Embracing Change: How Loss Became a Catalyst for Self-Discovery for Caren Paskel

Caren Paskel
00:00:00

I think having gone through watching him thinking that he was gonna die, like that whole thing and a whole, like a brain, like a, a surgery going into his brain that being removed, and then the doctors, the seizure meds, all of the problems that, that happened it within the year and then it strengthened our relationship and it's. We had a lot to deal with.

So I think that I was more prepared because I had the year, but I still was thinking, how am I gonna live without this person? I thought that often, like, what am I gonna do without him?

Matt Gilhooly
00:00:44

Today's guest is Caren Paskel and we had such a wonderful conversation despite the heavy topic that we were talking about. And this really centers around her journey through losing her late husband to brain cancer and how that changed her life.

But it really starts out with her finding like this most perfect person for her, someone that let her find herself through his inspirational way of walking through life. And so you'll get to hear all this in, in much more eloquent ways when she says it.

But I, I loved how she felt about this relationship and how it was really this once in a lifetime thing.

But this loss really catalyzed her journey of self discovery and empowerment and really realized how much she was doing for herself, which then just kind of snowballed into this more beautiful self belief way of living. So this was really a transformative experience for her and one that maybe would have happened differently had this tragic experience not happened.

But maybe not. And so we talk about that as well. And you know me, I talk about that pretty often in some of these episodes.

So, you know, we really talk about embracing adversity, the power of self belief, and finding joy and purpose even in the face of loss.

She sent such a kind email after our conversation just saying that, you know, she's been on a lot of different podcasts and this particular one, the Life Shift most aligned with her and felt really natural in the questions that I asked her. And that's just such a compliment. So thank you, Karen, for sending that wonderful email.

I hope you all feel inspired after listening to Karen's story.

There are very hard parts and there are very real and raw parts of her story, but at the end, she really brings all of it together on how we can kind of find meaning in some of these really tragic moments. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Karen Pascal.

I'm Matt Gilhooley, and this is the Life Shift Candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever. Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Life Shift podcast. I am Here with Karen. Hello, Karen.

Caren Paskel
00:03:12

Hello, how are you? Thank you for having me.

Matt Gilhooly
00:03:14

Well, thank you for wanting to be a part of the Life Shift podcast. It has been quite a journey for my. If anyone's new listening, this show really stems from my own personal experience.

When I was a kid, my mom was killed in a motorcycle accident.

And at that moment, when my dad sat me down and he had to tell me that my mom had died, everything that was ever written for my life changed in that moment. And this was the late 80s and early 90s, so people weren't really talking about grief or how to recover or anything like that.

So I kept it all inside. But all the while I was like, do other people have these line in the sand moments in which from one moment to the next, everything is different?

And it turns out we have many of them. As we grow up, we go through lots of Life Shift moments.

And I've had this opportunity to Talk to over 165 people now about these journeys, and it's just been such a unexpected, fulfilling, healing journey. So thank you for being a part of my healing journey by sharing your story today.

Caren Paskel
00:04:17

Absolutely. And thank you for being a part of mine.

Matt Gilhooly
00:04:21

I'll tell you, this is. I.

I never expected to meet so many strangers and have deep conversations that maybe growing up, I felt like I had to shy away from talking about topics or asking questions that maybe I was really curious about, but sound a little terrible coming out of my mouth. And so it's just. It's. It's just really a nice sign of humanity that, like, we have so much more in common than what separates us.

And I'm sure you realize that in your journeys as well.

Caren Paskel
00:04:53

Absolutely. I. I always say, just show up in your glory and share your story. And I'm looking for houses right now. I'm moving to Colorado and I live in Detroit.

And this is a big move for me for many reasons, but every time I reach out about a house or a rental, I share my story. I just say I lost my husband and he died in the home that I live in. And it's been four years, and I'm. I'm ready finally to. To move.

We were never meant to stay in this home. It was part of his real estate business. We were meant to live and sell, and we weren't able to do that. And I've had an incredible ride in this house.

It's been. It has been so amazing what has occurred in this house for me and for me and my husband.

But every time I share this story, about that, you wouldn't believe the response. It's not just. It's the other person starts to share their story and it's similar.

Like they lost someone too, or I even have heard the same brain cancer. How does that happen? But I would have never known and connected unless I was just honest about what was really going on.

And then you connect to people and that is really, I believe, a huge part of healing and absolutely necessary for grief. And you're right, most people, especially if you're a child, they don't know how to encourage that sharing.

So I'm sure a lot of the grief was repressed at a young age and then. But now for you, it's so beautiful that you get to meet new people and share life shifts in common and you use it now for positive. Right.

Matt Gilhooly
00:06:44

I certainly try. And to your point, like sharing is so hard at first until you start doing it and then it feels like a nice release.

It feels like a connection to other people. Like you say when you get that response. And I think more people are leaning into it, I would hope nowadays compared to maybe even 10 years ago.

I think we're just like more vocal about like today sucks, you know, and like that's okay.

Caren Paskel
00:07:13

Yeah. I think that you are correct. And it's a practice. Sharing is a practice.

And I was very young, my family, there was like most families, lots of addictions. And when I was very young, I would go to Al anon meetings and 12 step programs for children of alcoholic parents. And I spoke, I shared.

So I that experience for me and going with my brother also to meetings, I got really good at it at a young age and I'm grateful for that. I have to say, yeah, as.

Matt Gilhooly
00:07:54

As crappy as that experience is, like just in general, that you have to go to it. Like there's such a silver lining in it probably as an adult, because you can all that. You get to build on that from such a young age.

Whereas a lot of us are starting like in our 30s and 40s, like really starting to share our stories and put it out there. So like, it's one of these weird moments where we look at these hard, hard situations and we find these silver linings.

And I think that comes with awareness, self awareness and reflection and those kind of things. But it's always a weird thing to say out loud.

Caren Paskel
00:08:31

I know, right? And when you do though, it's. It is a relief.

And when you find people to talk to who have had a similar experience and find, I always say, finding the blessings in disguise because you don't really see it in plain sight. But what you are able to grow through, I call it, versus go through, that's the, A lot of the times that's the blessing and the life shift.

What, let's say a challenge or a tragedy or a loss can shift you.

I was just talking to a woman about it who lost her husband and she was saying that she really had a spiritual awakening through a loss that, I mean, she wouldn't have had without it. So no, we're not, we're not saying the, the person. People ask me this all the time.

I still can't understand how you're saying it's a blessing that your husband died. I said, because I'm not saying that. I'm not saying it's a blessing that my husband, if I could do anything to get him back, I would.

And I miss him every day. The blessing is what I chose to do with that and how I chose to thrive over merely just survive and not be a victim, but use this to benefit others.

How to share and talk about it, how I move through it. And also to keep him alive, I get to talk about him. I wrote about him. That came out of a loss. I never, I was never going to write a book.

I didn't really care about writing a book. I never even had that desire. And that motivated me to share my story to others. I knew it would help, but also it shares his story.

So now his story and our story is out in a book and a book is a legacy. So I feel like it is what you can do with something that you would rather not have had happened, that can, it can make or break you.

And you get to decide how, how you're going to navigate that. And, and that's the blessing. That's really the blessing.

Matt Gilhooly
00:10:39

Well, you say it in a much more beautiful way than I do. I can never find like the right words because people will ask something like, would you go back and change history?

And I'm like, like, and make your mom not go on that trip. And I'm thinking, well, yes, but also I'm this 40 something year old person now and I would not be this version of myself had she not died.

Had I not struggled to grieve her for 20 years, had I not like all those things made me this version, we wouldn't be having this conversation. So it's hard, it's like really hard for me to go like, well, yes and no, because I don't know what life would be like otherwise. So.

But you said it much, much more eloquently because you're a writer, you know. But we've already shared a little bit of your story.

But before we get into the, the details, maybe you can just tell us who you are right now besides looking for a place in Colorado.

Caren Paskel
00:11:35

I am an author, I am a speaker and I am a non profit founder, which is really exciting because I just launched a self caregiving program and I am empowering caregivers to practice self care and also sending them my book, like shipping it to their door. So that's, that's, that's what I'm very passionate about. It's so fulfilling to, to find really who I'm serving.

And it's been overwhelming ever since I decided that I'm, I was a caregiver, I wasn't the cancer patient. So it made more sense for me to share my story to caregivers and people who've lost someone.

But I'm always open the group up to patients because some of them are caregiving themselves and they want the self care resources and practices that I'm providing. So this has been really a journey. And before I got into the nonprofit I was mentoring people and coaching and I still do a little bit less.

I have just a few clients because it does take a lot of time and energy. So as I go into speaking and more writing of my books and all, what that takes with the nonprofit, I love, I love guiding people.

So if it's really aligned, a lot of people come to me who have lost someone and, or they're wanting to really have the power of self belief to make a huge shift in their life, like a career shift in their 30s, 40s, 50s. I even have clients sometimes or 60s or close to 70 where they're looking for purpose, they're looking for fulfillment, they have everything.

But it's like they're really not, they don't feel like they have a meaningful life.

So that's, that's just a joy and that was a wonderful pivot because I did own yoga studios and that's one of the big shifts that I'll be that I'll be sharing that that happened where I closed them down because of the life circumstance that I was in and the world circumstance. But the yoga studios was great. I became an owner, a business owner. That was my gosh, so much I learned, I really learned a lot.

And I think that's what catapulted me into saying, you know what, I can close these down and I can actually just be remote. And that gives Me more ability to move around and more freedom. And so that was very hard for me. But I believed in myself and I recreated myself.

By the way, I recreate myself every day. It's called transformation. And I love sharing that with people. How. How we. We can.

Matt Gilhooly
00:14:30

Have you always been that way? I mean, it sounds like you grew up in a. In situations which were really challenging. Do you think those informed that or were you always kind of this.

Caren Paskel
00:14:39

I was. I was not. I was not this butterfly that. You see. I. I was actually so introverted and I didn't want to. I didn't have many friends.

I wanted to be at home all the time. I was a homebody introvert. Stick me in front of the TV with my thumb in my mouth, like, that's. But I was very.

Matt Gilhooly
00:15:02

Is it because of your situation?

Caren Paskel
00:15:04

I don't know. I was really creative. I just. I think my creative nature. I tended to go inside, so I wasn't the kid who wanted to play in the playground.

I wanted to create things. I wanted to draw. And that's usually a solo thing I was more into. I did end up going to art school, which was really wonderful.

And over time, I started to become more social at school and enjoy people more. But it wasn't until my husband that I really got out of my bubble, in my shell and even in a yoga studio.

I mean, I could turn on and teach a great class, but it was always like, when am I gonna get home to my isolated spot? And I love home. I really do now. But I don't feel that way anymore.

And I believe that I decided if I want to make an impact in the world, I can't be that old version of myself that isn't going to serve the masses. It isn't going to serve my ability to be visible and be seen. And so I just decided to become someone else. And I, like, changed my personality.

I can't. I no longer identify with the younger version of myself. But it's beautiful and it's wonderful. And she grew into this.

So I feel like we have this power to ask ourselves, is this part of me serving who I really choose to be? And I do want to make an impact and I want to help as many people as possible.

And so staying at home and, you know, being quiet and hiding and staying small isn't. Isn't going to do that. And so now I really just enjoy the opposite. But I still enjoy spending time by myself. I go out alone all the time.

I'm not afraid to be by myself. That's that's the great part about being an introvert. I don't need to have anybody around and I can have an amazing time.

People ask me all the time, you know, I wish I could go out on a date by myself like you do they feel uncomfortable. I. Yes, you can. But also I. It's taken time. Like I'm used to it. So you kind of have to just do it and then it feels like you said, it feels awkward.

It's like sharing your story. What about when you started this podcast? I'm sure it wasn't just like the first time was like, yeah, right.

Matt Gilhooly
00:17:40

Yeah. No, I, I think it's. I, I think a lot of people can relate to that. Do you find. Where do you, where do you get where your recharge. Is it still at home?

Do you still recharge at home or is it when you're in a big group of people? Has that changed?

Caren Paskel
00:17:54

I. My recharge my. I call it emptying. In my whole. We have a community and we share in this community line. It's called Marco Polo. It's.

I don't know if you've heard of the app.

Matt Gilhooly
00:18:06

I've heard of it. Yeah.

Caren Paskel
00:18:07

Really cool. So you can make these videos and you know, I did it because most of the people I work with, they're hiders. They hide out and they're not as visible.

And it's, it's when you show up and you're visible even in a smaller group, you get used to it. You practice seeing yourself and speaking and being authentic, all these things. So it's been really, really helpful.

And it's a way of emptying your cup. Meaning like some people's cup gets full from being with a lot of people. Some people cup, you know, get empty that way.

For me, it's usually being out in nature, doing yoga, meditating. My morning routine is like five hours long. It's amazing. It starts at 4:30 in the morning. And it's just.

I have meditation affirmations, my empowering life script. I sit by the fire. I have my morning protein and my hydration and then I have movement. I often write. It's very. I've. I've.

I believe that I am worthy of this time because then when I meet and greet anybody, my cup is so empty. I just can serve and give and give and give. So I do recharge that way. But I can also recharge with people. It just depends what we're doing.

If it's out to dinner. I love like I'm A. I'm a. I don't really drink, but I call myself a whiner and a diner because I just love food and sitting and having quality.

So that in conversation, that empties my cup. And when I'm with people and we're doing activities, if we're, you know, doing a sport activity or something like that, then that empties my cup too.

So I can recharge with other people. It just depends what I'm. What I'm doing when I'm doing. Leading a mastermind, that. That takes a lot of focus or, you know, where I.

I feel that it doesn't stress me out and drain me, but I do need to recharge after that because of the amount of energy that I'm. That I'm giving in that way.

Matt Gilhooly
00:20:19

Yeah, no, that makes sense. And. And it all comes back to how we are taking care of ourselves in a way, like.

So you still have that younger version of Karen in a way of, like, that need to. To do the things that serve you in a way. I think that's important to recognize, too. I think sometimes it's. I don't know.

I think we think of that younger version and we're like, oh, she was going home and by herself. But it's not. It's like you were finding the spaces that were charging you and making you feel as alive as you could.

Part of me thinks, I wonder if that version of you had a more happy childhood of some sort. I mean, I'm making assumptions here because you said you went to those meetings, but assuming, like, everything was perfect at home.

I wonder if that child would have a different experience, you know, like.

Caren Paskel
00:21:09

Yeah, I don't know.

Matt Gilhooly
00:21:10

Themselves.

Caren Paskel
00:21:10

There was so much love in my house, so it was. It was like a normal dysfunctional home, but nothing. I don't remember. Like, I mean, I do remember a lot of arguing. There was that stress.

I had an older brother and sister, and they were. They were wild. I was like eight and 10 years younger, so I was this little baby. So I think because there was so much commotion, I was.

They called me the little pitcher with big ears. You know, I just sat and observed with the big eyes and ears and heard everything. And so it was a little hectic, so I just stayed quiet.

And I was happy staying quiet. But I. It's funny because someone said something today.

She shared on one of my lines was her birthday, and she just was grateful for being alive and being here. And she mentioned that she wished she could have told her younger self what she knows now.

And I said, it's similar to kind of what we're talking about. You. You do. But if you. If you really think about it, you got to hear because of who you were. And so you had to go through these things.

And I said they were all perfect and they were all beautiful, even though it might not have felt that way, even if you had pain and struggle. That's. That's what got you here.

And when I was little, I figured out sucking my thumb, watching tv, being with my blankie, that was all I knew that could comfort me at the time. I'm glad I figured that out. When I was young and so that I became resourceful, I. I learned how to take care of myself.

Now I know more ways, and that's. That's great. But I couldn't have known that when I was that age.

Matt Gilhooly
00:22:56

No, I. I'm still stuck on the five hours in the morning that you tend to yourself. That's like, it's so beautiful. Like, like also me.

This type A is like, wow, that's a lot. That's a lot things in a list to do. But no, that's. That's awesome.

Caren Paskel
00:23:11

Doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't have to. Like, it's just whatever. I'm inspired. Sometimes it's journaling. Sometimes. Yeah. It's not like, oh my God, it's regimented.

It's just. I wanted. I didn't want to r morning routine and I felt like I was rushing, like, oh, I only have this.

And I was like, no, I'm not taking clients until this whole, like, until I've just stretched it and I. I've included even my dog walk. Like, it's all a part of good.

Matt Gilhooly
00:23:38

I think that's healthy. I think it's beautiful. I think a lot of people should do it. They might not, but they should.

But maybe you can kind of paint the picture of your life leading up to kind of your. Your husband's diagnosis or passing or how that really shifted you into this version. It sounds like you were kind of making your way there.

Caren Paskel
00:23:57

Yes, but. Yes. So I met him, and he was just this determined young man. And I could tell right away he had something that I didn't have.

And it was like this, this magnetizing, just self confidence and self belief. I saw it immediately, and I knew I wanted to be around it. It was like, oh, if I can be near that, then I can catch some of that. And I did.

I really did. And that he. He helped me believe that I could leave my current job of 11 years working for my brother.

It was a beautiful experience of teaching yoga at many different studios, leading trainings, being a headteacher. It was a dream job. But there was a disagreement with the owners, silent partners, they wanted to change franchise, do all these things.

So David, my husband was, you can open your own studio. You can do this. And I was like, I don't. What do you mean? I, I don't know how to open a studio. I don't even.

And he's like, oh, no one knows what they're. That's how he taught. Like no one knows. You just do it and you take a risk and maybe you'll lose some money. Big deal. Lots of businesses do.

But you'll be fine. You have a following, your product. So I just, I did it and he helped me. So I, yes, I was becoming who I am. Absolutely, for sure.

And we were together, we really were this, this power couple. He was starting his business, I was doing my business. It was, it was a, it was a fantasy dream.

We didn't want kids and we just, we had a really empowering relationship and it was a life shift.

When he was diagnosed because it was so out of the blue and because he had a seizure and I, and there was nothing leading up prior to that that would, we would have expected or suspected anything was wrong with him health wise. So it's just completely out of the blue. Grand mal seizure and it was a doozy. Like, I mean I thought he was joking at first.

I was in shock and then fell to the floor out like almost not breathing. And so he must have, he was £200, so he must have hit himself. He was bleeding in his nose. All this stuff was going on.

So I thought he was just dying in front of me and I don't know how. I had my phone in my hand and I'm not a great technological person. So in shock, I was able to call 91 1. That was a miracle. And they came.

By the time they came, he had consciousness. We ended up finding out it was a brain tumor. And after he got the first surgery it was brain cancer, but it wasn't, it didn't sound so serious.

It was like, we're not going to do any treatment, we're just going to get MRIs. And they didn't really give us the full scope. But we were just thinking this isn't that that big of a deal.

I mean we didn't want to think of it as a big deal. He was sub 30 and so we were just a year into a year into our marriage and we just moved into our home. So that was a life shift.

But it was almost as if like he was getting so much better, that yes, we made huge changes. Yes, we reevaluated ourselves in our life. And I chose to close one of my studios at the time, not. And not sign a third lease and stuff like that.

We made different decisions and. But it wasn't until around December we had decided we were moving. We. We were doing the two year. There's the two year real estate plan.

And so we were moving, but he had this urge to go on a big trip. And so we went away and we went to Amsterdam, South Africa and Paris. It was supposed to be five weeks, most of the time in South Africa.

So right before we went out of town, he was not feeling very well. He was having some seizure symptoms, but he was trying to wean off his seizure medication, so we thought it was that.

Matt Gilhooly
00:28:13

And how long was this after the seizure?

Caren Paskel
00:28:16

Well, it was a year after. So he had had one other seizure because he went off the medication. And then he wanted to keep trying because it slowed him down.

And this guy was a go, go, go, do, do, do, conquer the world type of person. So feeling slow and tired, he. He had a hard time with that. So he was trying to.

And the MRIs kept turning up better and better and better, but he didn't. He had an MRI scheduled. And since he was feeling a little off, he asked.

I said, please ask the doctor because if you can wait on this mri, don't just wait, just ask him. And he said, look, I'm going away for a month. Can I get the MRI when I get back? And the doctor said, yeah, that's okay. He didn't want to know.

My husband didn't want to know. If there was any regrowth, we would not have gone on that trip. So he just stayed in ignorance because he wanted to live a quality life.

And I didn't blame him. And I honored that. So we went on this trip and the trip changed me for sure. I became. I had to navigate the entire thing. He.

He lost sensation in the right side of his body pretty much the whole trip. He could not drive. I learned how to drive a stick shift. He had to teach me up a narrow, windy road. I was so stressed out. I was driving everywhere.

And this. I don't know how we made it. Just navigating, which I'm not great at. He did all those things, so I had to.

That's when I say it had become some, like, I just had to just, okay, Karen, you're just going to do this. You're just going to be this person. And I did it. And it was horribly stressful, but also amazing at the same time because we had a great trip.

It got really bad though, at the end. And he did end up having a seizure. I was scared to death. We're so far away. And he would not go to the hospital.

We ended up leaving and early and calling it short. It was very scary. So this is leading up to. So it's been one year since he's had the seizure and the surgery and the diagnosis.

Matt Gilhooly
00:30:31

He said he was pretty young too.

Caren Paskel
00:30:33

Yes, he's 29 at the time, 28 when he got diagnosed. So I think he might have been 29. Cause it was a year later. And we came home to a house that was not livable.

It was under construction in the middle of the winter. We went into like a cloud of dust and plaster. My dog, one of my dogs was not fed well, not taken care of. Looked like a skeleton.

I almost had a heart attack. I bet the stove wasn't working. Like boxes. Everything was in boxes. And he wasn't well. So he had to get an mri.

And the MRI showed a tumor grew back, same size. But this was bad news because the tumor that he first had had to have been slow growing because it was only a grade one and it took this long, right?

So then in one year, a tumor grows back. That's never a good sign. Same size, orange size tumor, same spot.

So we had to wait to get the results, but we got the results and it was, I think before the new year.

And I just remember that he and his brother Daniel came up the stairs and I was sitting in bed and they looked at me and they said, we just got off the phone with Dr. Lee and we have the results. And they just said, it's a grade four glioblastoma.

So the reason I lost my breath is because David's best friend, his mom died of glioblastoma. And so he recognized that this could possibly be this early on in the first seizure. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no.

And so we all knew what that was and what that meant. And I just. It's like probably a feeling that you had similar. I mean, you're. You just sink. I just sunk. Like it just.

You feel it in your core and you're just. It's just your belly drops. And I felt like I couldn't take a breath in that moment. Like I just it it for Me. That was the worst thing that could ever.

Like, you're like, if the worst, what would be the worst news? That would be it. And so the worst news happened. It happened to me. It happened to him. And that shifted me for. That was more than the seizure.

That was more than any of this. It was like the. The reality that.

Matt Gilhooly
00:33:29

I was just gonna say that.

Caren Paskel
00:33:30

Yeah, yeah, it's. They tell you. They. They point blank, say 9 to 6 to like, 12 months or 9 to 12 months with radiation and chemo. So it's like a death sentence almost.

When they. When they tell you the news, they don't say there's nothing hopeful. That they say it's like, oh, you're. You're gonna.

And I'm like, why would anyone go get treatment if they're just. And then. Well, there are rare cases. Some people survive, and then some people survive. It's 5% who survive a year or two. Less and less.

David was adamant about finding people who survived. And he truly believed. And I believed with him. I did, because I didn't want to pull him down or myself. And he was alive right then. So that.

I mean, it just was this moment where it's like, okay, I thought I was gonna have this person in my life. He's 12 years younger than me. So I'm thinking this is like forever, and I'm gonna go first. And we just started.

So our lives were just beginning together. And now you're telling me this person who's the love of my life, who's not even 30 years old, may die. And so that just.

That just hit me, and I had to, like, in that moment, really become.

And that's why I say not like it was a different version of me that had to emerge to be able to handle this with grace and for him, because he wouldn't stand it if I was a mess and fell apart. So I didn't have to hold it in, believe me. I found my outlets and meltdowns, and a lot of it was in private, and a lot of it was.

I had so much support, but I had to be strong for him because that's what he asked. And I'm his wife, and I'm here. My vows were, I am here to be the best wife I can be and give you what you need in sickness and health.

And this is what he needed.

But that changed me, because to be that strong, I really had to believe in myself, that I could take care of myself, that I could take care of him, that I could take care of the House, that I could take care of business and that I would be okay if he didn't survive. I mean, I had to come to terms with that immediately, and I didn't. That's why he shifted me so much, because I didn't really have to do it before.

It was like, he's getting better and better and better. And this was like. We just thought it was over. In fact, the last.

Not the last mri, but the one before, the one that showed the tumor, they told us that it looked like there was only scar tissue left, so it seemed as if there was no tumor. And then poof. Like, boom. Everything changed. And mind you, the timing of this was like home under construction.

He gets brain cancer, terminal diagnosis, and just a few months later, we have a global pandemic. My studio shuts down. So it was like. It's like a series of unfortunate events.

But I turned everything around and I made the best out of every circumstance that I could have. We did together. We both did. It was like we didn't focus on the worst. We focus on what can we do and what we do have. And that was the miracle.

Matt Gilhooly
00:37:21

I mean, I'm sorry that you faced all those things because I. I feel you when you get that news. You said it might feel like I did as an 8 year old. I don't think you understand. I don't. I don't.

I think as you're right, whatever age you were, you know what all of that means. You know that your life is forever changed, whether this goes in a good direction or a bad direction.

You know how your life is going to shift in a way that you weren't anticipating. And.

And part of me wonders in that interim, when you found out the news and you knew you had to be strong for him because that's what he wanted of you. Did you. Did you. Were you able to just switch it on or was. Do you feel like you were faking it until it felt right? Like, because I.

I don't know how I go from despair and then be like, nope, pull up my. My big boy pants and, you know, kind of move on. So was there were. There were these moments of like, how do I do this? I don't know how to do.

I'm just gonna fake it until I can make it kind of thing.

Caren Paskel
00:38:28

The year, I think having gone through, watching him thinking that he was going to die, like, that whole thing and a whole, like a brain, like a. A surgery going into his brain, that being removed, and then the doctors, the seizure meds, all of the problems that.

That happened it within the year and then it strengthened our relationship and it's. We had a lot to deal with. So I think that I was more prepared because I had the year.

But I still was thinking, how am I going to live without this person? I thought that often, like, what am I going to do without him? But I was 12 years older than him. I met him and he always let me know this.

He was like, one of the reasons I fell in love with you is because he said you had your shit together. Like, you. You had a job and you had your own place and you had dogs and you just, you had a life. So that's what I always remember is, wait, my.

My life isn't a wife. That's something I became and it's wonderful. But this relationship is not what defines me. And I. I know who I am. Plus, I am a very spiritual person.

I've been on a spiritual path for years. So I started yoga when I was 16 because my mom knew I had panic attacks in high school. And she just knew it would be good for me. I loved it.

I connected with myself in a deeper way that led me on a journey. I started teaching without any training. Then I took training. Then I became very open to why am I having these epiphanies on my yoga mat?

And then one day I got introduced to the philosophy that changed me forever. Because I started to learn these higher values, these universal laws that are not exposed in, you know, traditional education.

That is what I love to teach and educate on and mentor. That's what I've written in my book, in a version that's through my personality. So I think people can maybe understand it's more accessible.

But because I had all these teachings, I don't see death as a horrible thing at all. I understand that death is a passage, it's a change. And that energy cannot be created or destroyed.

So I think with all these teachings and understandings, and also that everyone has their time. And I will share this. I don't. I don't think I've written this in a book. I don't know if I've shared this publicly. So here we go.

I had a deep sense like that. I would never have admitted that David's life may be cut short because of the gigantic desires that he had to change the world.

It was like he couldn't sleep. He couldn't. He just. He was one of those people where like every single second he wanted to change something. It could have been.

Matt Gilhooly
00:41:55

Now we're going to Hard.

Caren Paskel
00:41:56

Yeah. Yes, it was. It was. And he lived so hard. And I was like, how can one keep this up? That's. That was a thought.

And because I understand the philosophy of. And the theory of reincarnation, I just thought like, maybe he's. He's just. At some point he won't be able to fulfill these desires.

And reincarnation is when your body can no longer fulfill the desires or when you know your desires can't be fulfilled in the body that you have, you go on to the next body. So I don't talk about that because people might be like, what is she talking about? But no, you know, it's. Right. So I thought. I thought that.

So it wasn't a shock, because if I really thought about it was like, okay, I think that this is either teaching him a lesson or he's ready for the next life.

Matt Gilhooly
00:42:51

It's a weird space though, right? Because I feel like it's. It is a shock, but it's also like, as you describe, not a shock.

Caren Paskel
00:42:57

Because you were like, want it to be happening. You know, no one wants to lose their loved one, but. But there was some sort of acceptance, like, I'm not in control here.

Matt Gilhooly
00:43:08

Right. That's important. But it's. Does it make it hard, though, if he's so like, what did he. Did he eventually come to the point in which he accepted it?

Or was he like, we gotta. Because I think that makes it hard when. When it was someone else wants you to feel a certain way, but yet you kind of know reality in your sense.

And what you know. Did you encounter that?

Caren Paskel
00:43:35

Yeah, this is so. I could not share that with him. He. Because he wanted to live. He just wanted to live too bad and too hard.

And I remember this one day he was in our bathroom and he was just like looking in the mirror and he came out to me and he said, I decided that I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna live and I'm not gonna die. And I just said, okay. I went along with. Because who am I to say this is your journey? And I just respected it.

I needed to know for myself, so I had peace. But he needed to figure things out for himself. And he did not come to terms with dying until our last outing. It was our third year.

We made it to our third year wedding anniversary. And he made it out. I don't know how. He was barely walking, barely talking.

We went to our favorite place and he still could speak and I could understand him at this point. And he looked at me and he had tears, which he did not cry often. And he gave me this speech. It was a goodbye speech.

And I was not expecting this, so I just sat there, like, speechless. And he basically said, and I write about in my book, too, that he was okay to die because he was so proud of me, because I was kicking ass.

I reinvented. I rein. Created my business and he watched me do it. And I did this program to get my program online, and people signed up for it.

He watched me make more money in a month than I had in like a year at the yoga studio. So he saw me transform. And he knew he had a part in it, a big part. So he was telling me, you're gonna be okay, and I'm gonna be okay now to die.

Because I thought I was here to change the whole world. And I knew that I would help a lot of people, but. And you're. He said, you're so amazing, always.

I always thought you were just amazing and incredible, but I've never seen this, that you. You were able to do this. And I never expected that you. That I was gonna help you.

I didn't know you were gonna be the person that was gonna be changed from me. And so that was a moment where I was like. I felt like I did it. I. I didn't realize that I was actually giving him this gift.

And I was feeling like, oh, my God. I. Believing in myself was the greatest gift I could have given my husband. He was. Found the peace to say, I'm good.

You're going to go out there, you're going to live this great life. And I. I did that. I inspired you to do that. All that I've gone through is worth it.

And so we just had this incredible moment and it really was his end. It wasn't long after that because that was September and that was our wedding anniversary and he died in October.

So when it was finally in, when he was in hospice and he just. He literally could not speak. He could not move. I mean, he just was. But he could hear everything. He was there, 100%. Just.

Brain cancer was everywhere at that point. It wasn't even just a one. It spread. So it took away all of. All of his abilities and. But he was peaceful. He was peaceful. He was. He was.

I don't know what he was thinking. All I know is I could tell in his. He wasn't fighting it anymore. He just stopped. He knew he couldn't. And that was too exhausting.

And so I think there was. It felt like to me, that he had Acceptance at the end. And he was okay with it. So it. But it wasn't until then. I mean, he really.

Because I think about it, and I think to myself, I would just. I don't think I would have gone through it like him. I would not have fought that hard. I would not have gone to Duke University.

I would not have gone and gotten another. I don't even know how. He went through two brain. Brain tumor surgeries. It's like, okay, you go through one. It was so hard.

And then he decided, I'm going to do it again. I know people who've gone through multiple surgeries, and I just don't think I would.

Matt Gilhooly
00:48:19

You have a different connection to.

Caren Paskel
00:48:20

Yeah, that's okay. That's okay. So he needed to do that. I also know that I wasn't his age. I was in my 40s, and he made it to 30 years old.

We celebrated his birthday, and I honestly believe he is on a fantastic journey. He. To me, for me, he was an angel. I could not have become this person without him in my life.

So when I say it's a blessing, what I mean is to have had this human being in my life for six years is the greatest gift and blessing I've ever received. So I don't look at the loss as much as I look at what I received. My goodness. That's what I always think about.

And so then I think, what can I do with that? How can I give more back? Because he gave me this great gift. I got this angel that I believe I did call in.

I think whether we know we subconscious or consciously, I think subconsciously I wanted to grow so bad, and I did want to believe in myself, and I wanted to make this impact, but I just couldn't get out of my own way. And so he was that catalyst for me.

Matt Gilhooly
00:49:36

It was the push when. When he had that. That really deep, beautiful. It sounds hard conversation with you where it was kind of this acceptance and you having had your not.

I don't. I think a wall is the wrong idea, but the. The sense of, like, yes, I'm going to believe in what you believe, that things are. We're going.

We're moving through this. Was there, like a release for you to now be able to start feeling differently about that out.

Out loud with him, or had that kind of naturally occurred as you were getting closer? Because I think we probably all know you're.

Caren Paskel
00:50:15

You're right. I. I did not show my tears a lot with him, but it was. It was an emotional breakthrough for both of Us. And yes. I mean, I was so stressed.

It was like emergency state all the time. This guy, he. He. He. He was like a kid, almost like you. He wouldn't listen. So he's trying to stand up, he's falling down. He.

I can't even tell you how many times he fell down the flight of stairs. He had bruises all over. And so it was a panic state that I was constantly in. Plus there's all these seizure symptoms. I was in such a frail state.

Fragile. I will say, not frail. I was fragile. My immune system, my nervous system was shot. I had been to the hospital. I had pancreatitis.

My whole body was so inflamed. So to be able to actually be emotional with him and for him to have those. He finally broke, and then that allowed me to break.

And it was a huge relief for me and a start of healing and repairing for me, too. I do remember we went to. I mean, everything was going wrong. It was so bad. And we had to go to Duke. It was for the last time.

And the results were just God awful. It was just. They didn't. They were in shock. The doctor was in shock. He's like, we don't even. Like it's everywhere. Like, there's no.

And so it was there. It was almost like they still. And this is why we went to Duke. They still said, don't give up. There's another chemo. We're gonna try it. I was just.

Oh, my God. And I couldn't hold back. I just couldn't do it anymore. So we were on the plane, and I. It was just drenched, Just tears. And I was holding. As you were.

We were right next to each other. I was holding his hand, and I was just crying. And I just decided, I can't. I can't live. I cannot hold back the pain. And I don't even want to anymore.

He needs to know how much I adore and love him. And it's not that I knew. Yeah, he did. But it's like I need to show my emotions, too, for him.

And it wasn't all day, every day, but it was those moments where I just knew, like, this. This is just okay. I. It needs. And we need to go through this together.

Matt Gilhooly
00:52:49

Well, I mean, it's just such a gift, too, that he chose to do that and chose to have that conversation with you, too, to kind of give you more permission to start your process and what you needed to do as well. I think of my own experience with my grandmother when she was sick, and it was like this journey of.

She had lung cancer and it was doing its thing and we were getting close to the end, and I was just like, it's one of those things. Like that one, I didn't quite know, but there was one day I knew.

And when everyone left, I sat down with her and I said, we're going to have this conversation right now. And I said, we're going to tell each other everything that we need to say about our entire lives together.

Because she really took the place of my mom, essentially after my mom died. And we had that, like, a beautiful conversation in which. I mean, what you had is a beautiful conversation. As hard as it was, it seems very beautiful.

And I was able to have something very similar. And I knew after, when I closed that apartment door from hers, I probably.

That's why I asked the question, because it felt like this flood of like, Like a release, like a. I don't know what happened, but I felt different after that conversation.

And so it really brought me back there when you mentioned that conversation, because how lucky are we to be able to share those. Those hard moments, but in such a.

Caren Paskel
00:54:12

Beautiful way, I feel immensely blessed. That was the greatest gift in so many levels.

But I was handling so many things with my business with him, with doctors, with communication, with families. By the way, he had divorced parents, so there's two families I had to deal with. Lots of siblings, lots of step siblings.

Then we've got aunts and uncles, then we've got my whole family. And I have a Jewish family. So everyone wants to be there and be in my business. I had to tell them, I, I can't. You have to stay away.

Like, I love you, but I. I need room.

Matt Gilhooly
00:54:54

Like one person.

Caren Paskel
00:54:55

I cannot. Don't text me. Like, I. If you ask me how I am, like, just know I'm not okay. And if I need anything, I'll tell you.

Like, it's a burden, like, to hear these, These messages and the questions. And I had to communicate with them and just say, this isn't helping. But I was going through so much that I didn't even realize what he was watching.

He was observing me. And I was the person who usually didn't really do that much. Like, I just did the minimum.

Matt Gilhooly
00:55:27

Like, that doesn't sound quite accurate.

Caren Paskel
00:55:30

But I mean, I, you know, I. When I.

Matt Gilhooly
00:55:33

Comparatively, maybe.

Caren Paskel
00:55:34

Yes, comparatively. And I had a lot of time on my hands. And so even though I ran a business and everything, I still had a lot of downtime. And I.

And I love to relax and watch my tv and take care of my dog, you know? And so he saw me just become this just badass woman who was just taking care of everything. And I didn't see it in me until he said that.

So it was like this mirror, like, hey, we need to stop. You need to acknowledge this. And I think he. He never. He wasn't the person who gave a lot of validation, hardly ever.

So that moment was a very huge affirmation. And it got me to slow down and just say, whoa. Like, wow. Like, okay, wait. I need to take this moment. Holy crap. Like, I. I did. I. I am.

I'm like, yeah, you're right. I never. I never got to do that until that moment, because there was too much going on for me to even recognize it.

Matt Gilhooly
00:56:37

You were spinning too many plates.

Caren Paskel
00:56:39

Yes, exactly.

Matt Gilhooly
00:56:40

Which, I mean, is such a testament to also the human spirit and the things that we can do and overcome in moments like that. So kudos to you for keeping everything together, including yourself. And then when it was time, you took care of yourself. That's in the hard moment.

But now you. A lot of people would probably fall apart and things that come with it, and that's okay too.

But now you're using this experience to help other people, and that probably fills you up even more. So, like, all these things had to happen, terrible as they were, for you to be able to change the world as your husband wanted to do.

Like, so through him, to you, now we're changing the world in a different way.

Caren Paskel
00:57:30

It's so crazy because every time he would talk about his dreams and desires, I was terrified. I'm like, why do you want to do that? Like, that sounds so awful, so hard. Like, so. And just, you have to. Got to be out there.

And why do you want to put yourself out there in that way? Like, just. So I did. I was more comfortable in my bubble. And then I grew my bubble to, okay, let's open a studio and another studio.

Like, that's how far. But it still was contained. So closing the studio and just saying, I'm gonna do this, like, I'm gonna put. I gotta put myself out there.

Like, there was some comfort and ease with the studio, even though it was my own business. That was very challenging. Yes, it was a great step, but still, it was something I had done.

I mean, I felt like I was owning almost my brother's studio for 11 years, so it almost felt like the same role, Except I was a business owner, and I was still working with him too, so I had a lot of support. But this Just like, oh, let's close, and let's. Let's just be an entrepreneur. And I just created all of these.

Matt Gilhooly
00:58:44

Write a book.

Caren Paskel
00:58:45

Yeah, let's write a book. Oh, by the way, I've written three more after that. So it's. It's like I was so inspired because he.

He did anything he set his mind to, every time, it blew me away. And although I was so scared when he got sick, I built that strength and stamina, and I proved to myself that I can do anything I put my mind to.

And I did. And so when he died, I was like, I am going to. I am going to honor this man's death till the day I die.

I am going to live fully, and I am going to give fully. And I don't know how it's all gonna look, but I'm gonna have a great time doing it.

Matt Gilhooly
00:59:31

That's important. Yeah, that's something that we don't spend a lot of time on.

Caren Paskel
00:59:36

I just think that if you cannot. Because my husband, he. We had a great time together, but he was really stressed and agitated a lot of the times.

And I just think that after watching someone so young go through what he went through and die, I'm like, I am not gonna let a day. I say, I only have great days now. Even when I'm sick, even when I'm tired, even when things aren't going my way, I'm still gonna find joy.

And that is the blessing and the gift of just being alive. Hey, I've got another opportunity. And whatever the circumstance is, I celebrate. I celebrate.

That's why I go out all the time by myself, because I keep this spirit of celebration. He only wanted celebration. He said, don't have a funeral. Don't cry over me. Everybody celebrate. Everybody party. And I kept that with me.

I am going to do that. So the person in the beginning, who we met, that didn't really want to go to all the family events when he died, I was at everyone's Christmas.

I was at everyone's Thanksgiving. I just. All I wanted to do was soak up the family, celebrate, be. Be in enjoyment. And that is, you do have a choice. You can sink in sorrow.

And yes, there were hard days. There still is.

I cry all the time thinking about him, especially this time of year, because October was when he died, and September was our wedding anniversary. It was like three months in a row. Like, big, huge memories, us meeting in August, September, the anniversary, October, the death.

So I get very emotional, and I miss him. But even on days that I Cry and miss him. I enjoy my life. I found my passion. I believe in myself. Every day is worth living. And I truly.

I mean, some people are like, oh, you're so. Like, how are you so positive? And they might even think it's not real, but if you're around me, it is. I, like, have a great time every single day.

And I teach people to. I mean, the first thing that I ever really wanted to teach was how to become happy, because I wasn't happy most of my life. I had anxiety, depression.

I was on tons of medication. I was worried all the time and panicky and just really miserable and happy with my body. Just so many things.

And I write about that in one of my books. But the Power of Self Love, because I really loathed myself. So now I love myself. But that took a lot.

And it did take this whole scenario for me to realize, like, who I really am, how much I have to give. Life is so short. Tomorrow's not guaranteed. And I was really taking it for granted, to be honest, again, until that, like most people.

Yeah, I mean, we. We really don't think about it much. It's like, I'll do it tomorrow.

Well, David didn't wake up for another tomorrow, and he doesn't get to have another day. So I never procrastinate anymore. I just. I go for it.

And I think people like to work with me because just like him, they wanted to be around him because he was that person. He just. He would say to me, don't complain, just go do it.

Matt Gilhooly
01:03:02

Not everyone wants to hear that right away.

Caren Paskel
01:03:05

I did. And I say it much kinder to people because for me, that would be weird to hear from me because I'm not him.

But for me, that's exactly what I needed to hear in the way that he said it to me. Because I was coddled, I was spoiled. And if I didn't want to do something, I would get out of it very easily and taken care of.

He trained me in a wonderful way. He could have done it, but he's like, no, you need to go do that. Stop complaining about it.

And it helped me more than any therapist that I've ever gone to. I was like, why didn't anyone tell me this information? When you complain, you're draining yourself.

It's exhausting, and you're not going to get to where you want to go. So I learned that when he got sick, what was I going to do?

Complain because he's about to have a seizure, that I had to drive a car on the other side of the street and figure that out. No, I was just going to do it. And so that gave me the strength, I believe, to handle everything else that came our way.

And even the loss of him and my studios and everything that I thought this is like, what I love the most was. Was gone. And yet I love me. I love me.

Matt Gilhooly
01:04:36

Clear.

Caren Paskel
01:04:37

Yeah.

Matt Gilhooly
01:04:37

No, I.

I think there's a lot of inspiration that people can take from the way that you approach life, not necessarily from the way that you dealt with the death or any of those pieces. I think it's more about your. Your connection to who you are and what this journey has taught you.

And earlier in our conversation, you kind of squashed the way that I like to end these conversations because I. I like to.

I know it's not possible and I know that it would change things, but it's interesting always to me to think about if, like, the current version of Karen could go to the Karen that was like walking up for your first date or the first time you were going to meet David. Would you say anything to her? Would you.

Was there anything you want to whisper in her ear as she's going into this new adventure she was about to go on?

Caren Paskel
01:05:23

No, absolutely not. Because. Yeah, because when I saw him, my whole life changed. I saw his smile and I. I never had a love at first sight experience.

And that was it for me.

And so I wouldn't want to take that away from her because it was something I had hoped for forever, but I would never have known how it would even be and feel. And I wasn't expecting it because at that point in my life, I just had kind of given up hope a little bit.

And I was going on this last random date just for, like, fun.

Matt Gilhooly
01:05:58

Well, it was. It turned out to be a wild ride.

Caren Paskel
01:06:01

It really. It really was. So I. I think I would want her to just experience everything how it was, because it was. It was pretty amazing.

Matt Gilhooly
01:06:10

Yeah, no, I think. I think you're right. I think about the younger version of me and what I would say.

I think I wouldn't say anything, but I sure would give him a hug because that version of me was like, whoa, that little er. To happen.

Caren Paskel
01:06:25

Absolutely.

Matt Gilhooly
01:06:26

But thank you for sharing your story in this way and sharing David with us and sharing, like, your journey. If people want to, like, read, you have multiple books.

But if people want to, like, get in your orbit, find you, find what you do, Find you in Colorado when you are on the hills of Breckenridge. What's the best way to find you.

Caren Paskel
01:06:46

Yes. I'm pretty easy to find. I mean, if you. My name is spelled with a C. But I have a website, Karen Pascal dot com. You can find me there.

Find me on social media. Karen Pascal. Power is my business page. And I. Yeah, I have a book, the Power of Self Belief, and that is on Amazon.

It's also in audio, it's also in bookstores. And that's. That's my baby. The Power of Self Belief. And I just have.

It's newly revised as well because when I wrote it, it was a very cathartic experience and I wasn't it, it wasn't as well edited. So I took the time to really go through that. And also, amazingly enough, I remembered things in a new way. I remembered new details.

So those are included as well. So there's pictures. It's a really beautiful book. It's very transformative and I would love to share that with you.

And if you are a caregiver, then I have a Facebook group called Self Caregiving for Caregivers and you can just ask to join and you will receive my book. You will receive online yoga classes and I have a lot of resources. Plus there's just engagement and camaraderie in there and beautiful stories.

Very positive, actually.

Matt Gilhooly
01:08:01

Awesome. Well, we'll, we'll collect all those links. We'll make sure that they're in the show notes.

So if you are listening, definitely take advantage of those links. I'm assuming your website has links to your books as well?

Caren Paskel
01:08:12

Yes.

Matt Gilhooly
01:08:13

Right? Yes. And if, like, if something about Karen's story resonated with you, I encourage you to reach out whether she wants you to or not.

I think it's a beautiful thing to share your story and, and make these connections. So thank you again, Karen, for being a part of my healing journey by sharing your story.

Caren Paskel
01:08:28

Thank you so much for having me. This was really amazing. I love, I love this conversation.

Matt Gilhooly
01:08:34

Well, thank you. Thank you all for listening. I will be back next week with a brand new episode of the Life Shift podcast. Thanks again, Karen.

Caren Paskel
01:08:42

Thank you.

Matt Gilhooly
01:08:52

For more information, please visit www.thelifeshiftpodcast.com.