Discovering Personal Freedom in Entrepreneurship | Jenn Trepeck

00:01
I was studying for the GMAT and I was like preparing to take the test and our family was planning our annual December vacation. And I had to go online into this computer system and request the time off. And that was like, seems subtle, seems like nothing. And it hit me like, I feel like those old cartoons.

00:31
Like, I don't know, there's like the anvil that like drops on Bugs Bunny or my, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was me when it hit me that I was requesting permission for access to my own time. Today's guest is Jenn Trepeck. Jenn is a health coach, she's a podcaster and also a business consultant. She's been recognized as one of podcast magazines 40 Under 40 and really her passion for wellness is truly inspiring.

01:01
In this episode, Jenn shares her transformative journey from being really an over-scheduled student to a thriving entrepreneur. She is so, so busy, and you'll get to hear some of the things that she does. One of the key themes that we explore today is the emotional connection to food and how that plays into her entrepreneurial journey. It's a topic that most of us, many of us, can relate to, as really society and our own personal experiences lead to this complex relationship with food.

01:30
Jenn's insights allow us to understand the emotional bond with food from her own fresh perspective. Throughout the episode, we also discussed Jenn's journey to entrepreneurship and how she transitioned from being a diligent student to a really multi-venture entrepreneur. Despite the challenges and uncertainties that come with a shift in your life like this, her story reveals the satisfaction that can be found in living in the moment and embracing the learning that comes from every experience. Before we jump into this,

02:00
week's episode, I wanted to thank Traci and Emily for sponsoring one episode every month. They do this through the Patreon feed. And I'm just so grateful that they believe in this journey and want to help cover some of the production costs and the things that come along with being a solo podcaster. So thank you to Traci and Emily. If you are interested in directly supporting the show, you can head to patreon.com slash the life shift podcast and you can find all the information there on how you can do that.

02:30
So, without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Jenn Trepeck. I'm Matt Gilhooly, and this is The Life Shift. Candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

02:55
Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Life Shift podcast. I am here with a fellow podcaster, Jenn. Hello, Jen. Hi, Matt. How are you? I'm so good and also nervous when I talk to other podcasters because you kind of just know, like, oh, Matt, you shouldn't be doing that. Oh, no. I love talking to other podcasters. I'm the opposite. I'm like, now, we're people. It's like all the other things go out the window. Well, and your podcast is called Salad with a Side of Fries, correct? It is, yes.

03:23
It is all about nutrition and wellness, but for real life. And actually, Frank, the critic, is how we found each other. He described it as wellness without the weirdness. And I was like, yes. I know, I use it all the time now. Yeah, thank you to Frank. If you are listening, Frank, we appreciate you. Beyond. We're just out here doing our thing, and to have people see us and see what we're trying to do and put into the world is just.

03:52
I'm so thankful for it and just so honored to be on a list, on anyone's list. Exactly, agreed. It's awesome and I love that your podcast is like for real life because I think so many people and I think it's related to like what I talk about on this show with other people is like, I think we just like see, like we want like a plan or we want to like, oh, so and so did this, let me follow exactly what they did even if it's not sustainable, even if it's not something that.

04:20
feels right or we move through the right space. So I love that you're like. All of that stuff. It's like, because even when people hear I'm a health coach, they think that I'm watching everything they're eating. They think that I care what they're eating. Guess what? I don't. Like, that's not what it is at all. It's like, do you care what you're eating? Because that's my question. And I'm like, I call it for real life because it's not like, well, only eat things that are green.

04:50
and never drink alcohol. And it's like, no, no, no, I live in the world where all the other things exist too. Well, and I think it's too, it's related in the same sense. When I talk to people about trauma moments or grief moments, it's, I often, the only advice I can give from my personal experience is like, allow yourself to feel however you feel. And that's like living in the real world. It's not, you're not supposed to be sad for this amount of time. You're not.

05:19
supposed to not be happy during that time. And you know, it's just like this grace that we have to give ourselves. And I think that comes with nutrition too. A thousand percent, because also there's no way to live in this world, no matter where or how you grew up, where there isn't some emotional connection to food. And so whether that's a function of trauma or a function of

05:48
you know, being, you know, somebody restricting or watching somebody else or, you know, a million other things like seeing what society accepts. Like it is impossible to function in this world and not have some sort of tumultuous relationship at times, right? Really interesting. I don't know if you've heard this. I was interviewing somebody about trauma and...

06:14
He gave a really amazing definition that I also feel was like such a weight lifted. And so I'm curious if this resonates. A lot of us think that like trauma is the event that happens. He says it's not at all the event that happens. Trauma is the unfelt emotions of anything. That that's actually the trauma in the body. So it doesn't matter if something

06:43
wild happened to you, or you stubbed your toe. It's more about, you know, how did you work through that? Did you feel the feelings? Did you learn to process emotion? Or did you like stuff it down and forget about it? And that's actually the trauma. No, it does resonate. And that's kind of why I tell people like, feel everything and it's okay. If you wanna be mad, you can be mad. If you wanna be sad, do it. Like you're a fully formed human.

07:12
And you're right about the connection to food. And we will get into your story and how you got here. But having the early trauma for anyone that hasn't listened before, when I was eight, my mom was killed in an accident. And my life was, my life shift was then, it was essentially my parents were divorced, lived thousands of miles apart. And my life with my mom no longer existed. And I had to move to another state with my dad, new school, all this stuff at eight years old. And that trauma of me.

07:41
performing because everyone around me wanted to see that I was going to be okay and I was happy. And I saw that and I thought, okay, I have to do all these things so everyone thinks that I'm happy so they don't also abandon me like my mom abandoned me in my brain, right? A death that is an abandonment. And that is why I became so controlled on what I did, which led to eating disorders and all those things that came along.

08:11
in that process, not even understanding that it was all based in the unprocessed emotions and the traumas and the control that I had to have on my life in the safe decisions that I made, but I could screw myself up over there because nobody knows what I'm eating. You know? Right. It's kind of like, so yeah, I would imagine that most people that have any kind of anything, they have some kind of attachment to food, whether that's good or bad. Yeah, I'm gonna recommend a book.

08:41
And I feel like you should reach out to this woman to be a guest on the show. Her name is Dr. Margaret Rutherford. Her book is called Perfectly Hidden Depression. And it's about how perfectionism is often a misdiagnosis and it's a cover for depression. And that it's sort of, because perfectionism is socially acceptable. Well, yeah, we were assigned that. Right, and there's all these pieces. And part of that is,

09:11
you know, not feeling those emotions, right? And that even identifying that we have those emotions is somehow a failure and that's not acceptable. And so we do the perfectionist performance. It resonates deeply and I will certainly check out that book. I think I didn't realize all these things until I was 30 and I think that's what's so great about like just talking and therapy and things like that. But.

09:39
Anyway, we went way down on the tangent. I know, I'm sorry. Such a rebel. So good. I mean, I think it's important because so many people can relate to this. These are real human issues. But we want to talk about you. So maybe before we get into like painting your backstory, maybe you can just tell us a little bit about who you are right now, even though it might give away a little bit. But tell us a little bit about who you are in 2024. God, this is such a complicated question. I am.

10:08
an entrepreneur and a forever learner. Like if I had to bottle it up, that's who I am. What that looks like these days is businesses in health and wellness. I have a couple of ventures in health and wellness space. Podcasting, I have a couple ventures in the podcast industry. And I also own a property management company in New York City.

10:38
which is sort of this other thing. And we'll get to how all these things fit together, but I am now in a place where every day I am throwing noodles at the wall and making it up. And I probably have never worked harder, but I've also never been happier. And okay with throwing noodles. I feel like I was conditioned to not throw the noodles. Like...

11:05
you better know what you're doing before you do it. But to have the freedom to throw the noodles is like, are they gluten free? If you want. No, I think that's fascinating. I mean, that's a lot. I think on a, you know, if I go with my society's checklist mentality, that seems like a lot of jobs. But to hear you say, like there's not a day that I don't, I mean, I'm sure there are days you don't love what you're doing. Right. There's sometimes.

11:32
Like as a human, I think that happens. But to know that you're genuinely passionate and happy with all the different ventures you have, that's like so foreign for a brain like mine. I think I always wanted this. I think it was sort of foreign.

11:51
I knew it was possible. I didn't necessarily know how it was gonna get there. And that's where, right, all these shifts happen that ultimately end up here. But like... We can't talk about it without talking about it. Maybe we just, maybe you kind of paint the picture and lead us through kind of, I know we talked that, I love to talk about one life shift, but I think we all have these different moments in our lives that kind of...

12:17
put us on a new path and kind of venture us through there. So maybe you can paint the picture of who you were, who old Jen was. So I grew up in Michigan. I am a midwesterner at heart. You know, I grew up in the suburbs of Detroit. I have an older sister. My parents got divorced when I was five. And I know I'm best friends with both of my parents. Like I know them as such.

12:39
individual people that I'm like, oh, I get why you guys weren't married. You know, like I can see why that didn't work. I don't know why you guys thought it would, you know. So they were probably following a path. Right. And they dated in high school. And like back then they got married right after college and you know, all of that. It was like high school and college. Exactly. Growing up. It's funny. I like, I don't know why this is coming to me in this moment, but there must be a reason. So I'll say it. You know, it was like,

13:10
Everybody thought I did things because my sister did them. So like she played piano, I played piano. She went to dance class, I went to dance class. But like there were certain things that I kept going with. Like she ended up hating dance, I loved it. You know, so, but people, I think for a while I tried to fight for like my own identity in all of that. But people saw you as kind of just, oh, my older sister did it. She must not really love it. She just wants to.

13:40
fit in. Right, right. And then, you know, I did theater in high school. I did like I was definitely that to some degree, like over scheduled, overly involved, conscientious student who like, you know, did all the things ticked all the boxes, right? Did you do it because you wanted to? Do you think looking back, do you think you wanted to do all that? I did. Do you think you had to? My parents did not.

14:08
say, do any of these. I did it. I think I did it and so they didn't have to say anything, but I don't even know that they would have. You know? Were you competitive in those spaces too? I did compete in dance for a little bit, but it wasn't my favorite. But even in like the sense of like, did you feel like you, I'm doing more than you or I got the better part or did you feel any of those senses? No, I never got the lead. That wasn't my right.

14:37
I never got the lead, but I would create my value on the production side, right? I actually almost went to college for theater makeup and design because I did all the makeup for the shows and learned from some of these special effects makeup and some really cool stuff from professional makeup artists when I was in high school. So it was like, I found other ways to become invaluable to the production.

15:07
because I was never the lead. But you were always learning too. It goes with what you say you are now. It's like, what else can I learn? What else can I do? Exactly, yeah. So I graduate from high school. I go to the University of Michigan and I went to the business school at Michigan back then, the undergrad program. So I basically have my MBA but an undergrad, so it's a BBA. It was like you did two years.

15:36
sort of like normal regular college and then two years of business school. And it was interesting. It was another place of like getting involved and finding this community and doing all the things. And then business schools like pride themselves on the rates, like the percentage of their students who have jobs upon graduation.

16:03
So I joke that I was like the bastard child of the business school because I wanted to do like marketing, more the creative stuff. Like I wanted to do marketing, but like at an ad agency, not like brand management. Well, ad agencies don't recruit at business schools. Not only do they not really care what your degree was, they don't hire people a year in advance of when they're gonna start working.

16:33
you know, which is what a lot of these bigger companies do. Career fairs and all that garbage. Exactly. Exactly. So I was the one who graduated without a job. And thank you. I applaud that. Moved to New York. So I interned in New York City every summer that I was in college. With theater or? No, I had. So it all sort of started because my mom.

17:02
had a job in New York, my senior year of high school, and freshman year of college. And so I would come to New York for the weekend. Like I went prom dress shopping in New York City, even though I lived in Michigan, right? So I sort of like got used to the city and I was like, well, obviously I'm never coming back and like staying in a hotel, you know, cause she had an apartment. So New York City was the only place I looked for jobs. I interned.

17:28
One summer at an ad agency that specialized in catalogs, back when catalogs were, no, I lied. That ad agency specialized in like direct mail. So I worked in like, like Citibank, right? Like all of the stuff that they mail you. Worked on that. Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah. Clogged the mailbox. And then the second summer I interned at L'Oreal.

17:57
on the brand management side. Again, it was like the textbook, checking the box, the things you were supposed to do. And I was like, I want to go back to the agency side. It's more fun, it's more creative, but they don't really care that I went to business school. So I graduate without a job, I moved to New York, and that's when I got hired at this ad agency that specialized in catalogs. I literally had a job within a week.

18:27
of moving to New York and I started like a week after that. I mean, that's that's impressive. Yeah. And what year was that? That was 2005. So, you know, I mean, yeah. Impressive, though. Yeah. In a big city to get that. But you were you were checking the boxes. You got your exactly your big girl, big girl job. Right. Making nothing. But it was the job, right. It was like I am employed.

18:54
Well, the next checklist is a promotion. Right. Yeah. Exactly. So I start going to this job every day, and I am bored. Like, bored to tears. So. Is it because you didn't have enough to do, or because it was just boring? I didn't have enough to do. I was overqualified for the job, but it was the job.

19:19
Right? And it was entry level and this was what you're supposed to do. Like I wasn't the receptionist, but I was like the low man on the team. And. You know, it was just. Whatever fulfillment. Yeah. So then I started. Like I was like, maybe I'll study for the GMAT. So that's the test to. Yeah, exactly. So that's the test to get your MBA. And I remember saying like.

19:48
They say you score better on it if you take it sooner after graduating from undergrad, because you're sort of in that test-taking mindset. Meanwhile, I was a terrible test-taker. Like, I don't know why I thought that was going to matter, but whatever. And then I had heard about this course. So I'm taking a course, and I ended up bringing my stuff to study for the GMAT to work, because I was sitting there all day with not enough to do. So two things happened.

20:18
One was.

20:21
I was studying for the GMAT and I was like preparing to take the test and our family was planning our annual December vacation. And I had to go online into this computer system and request the time off. And that was like, seems subtle, seems like nothing. And it hit me like, I feel like those old cartoons. What was it?

20:52
Like, I don't know, there's like the anvil that like drops on Bugs Bunny or my, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was me when it hit me that I was requesting permission for access to my own time. And you might have had that declined at the same time. Yeah, like it was not like, hey, I'm going on vacation, but hey, am I allowed to spend time with my family? Right. Yeah. Right. But-

21:20
And it was that moment in which you were just like, that it actually like, was that the first, cause it probably wasn't the first time you requested time off, but it happened to be a long vacation. Yeah, I mean, I think it was the first time that it like, our family travel wasn't aligned with like a school vacation. Right.

21:42
And so it was like the first time where they were maybe gonna say no. And then my life is different because I don't get to spend time with my family, which is my tradition. And it's like, well, what am I doing? Like, and why is, why do they have this control over my life? Like it was just like, okay, I get that I'm not going to change the dynamics of corporate environments.

22:11
So what I know is that I can't work for somebody else for the rest of my life. So planted that seed of like, I can do this for right now, but I gotta get out. But I feel like those kinds of moments also are like, not fully, but they feel toxic in a way to me, because it kind of pollutes the water, and then it's like really hard to just show up the next day and the next day. It's interesting because

22:41
as I figured out other things, it got easier to show up because those things had less meaning to me. So like the drama was happening, but it wasn't happening to me, it was happening around me because I was focused on this other stuff. So you would just show up, do your boring work. It was like, it was a means to an end. And like, so that day I was like, okay, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I just know I can't work for somebody else for the rest of my life, right? And then I went for the GMAT.

23:11
exam and while I'm waiting for the results for the score I was like what am I doing? If I'm going to work for myself why am I going to waste the money and the time?

23:30
going back for this degree that's essentially the same education that I just got from a different institution. Another piece of paper to frame. Right, and then I was like, but I'm not gonna pay me more for doing that, versus not. So I was like, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna start looking for things to do in my spare time. And originally my intention was just to take that money and invest it. And then...

23:59
retire early and live off this interest income and great, but then everything I thought of to do sounded miserable. What were some of the things? When I was at Michigan, I was a writing tutor. I was like, okay, I'll go to NYU and I'll tutor kids. Then I was like, but logistically, let's say Joe forgets he has a paper due. Now I'm up all night dealing with Joe and his paper and I'm still supposed to be at work at 8 a.m.

24:29
Like, not gonna work. You know, and so I was looking for things to do. Just to occupy your time or to try to find your exit route? Both. It was like, occupy the time and make some extra money to invest it.

24:49
And so I'm looking for things. And at the same time that all of this is happening, I have my own weight management saga happening. And so essentially, backing up on the weight side, I sort of joke that I grew up the skinny one in a family of dieters. But I said I was also a dancer. So I think I was very aware of my body. So when I started to gain weight,

25:18
between high school and college, I think I was more sensitive to it because of my spatial awareness and body awareness from being a dancer. And then also I was like, okay, well, I know what to do because I watched my family do this my whole life. Right? Like, I thought I was going to be different. I thought I was going to do the one diet, check the box, and move on, even though everybody else like...

25:47
did every diet under the sun. And then of course, when the one diet didn't work, it was every diet under the sun gaining and losing, living on that roller coaster, you know, over and over. And then another life shift moment, I learned about the curriculum that I have since based my entire health coaching practice on. How did you come into that?

26:14
It sort of functions from a little bit of like a franchise model of sorts. And so I was introduced to the parent company. And then because I was looking for things to do to make money in my spare time. And at first, when I learned, I was like, oh, no, no, no, I got my thing. I don't need whatever you have. Right. And my thing was the crazy roller coaster. But I was like, I got like, I don't need whatever you have.

26:43
And then I saw people who were following this, you know, quote unquote program. I didn't even know, you know what I mean? And they were keeping the weight off. So that was one thing. And then there was this woman telling her story of removing like 150 pounds and keeping it off. And I am staring at this woman and I'm like, I don't see where 10 pounds could have been on her body. Like,

27:12
She's telling me the equivalent of another human was attached to her, but it didn't add up. It didn't compute based on everything I knew. And I had a moment with myself that was like, Jennifer, like they know something you don't know. Because with everything you know, that doesn't make any sense. And so I worked with a coach. You know, I followed the program. I learned the education. It completely changed my life.

27:42
So that light bulb moment was really seeing that person tell their story. Totally. And then the fact that it was like, wait, are you lying? Right. This doesn't make sense. With all that I know, I've been on all these roller coasters. There's no possible way you could do that. But it was one of those things. I was ready to hear it. I was ready to figure out- Right moment, right time. What they were doing that was different that created that. Because nothing I knew created that.

28:11
And you hadn't seen it growing up either because you were in this family of dieters that were doing The one thing that maybe we all assumed in that time period was what everyone did like this is just what you do This is just diet culture, right? And I grew up like there isn't a diet out there that like I haven't done my family hasn't done We don't know somebody who's done it and like every fad diet was in our pantry so What I saw this woman I was like

28:40
like it does not compute in my brain. Like, what about this? So working with a coach, I mean, it completely changed my life. Like the only thing that allowed me to say I kicked my food issues. Because I call it the nutrition education we're all supposed to know and nobody ever taught us.

29:00
And it's not the food pyramid. Right. Wait, what? So it's not the milk that we get. We could go down a whole rabbit hole on those things. And so it was one of those where I was like, everybody deserves this information. Why isn't this what we learned? Where did that food pyramid come from? And so I was like, OK, this is my thing. This is what I'm going to do outside of my full time job. And it felt right. Yes.

29:30
It was the thing that I had enough interest and passion for to do on top of a full-time job, compared to like being a writing tutor. But I think there's something valuable too when we are searching for these like side gig things when we really have to believe in them to want to continue through them. And so like, it's not like you were like, oh, well, guess what, here is.

29:58
the South Beach diet and we're going to sell this. You know, like it was like, this is real information that's worked for me. It's clearly worked for this other person that blew my mind. I could do this, because I wanna help other people, because I know how it sucks to be in this cycle. Exactly. So I mean, leaning into that though, I mean, that seems like it would be your dream. Yeah, and so I started working with clients, you know.

30:24
I went to like every training and seminar and workshop. I read every book I could get my hands on. Like I had a few friends, like I'm sure I was insufferable for a while because it was like, it was all I could think about. And I like was so, it was so unbelievable to me. Everything that I was learning compared to what we were taught, you know? So I built my practice nights and weekends from late 2007 to July of 2019.

30:54
Wow, that's a long time. A long time. And there were times where I would do more with it and less with it depending on what was happening in my day job and I switched day jobs a couple times over those years. So this was just a side hustle for 12 years or so. 100%. Wow. I know. Like, and this was before.

31:20
Right, think about it, like 2007, it was before side hustles were a thing. It was before health coaching was as much of a thing as it is now. You know, my friends at the time were like, why can't you go to the bar? Like, what do you have going on? But you were feeding your soul as well as, you know, helping other people. It's surprising to me, and the reason I was like 12 years, it almost seems like, why didn't you leave?

31:48
the other thing sooner and build it full time? Was there? This is where life is real, right? Like it is not uncommon for energy to go with the money. I've chose, as I'm saying, like I was making a lot of money. In these day jobs that I have.

32:10
And I still am, but at the time, right? Single, no kids. Why not keep doing both and keep collecting until or unless doing both becomes unsustainable? Yeah, because we were taught the more money you have, the better your life is. And it was a piece of like, this was part of my bigger vision of having this money to then be able to live off the interest. And so it wasn't the money coming from the side hustle.

32:39
that I thought, right, it was like the money from the day job ended up being the thing that fed that investment account and the side hustle fed my soul. Rather than what I thought it was going to be in the beginning of the side hustle feeding the investment account. So your passion was fulfilled by the side hustle, but also like, I mean, that means you're working, what, 60, 70 hours a week? I mean, what does that look like? Well, it depends. Like there were times when I was doing...

33:07
you know, that many hours. And then there were times where like, I was just plain exhausted. And like, had I put more energy into my health coaching practice, could I have left sooner? Yeah, probably. You know, are there times where I would beat myself up about it? Yeah, 100%. And there were times where I contemplated quitting, but I was contemplating quitting my side hustle, right? And every time that happened, I would end up thinking through like the same pattern, which was,

33:38
Okay, fine, quit the side hustle, then what? Well, then I'm intentionally choosing this job and working in these kinds of environments for the rest of my life. And that is absolutely not a choice I'm making. So then I'm gonna need something else. And what's that something else gonna be if it's not this thing that I've already been doing? And so, and like, there were times where like, I would go through that thought process 20 times a day. You know, like. Yeah.

34:08
But that's part of why it was 12 years. But it's also like the battle that like, I mean, I think we were all conditioned that you should be working 40 hours a week for someone else forever. And then you have enough money in your investment account to live off of and that's your retirement. And maybe it's early, maybe it's not, but you're supposed to work for the man. You know, you're like, you're not supposed to find this passion and that passion's supposed to...

34:34
be sustainable. I mean, and both of my parents worked for themselves. So I saw that. But they also both, like they were both accountants by training. And so they had built a business or a practice that then allowed them to go out on their own. Well, kind of like you did with the side hustle, is in a sense like you got the training and now you can be a coach to anyone out there and you can do that your own. What was the breaking point? Well, there were sort of.

35:04
There's always a couple of things, right? One was, I started at, so I had left this ad agency that worked in, that specialist in catalogs. I went in house with a client. I left there and went to a hedge fund. I had then left there thinking I was gonna focus more on my own stuff and ended up then, shortly after that, going to another hedge fund. And I got to this place and I was like,

35:33
I don't belong here. I am not the profile of their typical hire. And so it's actually kind of weird that I'm here at all. And they were also an environment where the leadership thrived on turnover. And because it was an environment that thrived on turnover, they had a reputation for taking care of people.

36:00
when they let them go because they knew that it wasn't for cause. That's interesting. Right? So I was like... It's a weird business model. A very... Whatever. It's just... It's not the business model, but it's like the thing you do so that those things don't hurt the business model. And so I was like, my plan is now to sit at this place till they pay me to leave. So that's what I did. That's really satisfying. But it was like...

36:29
Again, I had my own stuff. And so I would spend more time doing my stuff and figured out the balance. And I didn't necessarily go above and beyond to be the greatest employee they'd ever had. I still did a good job. I did my work, but I had other objectives. Yeah, your goal wasn't to get promoted. Right. So I knew I was gonna be leaving July, like June 30th was my last day.

37:00
of 2019 and I had gotten into listening to podcasts. And so I was like, I could do this. I didn't know again, I didn't know what it was going to be about, but I kind of wanted to do this podcast thing. And so I had set myself up so that I wasn't in a financial position to feel like I had to get the next full time job. And I had just said, I'm just going to see what happens. Like never.

37:30
in the 12 years of having my business, had I ever only focused on it. And so I was like, I think I'm just going to do that for a couple of months and let's see what happens. And then I left there, the head hunter who I'd worked with for a few years called me and he's like, I got this. And I was like, no, thanks. Like, not ready yet. You know, and all of these kinds of, you know, and then it was like every time the head hunter called me, I was like, not ready yet.

37:59
No, thanks. And I just kept focusing on my health coaching practice and this podcast. Did you see it growing? Yeah. Was it like? It was growing. Because you had the time now to put more energy into it. Was it as fulfilling the more time you put into it or did you find it felt like job-like? It's a great question. It was a little bit of both. Like because I had the podcast

38:29
Also, it was like I was learning a new medium. I was communicating these themes and stories and this information in a different way that kept it really interesting and new. And I was also, I knew also that like, just because all of a sudden I had full-time hours, didn't inherently turn my practice into full-time income. And so I sort of knew that that was how it was gonna be. You know?

38:56
So I ended up, I spent a ton of time networking and I did all these other things to then, grow it and establish it. The reason I ask is sometimes like those passion side projects, once you like put a responsibility on them to pay your bills now solely, it becomes like, do I love this as much as I used to? It's not quite as fun now because I feel this pressure that I have to do X, Y and Z. That also could just be my mind coming up with that idea.

39:25
It was, it didn't feel like that. But again, it was like, because anything I was working on, I was working on it by choice. And that was such a shift. Do the wins feel better? Yes. When you are doing that? Like it's better than a promotion because you're getting another client because you're passionate about it, because you've put in the work. You've created it and you get to keep every bit of that upside, you know?

39:55
And like you said, you created that. Like something, and I don't know if it's gonna pan out, but something showed up yesterday that literally everything I have been doing for the last year and a half.

40:13
made it such that I'm a thousand percent ready and ready, willing, able, and capable of this project. But like, I had no idea this is where it was going to lead or all these little things that I was doing for the last year and a half would end up leading to this.

40:33
So it's really like, I mean, your story is really finding that bliss kind of like topic, if you will, and then just chasing it and chasing your curiosities to like build all these offshoots that you've kind of created for yourself, not because you had to, because they kind of manifest in themselves because of, I mean, I guess it's passion, right? I mean, obviously you have work ethic. Right, right. But you know, but it's also...

41:03
saying yes and saying no. Curiosity. Right. But like. Is it hard to say no in this space for you? Yes, it is so hard. But I think that's a me thing. I don't know, maybe no is hard for a lot of people. But I'm learning to say no. I'm learning also to be more comfortable ending things. Like.

41:31
I have to continuously remind myself that I made up the rules. I can change the rules. I made up the deadline. I can change the deadline if I'm stressed out. Like, you know, there are certain things where it can be really easy to recreate the old work patterns in your own business. Because that's what we learned is what work looks like or what, quote unquote, success looks like. Yeah.

42:00
We've seen it in every movie. Right. And so I have to remind myself, like, oh, I didn't publish the article on Monday. Like, I made up that the article gets published on Monday. Right. Yeah, but I imagine that's hard, though, because I think we are. I mean, we grow up with school. And school has deadlines. And certain things are due. And if you don't do them, then you're punished. And I think we naturally absorb these things. And that's why entrepreneurship from

42:29
for me seems so, such a foreign idea because it's, I don't, who sets the rules? You do, and then what happens if you don't follow the rules and then does it become a slippery slope? And so like, people like you- Well, and there are certain things where it's a client consequence versus publishing content, right? So there's sort of different levels of those things.

42:54
but you have to hold yourself accountable. And you have to, you know, and I think there's a responsibility there, but it all kind of really stems down for me, hearing your story is really like, you found your thing. Right. Like if you were like bedazzling denim shirts, you probably wouldn't have done this. I don't know why I came up with that, but you wouldn't be, you know, maybe you wouldn't be doing that because it didn't feed your soul in the way, that was not even a pun, but it didn't feed your soul in the way that nutrition and helping people find

43:24
the space that you found that's changed your life, because that's really what it is. You're using your story with the education to help people better themselves. And if you do it right, do you coach yourself out of a job? Yes, I do. I work with clients for 12 weeks, and every business coach I have had tells me that I'm doing it wrong. Because you don't have repeat. Like I have...

43:51
I also work with products and supplements and things like that. So I have ways of ongoing revenue with a relationship, but they're like, why aren't people working with you forever? And I was like, because by definition, if they need me to know what they're eating next week, I have not done my job. Like that's not helpful. That's going back to the cycles. Right. So there is some of also that navigating and figuring things out.

44:21
that is always happening. But I think the biggest learning since being fully on my own is that everybody is making it up. Everybody is making it up. Even the person, the CEO, and all the higher ups at whatever your job is, like, spoiler alert, they're also making it up. They have maybe more experience or different experience

44:51
the things that they make up to be different than the things that you might make up in this moment. But everybody's making it up all the time and throwing noodles at the wall. No, it's true. I mean, we're making it up right now. We're just letting the conversation go where it goes. And I think that's an important takeaway. I think we feel that we have to be perfect in everything we do. That we have to have that figured out. That we have to know where it's gonna end up.

45:21
But we are in a very performative society, even still. Even if we're like okay with, you know, not being perfect, we're still in this space where we seek out approval or we seek out, you know, social media is very, you know, like driven and engagement driven. And so it's hard to navigate that space. Well, I think it's also where we're looking for that from. Like.

45:49
There is tremendous value, like when I'm coaching other people or we're talking about their career path or whatever it is, like there is, I say to everybody, learn on their dime. Find the big companies that are going to pay you to figure it out. Right? Make mistakes on their money. Exactly. And then take everything you've learned and build something for yourself. It is infinitely harder, and I see it happening a lot with Gen Z.

46:18
Right? They want to start immediately doing it for themselves. But there's so much value in the learning without the same consequence as like the desperation almost that we were talking about before of like, but what if this doesn't work? What am I going to do? You know? So like learn on their dime. Take everything you learn. Parlay that into something for yourself. And like the more...

46:46
Also that like we can recognize that even the people who look like on social media, they have it all figured out, they don't. And they're probably trying to sell you the idea that they do. Yeah, I think what's nice too about like learning on someone else's dime is I think you have also the time and space and security to find that other thing.

47:15
to find like you, you know, you did your thing, but you also had your own personal journey that brought you to see that woman up on the stage, saying that she just halfed herself, you know, like, she just disappeared half of her body. In a great way, in a great way. And kept it there in a good way. And it sparked an interest in you, it sparked, you know, but had you not had that other.

47:41
job where you were doing your thing, you wouldn't have that security and maybe you would have felt forced to go down a particular route, whereas this one allowed you, I guess, a little bit more freedom to succeed or not, find your own success in that space. And once I had this other thing happening, like the job at the hedge fund, I never would have taken if I didn't have my own thing because I wasn't even interested in that work.

48:13
It was literally a paycheck that was a lot less travel than the paycheck I had before. So like when I was producing photo shoots and trying to start my side hustle, it was really hard. Like I wasn't adept at like how to keep things going when I left town for almost a month, you know, or had all this other stuff going on. So when this other job fell in my lap, you know, or came up, I was like,

48:42
I think I could get to where I want to go. I could do the nine to five. I could push the papers. I could do what I need to do, not overachieve, not underachieve, just. And make more money at that thing while I do this. Yeah. And like, it's all the making it up. It's all of the, let's try this. I'm going to choose this for now. And that was the other thing. Like even.

49:10
Another sort of aha moment for myself was when that headhunter would call me. And I was like, mm, not right now. I never made a definitive choice to never get that next job. I feel like it's almost like a validation in your response to that headhunter, in my opinion. Yeah. Like the way that it's almost like, I have the freedom to say not right now because...

49:40
things are happening in the way that maybe they feel right. And it's almost like, sure, you're not making this definitive decision, but you're also validating what you're doing is working because not right now. I don't need this. I don't need you, but don't stop coming to me just in case. And it was like, I just don't want that right now. And it was, one of my mentors used to call it the dignity of choice.

50:09
A lot of people don't have that. I don't know if most, but I think a lot of people don't have, or it's not that they don't have it, they don't feel the confidence to make that choice because they've been conditioned, or we've been conditioned as society that certain things have to play out in a certain way. Right, or that we have to know what the next 17 steps are gonna be. And it's like, what if...

50:38
nothing is permanent. It's not a decision, it's just a choice. And I can make another choice a minute later and a minute after, right? Like, I'll just choose again. Not forever. Yeah, nothing is permanent. It's not life or death, you're not choosing. It's not a binary, it's really just like a choice at that point in time. Do you ever think about if you hadn't been in that room and...

51:08
listen to that woman tell her story, if your journey would be like it is right now.

51:16
That's a great question. I've never thought about it. And thinking about it right now, part of me says somehow I probably would have still ended up here because everything is now so aligned.

51:34
that like I probably would have gotten here to some other way, but I have no way of knowing, you know, but like

51:46
I don't know. Who knows where it may be? It's always interesting to me. I mean, if you've ever seen that Gwyneth Paltrow movie, Sliding Doors, in which she like missed the train and then got on the train and you see how different life is. But then by the end, there was like similarities and things that played out and you know. Well, and that's why too, like, so another thing that I've worked on since leaving my full-time job is I've become a meditator. Hmm, I don't get that. Okay, so I was the person who was like, I'm sorry, what? Like, no.

52:15
I'm you. I'm your old version. I was like, I'm sorry, like stop thinking about something. Like no, I need you to distract me to the point where I can then not think. Like, but think about nothing. Like how? That's not a thing. But in that learning to be silent and learning to just notice, first of all, I learned that that's not at all what meditation actually is. So there's that. But one of the things that I've also learned in sort of the

52:46
like the laws of the universe, is that if something's meant for you, even if you say no right now, it's gonna show up again. Because if it's meant for you and that's what's supposed to be, it's going to continue to be presented. And so that's also part of my learning to say no. It's like not right now. Right, but also like, so for example, like there was a speaking opportunity.

53:15
It was an unpaid thing. There was potential for exposure and whatever. And it was going to be like the day that I had to leave town to go to a conference. And it was like, why am I bending over backwards to make that happen? I can say no, and it's OK. There's sort of that, a lot of times, not saying no is like that fear of.

53:42
Like what could have been right exactly and so I think part of what I'm learning now is like I can say no because if Exposure to that audience or those people or whatever it is is What's needed or meant for me like it's gonna show up again somewhere else There yeah, I think I think it takes a little bit to get to that thousand percent. Oh my god understand that especially if you are like type a or you're very like

54:10
regimented and like everything has its answer and purpose. I used to be, so my therapist would tell you, I used to be so bad with loose ends. Like I needed answers, I needed, you know, like type A perfectionist, you know, doing all the things, you know, and now I mean I still identify as those things with a different kind of execution.

54:40
and a little bit more loose ends and those are okay because eventually they will tie, right? Because if it's meant to happen, those ends will be tied up. And it'll all end up clear at some point. And if right now it feels fun to do it, then I'll do it because it feels fun to do it right now. Good for you, yeah. Well, I wonder if you could go back to the version of Jen when she was like putting in the PTO time and was like, what the hell? Why am I asking for my own time?

55:09
Is there anything that this version of you with noodles on the wall would want to say to her? So.

55:18
Just do it. Just keep asking questions, keep following that gut instinct. Trust yourself. Yeah. Because it's all going to play out. The universe is going to provide. And you're doing amazing things. And I don't know that I could keep up with all the things that you're doing. But I put on you. It sounds like a lot more on the day to day. You know, it depends on any moment. Well, it's what I'm working on. But that's what keeps it fun. But it's impressive.

55:46
Yeah, and I love that you've found this space and you were in the right room at the right time to hear the right message that sparked your interest enough to be like, look, I'm gonna ride this full-time job for a while and I'm gonna figure out this other stuff. So now you can do, you can make as much spaghetti as you want and you can throw it wherever you want to. Gluten-free or not? I have to have gluten-free, but I don't like spaghetti anyway, so. Perfect.

56:13
If people want to like get in your orbit, you have so much going on. What's like the best way to connect with you and find you and be a part of your world? Yeah. Asal I actually have a little downloadable. It's not what to eat. It's how to eat that you can get there. But yeah, that puts you in my little orbit and all social media. I'm at gentrepik, J-E- And of course, my podcast is Salad with a Side of Fries.

56:43
Well, I will link to all those places in the show notes so people can connect with you. And I'm excited to start listening. For those of you who made it all the way to the end, I don't do any research before I have these conversations because I really want them to just unfold in the way that they do. So thank you for playing along, Jen. I appreciate you. Thank you, Matt. Such a great chat. Thank you. If you are listening and maybe something that Jen said, maybe you know someone in your life that's kind of just following the quote unquote rules that were put out for them and maybe something that Jen said.

57:11
would inspire those people. We'd love it if you share this episode with them. Do that, be a good friend. And for the rest of you, I will be back next week with a brand new episode of the Life Shift Podcast. Thanks again, Jenn. Thank you.