and I just happened to get cast in this show. And I got my publishing deal while I was doing Spring Awakening. And I was like doing writing sessions during the daytime. And then I would go and do a Broadway show at night. And I wasn't able to travel because I was in the show. And, you know, and I left the show and I kind of never went back to Broadway in a performing capacity because I...

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really couldn't if I was going to sort of take on this new world, this new songwriting world and job. So anyway, I was moving back from England. I had fired the manager I had been with for seven years. There were just a lot of shifts going on in that time. Through a friend of a friend of a friend, I wound up doing fiction.

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I don't even remember why, because I didn't know any of those people. And I'm trying to remember who the person was that connect. It was someone that had connected me to Randy. They sent me the music. I heard the music one time. I was like, oh yeah, I'll do that. Cause I'm very much a vibe person. Like if I read it or I hear it, I'm like, oh, I love that. I'll work on that. Or if it's just really not my thing, I'm like, I think this is great, but I just don't think this I I'm right for the, you know, right for this and.

12:14
You're not really an opportunist. You're more of does this fit? Does this serve me? Does this feel right in this space? Yeah. And like maybe that makes me I don't know, some kind of fucking maybe I should be more of a I don't know, go getter. I'm an enormous go getter and I work my ass off. But I'm just like, I'm such a vibe person. No, it makes sense. If I really don't feel connected, I feel like my relationship with just music in general has been that it comes from such a

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an organic and spiritual place that if I do, if I'm not feeling it, I really can't fucking even hardly sing it. I mean, I can sing it, but I like I can't sing it. I can't feel it. And I've always been that way. You have a song called Yellow Brick Road that I really connected with. And it reminds me of that idea of not being an opportunist, even though we're taught in society to like, you have to have this, this, this and this.

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And that will equal success, or that will equal happiness, or that will equal joy. And on the show, I talked to a lot of people about this checklist life of like, you know, I didn't go to college because I wanted to go to college. I went to college because that's what I was told to do, or that was what society was telling me to do next. And then I got the job that I didn't want because it paid me a certain amount.

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And then I got promoted, not because I wanted to, but because society told me to. And so that song was like, when I heard that song, I was like, wow, this is my life. This is how I feel now about my previous life. And that was really why we wrote the song, the two guys I wrote the song, I co-wrote the song with a guy named Joe, a guy named Gavin, two guys that live in Nashville. And yeah, I had a writing session set up with them and they were like, what do you want to write about today? And I was like, I...

14:09
This is what I want to write about. I had been brewing the idea and I had written already some verse lyrics. And especially that beginning part, they told you to buy a house, but if you buy a house, then you need a family. If you have a family, get a degree to get a job, you know, and the statement. I know a lot of people with a lot of those things with a lot of problems and they still tell me that's what will make me happy. That was one of the lyrics that I had written.

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And before we actually put any music to anything, I sort of showed up with this little word, I call them word vomits really ultimately. And I think that everybody, quite honestly, even if you're like, quote unquote, living your dream life and your dream job and whatever, blah, blah, blah. You know, I think everybody goes through moments and sometimes many moments depending on who or what you are, what you are, what you're doing, what you're whatever.

15:09
where they're like, you know, what am I doing? Is this right? Is this what I wanted? Is this what I thought it was going to be? Whatever, all those types of questions. Honestly, one of the reasons why I was excited to sort of take that job with Randy and go up there and work on that is because like the entire crux of that piece was a question mark. It was like kind of also that same kind of thing. It was like these five people who were

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looking at their lives in an introspective way going, am I doing the right thing or am I happy? They each kind of had their own internal question. And because my life was a giant question mark at that point, I had given up my place in London, but I was still having to be there a lot for work. So I was staying with some friends.

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which just gave me some more flexibility. I was in a moment where I did not need to feel tethered. So then the only place where I really had all of my shit was the house I grew up in, in Tennessee. So I would like fly back, hang out with my parents, pack a bag, go back to London, pack a bag, go back to New York, pack a bag, go to LA. I was just, my life was a big question mark. And then Randy got an opportunity to do the production at.

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in the fall of that year. And so I got on a plane on September 11th, 2012 and moved back to New York after being gone for like three, almost four years really. But it's just interesting because I think, you know, I think there are probably many times in every person's life where they do ask themselves some version of the question of...

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is any of this right? Am I doing this right? Is any of this right? You know, it's like. I think there's value in that. I think that if we just kind of go on this roller coaster that doesn't stop and someone else is in control of it, then maybe we're not doing what we should be doing. I think we should be doing what you just said, is asking ourselves, like, is this serving me? And I think, I don't know about you, and we'll get into your story at some point, but the...

17:29
Pandemic, I feel that this experience of the pandemic, as horrible as it has been for many, many people, has given a lot of people the time to sit and reevaluate kind of what's important in their lives and who is important in their lives and what is serving them best. And so if we're looking at any silver lining of the last couple of years, I think there's been this time of like a reset for a lot of people.

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in that same sense of like, everyone probably has a moment of where they're like, am I doing this right? But how many people are actually taking action on what they've thought about. Right? And so maybe this reset gave a lot of people that time to go, OK, I can make a plan now because I have time. Sure. And I also think it's simply that we live in a modern time where we are all told that if we're not doing it, then the world will stop turning.

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Yeah, and we found out that it's not true. Yeah, and we found out that that was absolutely not true and that the world really does keep spinning without us or without us doing anything, you know, kind of thing, or just doing what we needed to do for like literal survival, you know, whatever. Which is okay. And I also think, you know, there's these constant, you know,

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The boomers love to talk about how the youth do not know what it's like to want for anything or be afraid or, you know, that that's our biggest issue and whatever. And I understand the validity of the sort of underlying meaning of that. Meaning...

19:22
There are people that grew up in this country for a very long time because there was a various war or this or a crisis or whatever going on. So you just had a more heightened sense of danger, right? That something could go wrong. And honestly, even when the things were going on post 9 11, it didn't affect us. It was all of that was literally physically somewhere else out of sight, out of mind.

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So regardless of what might've been going on in the war in Iraq, in a literal sense, we did not retain that information because we did not have to bear witness to that, right? You know, and so then the pandemic is like our only modern understanding of being unsafe, right? So I think there was also this psychological aspect of...

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really understanding what survival might actually mean to you, because you may not have had to have a real conversation with yourself about it before that moment. And also, that was no one's fault. That was not a bad thing. That's just the way that it is. That's just what it was. I mean, you look at a lot of what happened in the pandemic for people. There were tons of people who

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divorced or canceled a wedding or quit their dream job or these really massive decisions, life shift decisions. They would never have made those decisions if it were not for an actual grace period to sit down and say, what?

21:13
now that everything has been stripped away, where am I really? And I think that honestly, because so many of us are, I don't want to say going through the motions because that feels like not really right. I don't think anyone honestly to a certain degree is going through the motions, but I think that everybody is just in their own place all the time, you know? And it's sort of like that.

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cliche you think of that you hear, which is like, you never really know what someone's going through. But like, that's a that is true. Anyone can be going through anything at any time, any anywhere. And ultimately, you're not in their brain. So you can't contest it either. Like everyone's like if we're here in this free ass country, then everybody's then here we are, you know, everybody's entitled to what it is.

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And so I think that also the thing that I've, I found to be particularly very interesting coming out the other side, not just for myself, but watching so many other people that I know and love go through it was just really bearing witness to the searching because once the pandemic was, you know, not even necessarily over so much as lifted, reduced, you know, whatever.

22:42
once we even sort of got on the other side of some of the craziness and the scariness, it didn't resolve people's searching. But again, I don't think that's a bad thing. I think actually in some ways it, the questions went from being just a tiny little whisper in your head to like a megaphone yelling at you, you know, and I think it's been that for a lot of people. I think there's a lot of value in it. So in interest of, of kind of

23:11
getting into your story, you've kind of hinted at certain areas. I don't know if that's what we're going to talk about. I love the show because I don't want to know too much, because I want it to be like this conversation that we're having. And I think we've talked about so many valuable things. But everyone, as you point out, there's lots of life shifts in our lives. And we like to highlight here maybe the most pivotal so far in our lives. So maybe you can kind of paint the picture of what your life was like, leading up to whatever moment you want to talk about on this show. Sure.

23:42
I think the moment I would like to talk about honestly is the moment where I was finally having an opportunity to really become the writer that I wanted to be. Meaning just having the ability to work on things and not have to work so hard to justify any of it. Like to not fit in a mold that they're making of you? Yeah.

24:12
not just fit in a mold, but also finally have a few things happen that also just kind of help say to people, I am actually doing, this is what I actually do. This is no longer a pipe dream. This is no longer a disputable fact. This is how I pay my bills.

24:38
This is truly what I do, both in spirit and in literal business kind of thing. I can relate to that. I think a lot of people can, honestly. I think so many people can relate to that. But simultaneously with that, I also lost a very, very, very close friend who had... He was like my New York dad.

25:06
We met actually because he and his wife were producers of Spring Awakening. I met them when I was a literal child. And you know, they knew I'm very close with my parents, but my parents live in Tennessee, and we didn't have the kind of money of like, oh, my parents can just come live there. You know, it's like, we didn't live that way. So I was very grateful to have someone like Neil and his wife, Carol, take me under their wing.

25:33
And take care of me, you know, it was and I'm still very close with his widow, Carol. It was also just one of those things that was so. Frustrating, almost and bitter, so bittersweet and so hard and so frustrating the way that it is when you lose anyone. But Neil had always been like the person I could call that would be so insanely objective with me in the most beneficial way. And I couldn't call him any.

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more. And there were these tremendous things happening to me. And, you know, there were equal parts of me that were like, I feel like Neil is in the sky pulling the puppet strings. You know, there was a part of my heart that felt that. And then it was also like infuriating that he couldn't help me navigate some real things that were going on. Yeah. And he had worked in the world of entertainment as a producer.

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as a, especially as an executive producer on quite a few projects and things. And so, you know, he just had this knowledge and experience that was very big picture and so incredibly helpful. But leading, leading up to that, you know, my life post spring awakening, you know, the problem is when you, this is going to sound like a ridiculous thing to say, but the problem when you do something really, really awesome and like fame worthy.

27:02
right? Like Spring Awakening. It was not just a little like... I mean, how many Tonys we talking? Puddlesplash. It was like a kaboom. And massive. It won eight Tonys, including Best Musical. The recording won a Grammy. It was, you know, the whole kit and kaboodle. And the show ran for a while too. Honestly, I think the show would have kept running longer than it did.

27:32
If it weren't for the economic crisis stuff that happened in 2009, I mean, it killed, it killed many shows. We'd not just us. It killed a lot of Broadway shows at that time. And it was sad because it was like a bunch of shows that were honestly doing really well considering people couldn't afford to go, let alone travel to go. So anyway, the problem when you do something that legitimately puts you on the map.

28:02
is that when you try to do anything else, people are like, oh, but why aren't you just doing that thing? Right? So I like, last Spring Awakening, people thought I was fucking crazy to not wanna keep doing Broadway shows as an actress. But they're not doing eight shows a week and they don't understand the constraints and the hardship and the...

28:30
how withdrawn, honestly, you have to be in order to take care of yourself to just be able to do the job. Right, not to mention that that character's backstory and songs were very intense. Yeah, I played a 15-year-old girl that's talking about being basically raped and sexually abused on the daily. And then I go to my childhood friend's funeral because he commits suicide, and I have to live in a dark place every day.

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or six days a week, sometimes twice a day. And I'm doing that simultaneously as an 18, 19, 20 year old, 21 year old, while I'm trying to figure out how the fuck I even feel about life or myself or anything, you know? And that was, I mean, all of our experiences in so many ways, you know, which is part of the reason why, flash forward 15 years, I felt, and really we all felt as strongly as we did about.

29:30
doing the reunion because I think there were so many parts of it that we were never going to be able to completely understand at the ages that we were because then when it was time to do the show 15 years later, and now we're all actual adults, we were like, some of us were like legally adults in the eyes of the law. We were not adults by any stretch of the imagination. You know, we look back on it all and just we were like, I cannot believe.

29:59
we got away with that. Or like, I can't believe that. I can't believe that happened. But I say all of that to say revisiting it was honestly incredibly therapeutic. Oh, I bet. Yeah. Even trying to be like, oh yeah, I don't even know that I would have understood how I felt about that then. And really that was a big part of the LA Times article in the documentary.

30:29
I come forth about being sexually abused as a child. I've really had never honestly publicly come clean about it ever until that point. And the article in the LA Times is about that, but really about the journey of working on the show for so many years and never really coming clean about it, even though that was even the case then. You know, but even still, even to that, even to that.

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specific thing. It was like, back then, I wasn't ready to even begin to deal with it. Even in a sense of having to unpack it for my job, because I was a little too relatable to my character. You know? Yeah, I can't imagine that. And I think a lot of people don't understand that. And so when you're leaving Spring Awakening, people are like, why aren't you going to the next show? Why aren't you doing this? And you're like,

31:26
Do you realize what I've just done? You know, like. But like I said, also, I'm such a vibe person that like, and I don't mean this the way that it's going to come out, but like there was no world where it was going to be easy for me to go from that straight into anything just because I, I don't. I wasn't. You're going to the Lion King. Is that what you're saying? Well, yeah, I mean.

31:53
And honestly, the only thing that I even was willing to audition for was the hair revival. And I literally looked too young. I auditioned for Sheila and Will Swenson, who I love with my whole heart, but is not the same age as me by any stretch of the imagination. And especially then, I had just let go of Spring Awakening and I still looked 15 years old. And Diane Paulus was like, you are amazing and...

32:20
we can't cast you because it looks like a rape scene. You know, it's just like you. He looked so much older than me at that time, that it was like, yeah, of course, that's not gonna work, you know. So it was just the way that it was. And after and after that, I just because I was already living in London at that point, working recording writing, and I flew back for those auditions, because I was like, I was willing to fly back for that.

32:48
You know, that was again, one of those things where I was like, oh yeah, I'd totally be down to do this, but only if it's right. Right. You always wanted to be a songwriter and do that, right? This Broadway thing just happened to happen. Well, even when I, so I auditioned for spring awakening in LA. I moved to LA when I was a junior in high school. I'd been songwriting in Nashville because I lived two hours. I grew up two hours from, I live back in my hometown. Now I grew up two hours from Nashville and Jackson, Tennessee. I would go, my mom would drive me there. Like

33:17
two, three times a week, I would go and song right there. With legitimate Nashville writers. But Nashville was, that was like 20 actual years ago. I am 35, so like 20 whole years ago, Nashville was a completely different place. And there was nothing else being made there but country music. And I love country music, but I was not interested in just doing country music, especially as a young woman. I mean, it was just a really different place.

33:46
So I like made a bet with my parents like, okay, well, if I do X, Y, and Z and blah, blah, blah, can I move to LA? And then, and they were like, sure, because they knew I was working really hard. And, and, and also at that point, I had done regional theater in Nashville and I already had my equity card. So like, I've been working since I was nine. So it wasn't like I was just like, bebop and around like, you know, I was working my ass off as a teenager, honestly. And so I did all of those things.

34:16
that I sort of made the bet with my parents on. And then they were like, damn. So I moved with my mom as a junior in high school and I moved there to song write. I took all of my national connections. I moved to LA, I started songwriting, I started recording. I was, and I got an agent because the world of acting is just less convoluted than the music industry.

34:40
The world of acting is like, you're an independent contractor. You get hired for the job. You're paid for the job. You move on with your life. It just literally, like, unless you're Reese Witherspoon and you're fucking producing your projects and whatever, it's just less convoluted than the music industry. And so I was like, I can at least maybe, I don't know, look a couple of commercials and some TV spots to like pay my bills. And while I get this songwriting thing really figured out. And in that time, I went on an audition for Spring Awakening.

35:11
And Duncan Sheik particularly was like, I'm not doing the show without her. It's a non-negotiable. He didn't have to fight very hard for me, is my understanding, but he was like, I'm not doing the show without her. But the whole time, I mean, like my biography, my bio in the Playbill was like, I'm actually a songwriter. You can check out my music on MySpace. Like literally, with the MySpace link written in the bio. I have it somewhere. I should have found it.

35:39
And then I got a message, because I got my publishing deal while I was doing Spring Awakening and I got a message from the vice president of, at the time it was called Sony ATV Music Publishing. Now it's just called Sony Music Publishing. They changed their name about a year and a half ago, but for a long, long time it was called Sony ATV Music Publishing. And I got a message from the assistant of Danny Strick, who was the vice president of the company at the time. Huge.

36:06
Music industry giant, Marty Van Deer had recently purchased it. They were trying to rebuild this company. They were kind of failing when Marty purchased them and, and flash forward to where they are now. They are the largest, most successful publishing company in the world. That's because Marty's honestly a genius. He only recently retired. But like I literally got a message to my MySpace inbox that was like, this is a real...

36:32
person. This is not a fake request. It's like that kind of thing. When I had a meeting, this had the other, and I'd been with them 15 years. I signed my deal while I was doing the show. But I left the show. And so for a while, the songwriting that I was doing, this is also just kind of an indication of where the industry was when I started. And I started 15 years ago.

37:00
The actual music industry was just totally different than it is now. Twitter didn't exist. Facebook was only for college students. My space was still number one and Tom was everybody's best friend. And you know what I mean? No Instagram, no, none of this. Like when I signed my first record deal, they sent us all, I was at Island records in the UK and they sent us all a beta version of.

37:30
Spotify to test out, they wanted all the artists to test it out and send over what the criticisms were. I mean, that's what I'm talking about, right? The interesting part about it is that when I began, when I was first signing, I was first writing, I was signed, I was also making my own albums. I wasn't really given a lot of opportunity to write.

37:57
for others or with others, or if I was doing that, it was in the understanding that I was also somehow gonna have to be responsible for performing the material. And I appreciate that people think that I can carry a tune. I do, and I have an understanding of...

38:24
what my capacity is as a singer and as a performer. You know, I understand that I was given a gift to communicate musically, but just because that's the case doesn't mean that's always what I wanted to do. You know, and so it ha- that has kind of been the biggest problem is that for a lot of the songs I've written, a lot of the things that I've

38:53
I don't think anyone's gonna sing it better than that. So how are we gonna sell it to someone else who can't sing it as well as that? And it's like the most frustrating compliment in the world because my answer is like, well, figure it out. I don't care, figure it out. I don't care how you're gonna sell it, just figure it out. And you're like, I can't be the only person that could sing this, right? Like, I feel like...

39:21
there's some part of you that's probably like, really? Are you just blowing smoke? Always, because I'm like, well, I know great singers. I know this, I know that, but I think a lot of what it comes from is, again, as anyone who's ever listened to music, it's like, Billy Joel's always gonna sing his songs better because they come from such a sincere place, such as, of course, sincere real life place for him. And my songs are, you know,

39:51
They come from the same kind of place within me. I write about the life I'm living and the things that I see and the things that I know and whatever that is. So I understand what they meant, but as the shift was happening, part of what happened was I started working with, I went from working with a lot of female artists and doing that kind of collaboration to working with male artists and working in the,

40:20
world of rock and roll and alternative rock and roll with bands like Fall Out Boy and Panic at the Disco, where also I was able to kind of, because I feel like my writing has a theatrical quality to it for sure. And I mean, that's also like, because I went doing theater since I was really young. So it's sort of like a default to a certain degree.

40:49
Being able to work with bands like that that ultimately do make rock and roll, but they have a very theatrical quality to their rock and roll was wonderful. And it was also like working with men meant that it didn't really matter how I sang it. It was going to be completely different for them anyway. You know what I mean? So, you know, I finally had the opportunity to work on some projects and that was really honestly like

41:19
a massive turning point for me and a massive life shift because once I started working on this project and they started going well, they had both been bands that had been around for a really long time at that point, like a decade. And those bands were breaking out at the same time that I would have been in New York doing Spring Awakening. So they had been around a while and had kind of gone.

41:48
through varying degrees of ups and downs. Especially the work I did with Panic, I made three albums over six and a half, seven years with them. Oh, wow. From a writing capacity? Yeah, from a songwriting capacity. I featured on the very first song I ever worked on them with, and then everything else was purely songwriting. Being given the opportunity to help them, especially Brendan, the lead singer, communicate himself was an enormous.

42:18
privilege and compliment, you know, because...

42:23
You're not necessarily putting words in their mouth, but like you are also. Cause he was always a part of the process, but writing with him collaboratively, you know, everybody contributes what they contribute. And, you know, so to be able to do that and be trusted, you know, with the responsibility of that was an enormous compliment and beyond that it was a turning point for me because. I think that.

42:53
especially because this male female thing felt like a little bit of a roadblock at up until that point of like is anybody going to let me actually write for just whoever male female or whatever right or is it just you know or am i just always going to have to because i at this point was

43:23
like writing songs for every single character in the show. But even that is entirely different than writing songs for an actual person who's like in that band and going to be like, or that artist who's going to be singing those songs like from the depths of their soul, their truth, you know, it's just a different thing than when you're writing for imaginary characters.

43:44
So was this like the part where you said like, it was almost like that validation that like, I could do this, this is a real career, when someone asked me, what do I do? Well. Well, it was like, oh, I'm not just writing for myself because I think that even though I had, I had had success up until that point, it's not like I did not myself have success, but you know, Carole King was my hero and-

44:12
You know, Carole King did her own thing, whatever, but she wrote songs for lots of other people. And to me, that was always like that. That was the barometer for me of like, is the universe going to allow this to happen or like, am I just going to do my thing over here? And that's all it is. And that's just what I need to worry about. And so by the life shift turning.

44:42
into the place where I really was given the opportunity not only to try something new, which was writing for, really writing for the male mentality or just writing not purely from my own female perspective. It was an enormous turning point that also pushed me as a writer.

45:12
into other spaces and places that then I, that up until that point, I was like, Oh, I don't feel comfortable doing that. And honestly, one of those projects is working. I have a couple of musicals that are in varying degrees of production. And one of the projects I've worked on for a while is a project that's roughly titled Beethoven. And it's about the Tulsa riots, the Tulsa massacre.

45:41
happened in the 1920s. There's an incredible young woman named Morgan Green who has written just this absolutely beautiful script. And so I've been working with her on the music. And that was another one of those projects that like kind of, I think without some of that, some of the shift that happened with that other writing, I was like, I don't think I can do that. You know, it seemed, I know for a fact, it would have felt too intimidating to take on.

46:12
So this really gave you a lot more confidence in... It gave me a lot more confidence. I mean, it sounds like you knew you knew how to write, you knew you knew how to sing these songs, you knew that you could help other people, but this like slight maybe outside validation of like someone accepting that and then doing it gives you this extra confidence to go after the things you always wanted to do probably, but were too afraid to do. Well, and it was also like that I didn't have to seek them out.

46:41
They wanted to make those records with me. They sought me out to make another album with them, and then another album with them. So that must do something to your psyche, right? What does that feel like when they do that? Do you question that? Or at that point, did you question like me, really? Why me? Or were you like, yes, let's go? It was a little bit of both, but the biggest thing for me was I felt, well,

47:10
As my grandfather would say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. It had been like going really well, going really well. And you know, the second album was nominated for a Grammy. The second album I took with them. And the first song I wrote for the album was the title album of the, the title song of the album, death, death of a bachelor. And I was floored. I mean, I remember the day they called me to tell me that my song was going to be the title of the album. I actually like.

47:40
thought I was just gonna keel over and die, you know? And honestly, it was moments like that where I was sort of going in my mind, oh my God, really? Me, this, me? Even though I was like, of course, this song is the fucking tits, but. So like, of course it's this song, but it's like, really, me, this? Are you sure? You know, it's like.

48:10
It's that funny feeling. I think it's a good thing. Yeah. I mean, the best way I can describe it is like the cliche is like you're in high school and you've got to play dodgeball at recess and somebody picks you first. Oh yeah. And you're like, me? Yeah. To be on your team? Are you sure? You know, it's like. Man, I want to play dodgeball now. You know, I don't ever want to play dodgeball. It was so fun. We can cut this part out if it's not a good story, but.

48:38
You did a song with Matt Nathanson, right? I did. I love that song. I love that song too. Was that a good experience? It was an amazing experience and honestly like the funniest... He's from like my hometown area too. Oh, I don't think I realized that. Alright, I guess I just didn't put it together that you guys are from the same... He's wonderful and also one of the funniest people. His concerts. It's like a comedy show with music. It is a comedy show with music. Like he should... he could have been a...

49:08
full blown stand up comedian if you wanted to be. The funniest part about that was that I did not realize he was going down to shoot the music video that he did with the people that were experiencing hearing loss and getting to hear again. I didn't know that. We had recorded the song and then he was going to do his thing because I was also on tour at the time. So I was off in my own world. He's off in his own world. We had a second to come together to record the song.

49:35
And then he went and shot that video and then he sent it to me by email. And he was like, hey, I just wanted you to see the video before we released it. And I was like, I was like crying so hard that like my eyes were swollen for a few days.

49:51
You know, and that song has been really special to be a part of because, you know, I think that, again, the message of that song is so sincere. People do feel invincible with their headphones on. And it makes me feel very emotional when I think about it because I think there are so many in

50:19
There are so many instances in life where your headphones can be your greatest protection. Not just like if you're LeBron James with your headphones on getting ready to go out and play the final NBA playoffs game, but like if you're a kid at home in an abusive environment and your only safe space is putting your headphones on for a little while, you know, it's like... Quiet the outside. Or...

50:48
You know, I have lost a couple of friends recently to suicide and, you know, music was an enormous part of their life. And I know that, that those moments with music in their life did make them happier. And did keep them here for a little bit longer. And speaking to what this, what your podcast is about, you know, I think that

51:16
that sort of phenomenon that you experience with your headphones on kind of thing. It can create a tremendous amount of life shift in people because you get to disappear. Like for me, I have a tremendous amount of anxiety. I always have. It's much more manageable now, but it used to be so bad. But I was like very high functioning. But my biggest thing was like,

51:47
I've never just been able to like go places where I cannot pick the music. I'm like real fucking sensitive in this way. So like if I go into the coffee shop and the music's not right, I can't even sit, I can like order my coffee but I have to like leave, right? And the grocery store is my absolute worst nightmare. And the thing that always would make me feel calm.

52:17
is literally listening to like classical orchestrations of Christmas music. I mean, I just knew what to expect. Right. And it would just really calm me the fuck down. And so, you know, I don't really have to do it as much anymore. But, you know, there are times where like if I've got to run errands, you can best believe that I am literally listening to Christmas music. I love it. On my headphones. It sounds insane.

52:47
But again, it's a disappearing into sometimes what is the most comfortable or just reliable thing that we can find. And I think that sometimes there is a lot of life shift in that, I think about moments that people go through where maybe it's been a long time since they've listened to their actual favorite song. And then they finally listened to that again for the first time in a while and you're like, oh damn.

53:17
And it brings them to a space that brings them to a happy space. I think not to make this about podcasts, but I think there's a value of headphones with podcasts as well and this idea of why the life shift exists. This eight-year-old version of Matt, when his mother dies suddenly in a motorcycle accident and no one around him knows how to help him. And so me growing up.

53:47
I felt very alone. I knew other people probably had dead parents, but I felt like I was the only one that had a dead mom in this situation. And I just felt very alone. And I think, you know, when I create these episodes, I think I hope that the right ears find the story that they needed to hear. And so that, you know, I'm thinking eight-year-old Matt putting on headphones and hearing someone talk about, you know, a parent dying when they were younger and how well they're doing now or what they've processed since then.

54:16
I think that also, it's not music, but I think that also could bring some kind of comfort where the outside world is just too much, too much stuff is going on. That's what drives me. I totally relate to your feelings about that headphone song. I think that representation in any form matters. In a desperate sense, honestly. I do a lot of songwriting.

54:45
coaching these days to people who want to do essentially what I do for a living. And to what you're saying about your experiences losing your mother, I mean, I really honestly can't even fathom, truly. I mean, I am a grown ass woman, my mother is still alive, I would be literally lost without her. And

55:12
And I have to be an independent person and I would still be lost without her. So I mean it from the bottom of my heart when I say, I, I just can't imagine what you experienced and not to compare this to that, because that is extraordinary. But in the, in what I'm trying to say about representation of experience, not just visual representation, but representation of emotional journey, emotional experience.

55:43
You know, there are a lot of people that I work with and they're just like, yeah, but I don't know how I can get there. I don't know. You know, and it was like, well, I didn't know. I just had to keep going and just sort of keep walking through the tunnels until I came out into the light or whatever. Because I, I think with a lot of things in life, one of the, the things that doesn't help

56:08
anyone, especially in our sort of Westernized world, is that it's like, oh yeah, well, you just need to get up and grow up and get a job and move on with it and life will just figure it out for you. And it's just not that simple, of course, obviously. And, but, but we don't actually tell young people that we hurl them into school. We expect them to know what they're meant to be doing with their lives at 18, which is just like.

56:37
crazy. And, you know, I was doing a Broadway show at 18, right? Like, sure, in the like, you're saying quote unquote, living the dream that we were kind of talking about what Randy was experiencing even. And I was like, is this what I want to be doing? You know, so I just think it's insane to expect anyone to feel any of those things in a solidified way it being forced, you know, like

57:08
And we don't do any, we don't do any, we don't lend a real helping hand to young people to really, I mean, unless they just have the resources or the people around them that are going, hey, so like, it's okay if you don't have it all figured out or it's okay if you just wanna maybe get like some kind of generalized degree that way you can maybe go do something for a couple of years and then you figure it out or.

57:38
Hey, maybe you just want to go to tradesman school. Maybe college isn't for you. You know, like we've gotten into this vortex of capitalist life where it's like, oh, well, you must be the biggest, greatest, bestest thing in the whole world. And if you're not, you're a failure. And that to me is the failure because we're no longer telling people that they get to be successful for whatever they're doing. And they should be able to define it as well.

58:08
Right. And for me, I think that was a big, that was a big part of my life shift that I experienced with what happened. That was the most pivotal part of the life shift of when all of that happened with all of the songwriting stuff was that until that point, you know, there were, there's always the naysayers, right? But until that point.

58:38
I felt that I didn't have the tools to go into battle, to be able to say, no, you're wrong. This is what I'm actually doing now. Because until then it was like, oh, well, she's songwriting, but she was really that Broadway girl. I have no problem with that Broadway girl. I love her. She's a beautiful young spirit that led me to a million beautiful people and places and still does.

59:08
and I wouldn't trade her for anything in the world, but it isn't really who I am. It was a moment of who I was. And I finally had the infrastructure to be like, nope, that was another thing and this is really what it is now. And it was a tremendous life shift. It was like, I felt like I, you know, I felt like it improved my anxiety, honestly.

59:34
I can imagine and maybe I'm just putting this in you because I'm playing me right now as a podcaster, but was there, what part of you as you were writing these songs and singing them yourself and people telling you can only, only you can sing them, did you feel like at any point you were kind of like just trying to like faking it until you get to that point? And then eventually it was like, well, here it is. You're allowed to do it now. I mean, kind of. There was a part of me that was like, well, I just have to do what I need to do.

01:00:04
to get to the place where I need to be. And, you know, that was also like, I wasn't willing to compromise on everything, you know? Well, that's good. But I was like, I'll do what I need to do to do what I need to do, you know? But then you got that, and then they gave you the confidence, and now you are, I don't know if you see yourself this way, but with helping other songwriters, are you the Neil? Are you?

01:00:32
helping these people in that way that they see you as like, oh wow, because you've done the work. You've done just like Neil did, he put in the work, he did, his name was Neil, right? I'm not saying the wrong name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, you're right. And you know, he put in that work, and then you, when you needed the guidance, he gave it to you. And I think, you know, in some, if we're thinking in the universe here, maybe his passing allowed you to do what you did, because...

01:01:00
Now, he knew you were ready to take on those responsibilities yourself and build that up. You got there. Now, you're helping other people in the same way, and you'll let them fly when they're ready to go. It's just a nice story because so many people give up. You have this passion as a kid, you pounded the pavement in Nashville, you showed your parents and made them help you move to LA, and then you-

01:01:29
audition for a show that you thought, okay, I'm going to do the workshop for, I'm going to do off-Broadway, and then it got a bazillion Tony nominations and wins. Then you just made your path and now you get to do, hopefully, what you like to do and help other people in that sense. Hopefully, people listening are inspired by the story of, I see it as perseverance and then also pushing through until you

01:01:58
make that mark and now you are who you are, right? Before you're like, I'm working towards this, I'm working toward this. And now you're probably like, I am this. Yeah, I mean, I definitely have days like anybody does where you're like, what the hell's going on? But yes, but I'm not confused on what I'm doing here. Yeah, you feel directed? Would you say that you feel that you're in the right direction? You're in the space that you wanna be in?

01:02:27
Do you feel like you are making a mark in the world? I do feel that. The thing that I've always wanted to do is be able to do things that I felt that could, whatever the impact was, was truly tangible. Especially since I moved back home, I'm incredibly invested in my community here and I'm very, very, very involved. Not that the global scheme of things doesn't matter.

01:02:55
Community really matters and I'm so invested here. As a final thought, what I was gonna say was to what you were saying was, you know, what you were just saying of keeping going. I read this article many years ago in Vogue, Angelina Jolie was like on the cover. She's never been on a cover before. Never.

01:03:19
She was on the cover and it was like her art, you know, the article that goes along with when you're on the cover of the magazine thing. And part of the question that had been asked to her was why do you think you're so successful? There were all of these other, you know, young women in Hollywood when you were coming up at the same time.

01:03:47
And you know, but you are the one that is, that's where you are. And her response was, I think that I'm here because I'm still doing it. Which I think is a very her statement to make, probably anyways, but her logic was like, I mean, if you go and you look at a bunch of those names you've mentioned.

01:04:16
they're not even acting anymore. And so like if they were acting, they probably would be really famous, but they're not even acting anymore. So they're not or whatever, you know? But I mean, I think the reason I'm still here is because I'm still here. Yeah, you're still doing your thing. I just kept doing it and that always really stuck with me. And you know, and I think it's really hard to do anything.

01:04:46
As a true final, final thought, I think it's really hard to do anything, no matter what it is you choose to do with your life, not just creatively, you know, but whatever it is you choose to do in your life. Like it is so incredibly hard to wake up every day and be like, yes, I will be productive and do anything, because I don't know that 90% of the time, especially like, you know, you're just, everybody's doing their thing and living their lives. People are tired. People are...

01:05:16
anxious, people are depressed, people are whatever, you know, it's like there's so many things going on in the world around all of us all the time. And so to just be able to keep going at anything should already be enough of the accomplishment. That's true. Beyond, beyond the flashing lights and glimmering whatever, just the

01:05:45
ability to stay the course and follow through should be enough of a mark. To be celebrated, yeah. I like to kind of end or wrap up the conversations with the question, and I'm wondering if knowing all the things that you've done since that moment when you were given that break the wall moment.

01:06:15
Is there anything you could say to that girl the day before that happened? Uh... Yeah. I would probably say to her...

01:06:29
Quit doubting yourself. Cause that's for sure, and that's a lot of people. Second guessing things. The biggest, yeah, being like, uh.

01:06:43
I think we're taught to do that. Yeah. Not even necessarily even like, I knew that I had the ability. I knew that I did deep inside. I think I knew I had the ability.

01:07:02
you know, but the self doubt and was always just like, you know, yeah, but like, are you are you can you are you are you really able? Are you able to really follow through to you know, like, and that self doubt can keep you from even putting yourself out there. You know, because you just because the rejection is

01:07:31
Everywhere? Less than ideal. And it's part of the game. I think it's part of that, right? And I think we could all do with a little less self-doubt. And in anything that we're doing, like you said, and just doing anything, a lot of us will second guess and self-doubt will creep in. But anyway, I appreciate you sharing your story. We'll definitely link them to your MySpace page.

01:07:59
Okay. Yeah, definitely. It's for sure still up and running. Do you know the login? Oh my god. They're probably still there at some point. So I mean, I don't even know. Yeah, we'll link them to whatever you want them to come to and connect with you and see your journey and this new journey that you're on as part of this new record label or this record label in your local area. And they can connect with you. I appreciate you. I feel like we're old friends now. So

01:08:29
Thank you for being a part of this and thank you to Randy for connecting us. Yeah, I feel the same way. I've really enjoyed the opportunity to share my story. I really appreciate you creating a space where people can find support to be seen in their emotional experiences based on what you have been through because, you know, again, especially what you went through from the time you were so young.

01:08:59
It's really hard to keep going. And you've done a tremendous thing, Matt. So, yeah. Thank you. I like to say that each of these episodes is healing a little part of that eight-year-old kid that's life was shattered. And I feel really good in this 42-year-old version of me. It's been a long journey. And people like you and the other guests on my show just opening up and sharing like,

01:09:26
It's not all pretty, it's not all sunshine and rainbows. In fact, most of the time it's not, and that's okay because this is a human experience. I hope that someone listening to every episode finds something in it that they can connect with and resonate with. So thank you for being a part and putting that out there for whoever's listening right now. For those of you listening, if you're enjoying this, please take a moment to rate the show. Five stars would be lovely and-

01:09:55
write something nice on Apple Podcasts. And with that, we will see you next week with a brand new episode of the Life Shift Podcast. Thanks, Lolo. Thank you.

01:10:16
For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com