Chronic Pain & Childhood Trauma: Healing Power of Psychedelics | Alex Abraham

00:00
My whole body was pretty screwed up by this point. I was like 27 years old. I was really struggling. It became pretty clear after she asked me that. I was like, oh my God. Because you're very open with psyched MBNA and it kind of helps the trauma come up because it sort of helps disable the fear center in your body and your brain. When you can work through things in a more therapeutic way and kind of a less guarded way. I did it with a mask and music and a shaman and all that.

00:28
And so she asked me and it was like, yeah, unfortunately, you know, I realized I had been sexually abused and that's when everything started changing for me because by able to work on my abuse, you know, that's when I started working on all the feelings and all the shame that the abuse brought up for me and kind of all the fear and all the muscle tension that was coming out as repressed trauma. So I think that's when I really, that's when my life really started to change. Today's guest is Alex Abraham.

00:51
He's a man who's navigated his way through a sudden onset of chronic and debilitating pain, and he came out on the other side with an understanding of the links between physical symptoms and this emotional trauma that many of us carry. His story is one of courage and determination, especially determination, of confronting the most terrifying aspects of his past and, in doing so, finding a path to healing and really discovering who he is.

01:19
Alex's journey led him to unexpected revelation. His chronic pelvic floor issues were actually physical manifestations of a deeply buried childhood trauma. In the search for healing, he ventured into the realms of psychedelic assisted therapy and that's, I know, a sometimes controversial and emerging field of mental health treatment. But undergoing therapy sessions with substances like MDMA and psilocybin, Alex was able to access and process repressed memories and really reveal the root cause of his physical problems.

01:49
Alex's story is a powerful testament to this resilience that we talk about on this podcast. This transformative power of self-discovery because of that resilience and the potential of unconventional healing methods like what Alex used. It's an exploration of the depths of human pain, but also a beacon of hope for those that are wrestling with similar issues. This episode discusses childhood trauma and the resulting journey, so please take care if this topic is a trigger for you.

02:17
Before I jump into today's episode, I wanted to thank Tracy and Emily for supporting the show two episodes every single month. This helps with production costs and hardware costs and all the things that go into bringing these important stories to your ears. So thank you for that. If you are interested in directly supporting the show, please head to patreon.com forward slash the life shift podcast and you can find out all the information there. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to my friend, Alex Abraham.

02:46
I'm Matt Gilhooly, and this is the Life Shift, candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

03:05
Hello, my friends. Welcome to the LifeShift Podcast. I am here with Alex. Hello, Alex. Hello, Matt. Thanks so much for having me on. I really appreciate it and I'm excited to be here. Well, I did not pay him to say that, everyone. Alex was telling me that this is one of the first few podcasts that he's been on telling his story, but you have written a book about your story and we'll talk a little bit about that. But for those people that are listening, maybe for the first time or they've...

03:33
you've come to listen to Alex's story specifically, the LifeShift podcast really exists because of my own personal experiences. And so when I was eight years old, my mom was killed in an accident. And at that moment in my life, everything changed. And so growing up, I always felt like, well, first of all, growing up, I didn't really process things until I got a little bit older. And...

03:56
I always felt really alone in that circumstance. And so my whole goal with the Life Shift podcast is for people like you, Alex, and others to come on the show, share your story, so that someone out there listening, maybe they didn't have the exact same experience, but they had something where they're feeling less alone. And something you say today, Alex, kind of like makes them feel a little less alone or like they belong in a particular group or community of some sort. That's kind of the goal. So.

04:25
Thank you, before we even start talking, that you just want to be a part of this and share your story in the way that we're going to today. Absolutely. I'm excited to be here and I'm willing to do whatever I can to help any listeners. And that is commendable too, because sometimes people are really afraid to share their story and your story is a hard one to share, I would imagine, for a lot of people. Maybe it gets easier as you tell it more and as you kind of share it more. But...

04:52
the first stage of telling your story, and I'm not gonna give away anything yet, but I feel like that's a really, really hard first step to get that out there, but I'm sure you can attest to this, is that once you start getting it out there and sharing it more, it's such a healing experience for yourself to tell that story, knowing that you are also helping other people by sharing it, would you agree? Yeah, I certainly hope so. I've gotten some good feedback already from people sharing it, but I hope.

05:22
I hope there's more to come. I definitely think it's an important thing to share what happened to me just because I think it's unfortunately afflicts a lot of people around the country, around the world. I hope I can shed some light both on how I kind of have healed or healing from it and worked through a lot of it and where I was in my journey and the tools and techniques and tactics I used to work through it. Do you feel that in sharing that story, it helps heal you a little bit more each time?

05:50
Is there an element of that for you? I think it's definitely lost some emotional charge on it. It doesn't phase me the way it used to. I think it will be healing over time for sure. It's certainly not traumatizing now. I think I've just sort of, I've told it enough and thought about it enough that it's almost second nature to me now. So it must be healing in some way. Yeah, I guess so. Because I think it takes that sting away, which for so long, in your case is a little bit different and we'll go into it in a second, and it was kind of unveiled to you in a way.

06:20
But a lot of people live with like a stigma or a shame in some experiences similar to yours or just any kind of traumatic experience that they've had. And we absorb this kind of shame. Like even myself losing my mom, none of it was part of what I did or I did not make that happen. Yet I still assumed a shame as being a child with a dead parent or, you know, like there was these pieces this stigma that I felt that I absorbed. And so I would imagine that.

06:49
Well, the more I tell my story, the more I separate. Like you said, it doesn't have that charge anymore, which is such a nice feeling, I guess, in a weird way. Yeah, absolutely. So before you start divulging your story, maybe you could just tell us a little bit about who Alex is right now in twenty twenty four. Like, what do you do? Who are you? How do you exist in the world? Sure. So I'm 30 years old. I live in Austin, Texas.

07:13
So I'm finishing up this book and I'm trying to figure out kind of what I'm going to do next career wise once the book is released. I'm thinking about going in as maybe do an emotional health practitioner, kind of helping people integrate psychedelic experiences. And then I recently started taking steps towards starting a nonprofit to help people pay for psychedelic treatments. And then I'm still looking into more of an entrepreneurial path as well. I really like business and kind of sales and commerce. And so I'm definitely interested in selling a product or service in the more for-profit sector as well.

07:44
That's awesome. You're kind of like at a crossroads in your life, if you will, and you can choose whatever path you want to, or all of them if you want to. Yeah, I had a couple different jobs before this, none of which I really thought were a perfect fit for me. And so I'm using this book to kind of turn over a new leaf, so to speak. And we'll see what if anything comes from it. Hey, you never know this is your path to create and you can and do what you want with it. And that's kind of the exciting part. And I think a lot of us

08:10
have these limiting beliefs and it sounds like you are kind of just opening the door to whatever comes next and kind of play whatever cards you get dealt. Yeah, one of the things I'm working on in kind of my whole life is try to be less control oriented and try not to plan everything out and sort of, because I think when I'm trying to control everything, you know, it's hard to stay in the moment, it's hard to stay present, it's hard to stay relaxed and it's hard to be open to, you know, serendipity or new activities because I'm so kind of dug into like...

08:39
I'm going to do X, Y, and Z. And so I think kind of learning to let go a little bit. Not so much, I think it can get overdone. I see people like things will just happen. And I think things generally just don't happen. I mean, obviously steps are going to be taken towards doing things. But I think I was pretty screwed the other way. And then I was super concerned if anything even slightly deviated from what I thought should happen. And I would get angry or frustrated or like it's not happening quick enough. I think again, some of that is good. It's like kind of a spectrum or scale.

09:08
And I just I'm trying to be a little less toward the top of that scale. That makes sense. Oh, it totally makes sense. And I talked to a lot of people about kind of the way I grew up was very much with the checklist. It was just like a fake checklist, if you will, like society's checklist. Like I had to do things in a certain order. And if it didn't happen a particular way, like you explained, kind of like, oh, no, like I've lost control when really my path was just a little bit different. It was deviating from.

09:35
whatever I deemed as the checklist that I had to follow. So I totally relate to that. And I'm glad you're finding somewhere on the spectrum that's not so predetermined. Yeah, I think I really struggle with perfectionism and sort of, and a lot of that comes from the lack of control I had as a child and trying to get that control back through like checklists or perfectionism or planning or kind of rigidness and kind of structure-ness.

10:03
Yeah, I think a lot of people can relate to that. And I think that leads nicely into your story. I think that maybe you can kind of paint the picture of what your life was like leading up to really this significant shift in your life that started changing things for you to become this version of you. So go back as far as you need to or however you need to paint that picture. But we'd love to hear that before the before times of Alex.

10:30
Sure. So I was traveling abroad. I was 23 years old and I was riding a bike around the Netherlands and when I got off the bike, I started having these horrible pelvic floor problems. Pelvic floor is basically an area you really don't want to have problems in. So I was having trouble with ED, erectile dysfunction. I was having trouble defecating. It was really bad. It just was super tight. It wasn't necessarily... and nothing was structurally wrong, but I couldn't figure it out. So I saw probably 20 doctors around the country.

11:00
I had nerve injections at one point. They wanted to put like a stimulator in my pelvic floor to try to like loosen it like a pain simulator. I did a ton of pelvic floor physical therapy. I saw a bunch of acupuncturists. And this is all young 23? Yeah, 23. It is about 27. So it was about four years of I moved to New York to see a special special pelvic floor therapist and acupuncturists and that didn't work. So you know, I got Botox injection.

11:27
like all sorts of stuff. It was really miserable. So I was having to go to the bathroom all the time. I couldn't get a very good erection at all. It was painful. And so I wasn't sure what to do. And I was really kind of stuck because I was like, I can't live like this forever. This is super miserable. You know, I was really struggling in every way. I had no idea what to do. And so I heard from a couple other people, Tim Ferriss, the entrepreneur in particular, he had used psychedelics to heal from childhood sexual abuse. Unfortunately, he was sexually abused.

11:55
And so I told myself I was doing psychedelics for anxiety, because I was struggling with a bunch of anxiety and I heard this psychedelics could maybe help. It didn't have anything to do with my public floor at all, at least in my original definition, but it became pretty clear after a couple of sessions, my facilitator had kind of gotten tired of me kind of stalling. And during the MDMA-assisted psychotherapy session, you know, MDMA is kind of one of the psychedelics people use.

12:20
to kind of feel more open and sort of less guarded and kind of let go of trauma. And I can talk more about that, but it became pretty clear that I'd actually been horribly sexually abused by an authority figure when I was six years old, seven years old, in all the worst ways. And so, and that was why, you know, I had a bunch of repressed emotion or repressed trauma and it was literally like tightened in my pelvic floor area. I'd also had a bunch of other muscle tension too in my neck and my shoulders and my back. So my whole body was pretty screwed up by this point. I was like 27 years old.

12:50
I was really struggling. And so it became pretty clear after she asked me that, I was like, oh my God, because you're very open with psyched MDMA and it kind of helps the trauma come up because it sort of helps disable the fear center in your body, in your brain. And so when you kind of can work through things in a more therapeutic way and kind of a less guarded way. So I did it with a mask and like music and a shaman and all that. And so she asked me, it was like, yeah, unfortunately.

13:20
I realized I had been sexually abused and that's when everything started changing for me because by being able to work on my abuse, that's when I started working on all the feelings and all the shame that the abuse had brought up for me and kind of all the fear and all the muscle tension that was coming out as repressed trauma. So I think that's when my life really started to change. Yeah, I mean, you just gave us a lot. And first of all, I'm sorry for what you experienced, was, well, in a lot of ways, I mean, as a child especially, but then...

13:49
what you went through as a young 20-s when your life, I guess in that checklist that we were talking about, like, everyone's in their prime and doing all these things and here you are having to deal with physical ailments that you couldn't uncover, like you just didn't know why they were happening. But yet, you were open enough to try these psychedelics of some sort. Was there anything that, like, had you...

14:14
dabbled in that space or was it just really you heard someone else kind of talk about how it helped them and you were like I've tried everything else. I'm gonna jump into this because I think that's not something that normally people jump to right away Yeah, it's funny. I done MDMA a couple times at concerts and it was dramatically different experience. It's not the same at all You know, I think therapeutically it's much different because you're in a much different environment There's something about mindset and setting are super important for psychedelics

14:42
And I think in the college years when I did MDMA, I wasn't in the mindset to work through any of this stuff. It was like to feel better at a party. Different goal. Yeah, exactly. But I think in that setting where it's like very quiet and like the shamanic music and you have an eye mask on, which is super important because it helps you stay in your thoughts and in your feelings instead of like concentrating on external things. So that part and then kind of the mindset that I was going in to kind of work through stuff I think was a big differentiator for me.

15:10
But again, I was just going into to do psychedelics originally for anxiety because I was struggling with that. It wasn't even to do anything on my public floor. I didn't think they weren't related at all. Did you do any kind of therapy before that? Like when you were going through all the different treatments and stuff like that? Did you do any talk therapy of any sort? Or did you just go right into this? I dabbled in talk therapy for a while. I've been kind of unhappy for a long time, but it really was totally ineffective for me until I started doing psychedelics.

15:37
Psychedelics really started to open me up. I had a very strong ego structure because after trauma, your kind of fault mode really tightens up. I guess what that sort of means is you're kind of less open, you're kind of less in touch with your feelings, I guess, and more kind of dissociated. I think that the psychedelics started kind of breaking down and reorienting my ego structure. I started to feel more open in therapy. I think one of the best things about psychedelics is it opens the door for better therapy.

16:06
Once I started doing psychedelics, that's when I started really making progress in therapy. That's when I realized I actually was really resentful of my parents. I didn't really quite get that before because they had missed my abuse. I was really resentful. I was really angry a lot. And before psychedelics, I was more just kind of dissociated. I was very unemotional, kind of very almost like, non. Yeah, like I didn't cry. I didn't feel much happiness. I just kind of, you know.

16:32
whatever, and I think really the psychedelics really started opening me up emotionally. So that was a huge thing for me. What kind of time period is that? From when you started going for anxiety and from the beginning of that to when kind of the key unlocked these memories that you had really suppressed clearly. Yeah. What's that time period look like for you?

16:59
So I did my first psychedelic session almost a little more than three years ago now. And so it became clear I'd been abused about six months after that. So after my first session, I started having even more anxiety, not less. Because all the feelings and kind of emotions I'd been pushing down started coming back up. And I started feeling really anxious about my body. And my body was almost in even worse shape than when I started doing psychedelics originally.

17:25
And then I was crying a lot more, like I didn't know what to do. I was very disconnected. And then I blacked out the whole second time I did psychedelics. So that was really bad. I was working with a pretty inexperienced person. It really was not a good fit. And so one thing I would recommend, if you're going to do psychedelics, I think it's really good to have a good guide, someone that you trust and have rapport with and gets you.

17:48
through your research? Yeah, because I didn't do that the second time and it really went quite badly. I almost went to have to go to an urgent care facility because I was so kind of a mess. But then after that, I kind of found a more experienced shaman and someone I felt connected with. And I think in that safe space, I was able to start pulling up my abuse. And that's shortly after that. So my fourth session, actually, is when the abuse came up. So I mean, I guess it was fairly.

18:14
And I, before we get into that specifics, it's just so interesting to me to think about being like a shell of a kind of like, the way you describe yourself was kind of like a shell of a person, like you were doing all the human things, but you weren't feeling all the human things. You were just kind of going through the motions of living, if you will, not happily, because you were in pain. Then the idea of going for your first time and like things crack open a little bit.

18:41
I can imagine what that swell of overwhelming, I haven't felt these things for 20-something years and now I'm in a flood of it. Is that kind of like what it was, that's what I'm picturing, so I don't know if that's what it was like, but it sounds like it was very similar. Absolutely, yeah, I think it was a real red flag that I was pretty emotional and I cried a lot as a kid, but by the time I was like 25, 26, I just was pretty like, I had family members that had gotten really sick and I would just kind of, you know.

19:10
pretty nonchalant about it. So I was all thinking, no feeling at all. And I think that's a really tough way to go through life. I think the intellect and thinking is only a part of a whole person. And that's something I've kind of learned over time. That's why I think talk therapy is an important part of the toolkit, but I think it's usually not, it's necessarily not sufficient, I think, for full healing because I think it's all intellectual. How do you think about things? And I think it's really hard to get in touch with those deeper feelings.

19:39
through talk therapy. I mean, some people can get there. I couldn't get there. And I needed the psychedelics, particularly psilocybin, to work through that. So I think the psychedelics really started opening up emotionally. And at first it was really hard, but I do feel more in touch with how I feel and my emotions than I ever felt before psychedelics. And I think that's been really good for me. It almost sounds like that example you gave of the scale.

20:03
of like your checklist kind of like the way you change it's the same thing on on the therapy like depending on how much you've closed off or how much you don't allow yourself to feel certain things is kind of the level of which therapy will work for you whichever kind you go like and I feel like it I'm picturing this like sliding scale that's going back and forth before you say anything about you know this this moment you uncovered when you look back like the 25 year old version of Alex

20:33
Did you have memories of your childhood and certain ones were just kind of, they didn't exist? Or did you just not really remember your childhood at all because of suppressed feelings and stuff? I think I was just missing certain ones, but they were big ones. But also I think I thought I remembered a lot more than I actually remembered. People weren't really asking me what my first or second grade years were like, so I think I just told myself that.

21:00
that I remembered a lot of stuff, but I realized pretty quickly I actually didn't remember that much. And I think a lot of people don't really remember pre, you know, too much pre third grade kind of feeling, you know, like it's just not naturally so people don't naturally ask about it because we just assume that we don't realize these things. But we do know that things that you experience kind of really seat themselves deeply in someone and those are the things that

21:29
maybe our body chooses and helps us forget for reasons, but once you started unlocking that, how did you start processing that or healing from that? Because I feel like that's really big and for someone that really hadn't felt for a long time, it's overwhelming. How did you approach healing outside of even the psychedelic part? How did you go on?

21:56
with your daily life. Yeah, I think integration has been a huge piece for me. The integrating the psychedelic experiences. You know, the psychedelics themselves are only like a small piece. I think they just kind of open the door for healing. So I found a shaman and I do holotropic breath work or kind of energy work with her every week. I still do that. And I was doing, I've been doing that for years. I do EMDR, eye movement desensitization reprocessing. That's a more common therapeutic technique. I think it's been pretty helpful for me.

22:24
I've heard a few of my guests use that to uncover some things from their past as well. Yeah, I actually think the breath work and psychedelics have been more important for me, but EMDR has been good. And then I see a body worker and I think kind of like when she massages me, you know, sometimes I cry during that and kind of when she pushes on certain parts. And I think that's been helpful to get more in touch with my body and sort of because my body was very disconnected, very dissociated. And I think as I've gotten more in touch with myself, more of my body has come online.

22:53
And so I think the body work has been really helpful there. And then I recently started taking up dancing. So that's been good too, to kind of keep getting in touch with my body and getting, I was very disembodied now, I'm trying to become more embodied. And so I also see an intimacy coach as well. I've been having trouble with intimacy my whole life. In retrospect, that was the biggest red flag I've been abused. I was really struggled with sex and kind of with women and kind of that emotional component.

23:21
And so I've been working with her for a long time now too. So, and then I've been doing kind of some traditional talk therapy along the way as well. So I think those kind of, I guess five things would be kind of some of the bigger things I do. I've done a lot of acupuncture too and some yoga, but I think generally like. You really dove in. Yeah, yeah, I was committed. I think the holotropic breath work and the psychedelics have been the most important for me.

23:46
So thinking to that day where things started to flood back.

23:53
How, I don't even know how to ask this question because I can imagine the devastation that comes out or it would for me, I think. Was there, what was that initial reaction to that? How do you question yourself? Do you, was that real? Did that actually happen? Why haven't I remembered this? What was that experience like for you? Yeah, there was a lot of shock.

24:17
I think I'd already started having inkling suspicions about this from the section or two prior. So I guess it was a little less shock. I think they've been a little preparing myself. I was Googling the individual's name every day because I was like, maybe it was him. I'm not sure yet. I'd read a lot of books about trauma. But yeah, it started to feel like once I said I'd been abused, it started to feel like I was getting abused all over again in terms of kind of body sensations and kind of felt like...

24:46
it was happening again and I was being re-traumatized. And then there was a bunch of kind of gagging, just all sorts of stuff that was like really bad. So I think at that point it became kind of hard to doubt. There was like a lot of sensations there that you really just, I just knew it was, it had to be like, there was just too much body and sensation stuff for it not to be true. It's interesting.

25:10
because I think there's probably a lot, and I don't know, I'm making assumptions here, I think there's a lot of people that would feel these things and then be too afraid to move forward, to move through, and be more inclined to push down, to push back. You know what I'm saying? So how do you find the fortitude to push through, to continue?

25:34
moving through all that because it sounds terrible. It sounds absolutely miserable and horrible and something that I don't wish on anyone. So how do you find that strength to move through that at that point in time? Yeah, I think the NDMA is really good at kind of feeling safe. You know, even scary stuff in the moment. Like I was saying some really scary stuff. I had a lot of scary flashbacks, but it disables your fear center in such a way that you can kind of talk and think about that stuff without it sort of

26:04
just destabilizing you or anything. And then also, I had been working with the shaman for a while, and she was there when this was all going on. We were engaging. So it would have been kind of tough to claim it didn't happen after that. We talked about it in pretty graphic detail. So I guess I could have stopped seeing her or whatever. But I think a lot of people might. Yeah. I mean, I was having such body issues at that point. I think I wanted this to come out in a deep way because I couldn't live like this anymore.

26:33
I'm still having a lot of body issues, but they've gotten a lot better as I've started working through this stuff. I think I wanted to heal. There was some part of me that was like, you know what, I don't want to live like this anymore. This sucks. There was no benefit to living like this. When you're having ED and having trouble going to the bathroom, it's not like... I think the alternatives sound a lot better at that point. Even working through your abuse is better than that, I think. So yeah, I was like, you know what? I think it's good to...

27:00
So yeah, I really dove I went all the way you did you went all the way out You know, I feel you gotta go either all in or all out. I went all in Yeah, and I mean and you lived a lot of your life all out of it So it kind of makes sense of like you got a taste of like a human experience as bad as that piece was like The feelings and the things that maybe you weren't feeling for so long just in general whether that was extreme anger whether that was extreme sadness whether that was like

27:28
extreme fear, all those pieces, it sounds like you got all at once. And maybe there was part of you that was like, okay, if I can figure out how to manage these, like, so that they become eventually, not so extreme, but rather just like normal, kind of moving through life emotions, like I can see how someone would jump into it. But man, you, you really went into it and good on you, because I think I don't know, I feel like a lot of people I know would

27:56
maybe continue dipping their toe in or back and out. Like, can't deal with that. And maybe it's also generational. I don't know if that's maybe something that plays into it. I'm about a generation separated from you. And I feel like the people that I grew up with, like, for instance, when my mom died, I was eight. People around me were just like, let's make him happy, he'll forget, you know, kind of thing. Like, it wasn't like process this, it was just.

28:23
We need to make them happy. And it's just because they didn't know what to do. They didn't know how to move through that. And I think, you know, maybe the younger generations, even now, like younger than you, are willing to face these things head first and see people like you going, okay, he's still working through things, but he's working through it. And he's doing it with like confidence and, you know, confidence in himself because he knows he can get to a place where he wants to be and kind of defining yourself. I don't know if any of that.

28:51
of make sense in what you've experienced. Absolutely. I think there's a lot more research done on trauma and how to work through trauma and how trauma works. I do think some of it's gotten over the top. I don't think everybody needs to see a therapist all the time. I think therapy speak can be kind of weaponized. You trigger me, so you should stop doing that. That's actually not how it works. If you feel triggered about something, it's ultimately up to you to either like...

29:18
get out of that trigger or work through that trigger yourself. It's not like a power thing. But having said that, I think people like the Bissell Vanderklok, the guy who wrote The Body Keeps the Score, Nicole Lepera, Peter Levine, I think they've all done a lot of great work and kind of more research on how trauma works, the stores in the body, how to work through it, how to feel those emotions, whether that's through breath work or psychedelics or whatever other modality you might use.

29:46
So I think people are understanding and ready and kind of how this works. And whereas I think my parents generation, they just like drank a lot instead, or they like did a bunch of drugs, or like they dove into work, or some other way. Ignored it. Yeah, or some other way to dissociate or disconnect from yourselves. And ultimately, I think that led to a lot of screwed up people and families, frankly. But I think we're starting to work through that now. As a society, I think people are starting to wake up. And I think it's unfortunate because I

30:16
there's still a kind of stigma around therapy and working through trauma in certain circles. Especially psychedelics now too. Yeah. I feel like there's getting more research and whatnot about that, but I still think that people see that as a stigma or some kind of taboo topic. Yeah, I did at the beginning, but as I've worked through more, I just don't care. Whatever, man. Because it works for you. Yeah, nobody means or should or has to do any of this stuff, but I do think it should be available,

30:46
should be available for people that want it and they should know it's an option if they wanna work through their stuff that way. So I definitely support legalization in certain contexts, like in a therapeutic context. I don't know if you necessarily should be able to buy like mushrooms at the grocery store, but I definitely think like with a guide and like a controlled setting, they can really help people. So I wanna talk about my experience because I think, I hope my experience can encourage someone else to work through their stuff the way like Tim Ferriss did for me.

31:15
the important piece of your story is that you leaned in and trusted yourself enough. Like you decided to make these choices and then when it got really scary, you kept going. And you just described all the things that you're still doing years later to find you, find the version of you that you want to exist and work through the world in. Right? I mean, it's...

31:44
It sounds like it didn't just snap of a finger. You let it all out, and now you're the perfect human that you've always wanted to be, right? There's always work to do. Yeah, I've worked harder on this than anything, frankly. I've done like 20. Good, it's you. I mean, it's your life, right? Yeah, I've done like 20 sessions at this point of MDMA, assisted psychotherapy, psilocybin mostly. Those are by far the two. I had a bad experience with ketamine. I don't think that's as good.

32:11
The way I did it was kind of as an outpatient procedure and it was really didn't go well. And then I've done a little bit of LSD too, which I think is okay in certain circumstances, but mainly I think MDMA and psilocybin are the two that are gonna be legalized and most used to help people heal childhood trauma. So those two I've done like nine times each. And so I really have a good sense for those two and I'd be able to work through a lot of things with both those tools. So they both really helped me. Where on your journey through all of this did you start to notice like,

32:40
body changes in which you were maybe dealing with less of the issues that you had for your earlier 20s? Yeah, I think almost immediately I noticed some changes. I couldn't raise my shoulders over my head without them cracking out of place. That went away eventually. Then even just, but I'm still having some neck issues and some, frankly, pelvic issues that I'm still working through, which I think is fortunately is a testament to how bad sexual

33:09
child sexual abuse can be, to be honest. So I think it's really unfortunate. And I think another reason I want to talk about my story is I do think this stuff happens. And I think by talking about it, it can happen less. So I want to raise awareness about, again, I think anybody that's in a position of authority around children, I'm trying to think of the right way to phrase this. Not necessarily that they're like a danger or anything, but it does happen in those circumstances. That's what happened to me. I was groomed by an authority figure.

33:37
So it was really not good. And I think people have this idea that like, this could happen like somewhere else, but it couldn't happen to my community or to my child or whatever. And at least in my experience, that wasn't true. Well, I mean, I think like you said, the more people are talking about this, that it exists, and we're not just brushing it under the rug and pretending that this doesn't happen. I think the fewer people go through experiences, even if they've experienced this.

34:07
they don't spend their life ending up where you are right now having to unravel everything, if you will. So the more we talk about it, the less it will occur. But if it does occur, the more we talk about it, the more healing people can do earlier. Exactly. So it's like a two pronged approach sort of. Yeah. And you earlier, you said that, that, you know, when those things started to come out, you had a lot of resentment for your parents and you had a lot of or

34:35
towards your parents and not helping you in this way. Do you still look at that in the same way? Do you have different feelings about that now that you've been a couple years through this process? Or do you still kind of, because you were just like, your parents' generation, they didn't do anything about anything, they just kind of did this. Yeah, I think, I still don't think they did a great job. I'm not gonna pretend that my mind has changed on that. And I still...

35:03
I still would want to raise my kids in a different way than they did. But that being said, I've let go a lot of that anger. It still comes out every occasionally. I'm definitely not perfect in that regard. Yeah, I think ultimately I'm on my own journey and it's important to take responsibility for yourself. Not necessarily that any of this was my fault or this was becapping because of me.

35:27
But just that it is my responsibility to work through, it's my responsibility to heal from, if I choose to be my responsibility. Again, a lot of people don't take responsibility for themselves and I feel bad for them because I lose a lot of power and responsibility and there's a lot of disempowerment by blaming everybody else. Not that there's responsibility for you to bear as a six-year-old though, I think. Sure. But now, you have this responsibility to yourself to heal from that. Exactly. And so, yeah, again, do I always take 100% responsibility all the time? No.

35:57
You know, there are times I still feel blame or resentment or whatever. Because you're a human. Exactly. So, but I've gotten a lot better on that. And I think I'll continue to improve in the years ahead. And there are, before, you know, the first year or so, I took like, you know, it was everybody else's fault. Like, this is bullshit. And, but I've gotten a lot better about that. The first year of your, like, your... Therapy, yeah. Okay. Once I started working through the abuse. Yeah. Well, I think that takes time because...

36:25
first of all, like a flood of memories and emotions and the things that the byproducts of all of those are probably really overwhelming for the first long period of time I'm imagining. Yeah, it was horrible. Especially once I started doing psilocybin, I got even more in touch with how I felt about all this and there was crying and there was sadness and there was a lot of bad feelings. You can't be expected to become like.

36:53
so responsible for, you know, like you can't take all of it on at once. There is a blame to be had. There's a blame to other people as well. So it's not something that that experience, especially and the subsequent experiences, because once you push back that, you're preventing yourself from doing other things throughout your entire life. So I'm sure there's this like connection trickle effect of all the things that happened to you.

37:21
or you did or you chose to do because of that one event way back in your early life, or not one event, but that experience, that trauma that you experienced then affected everything after. Yeah, unfortunately it was actually, it was a lot of events, but yeah, I think it absolutely affected me. I think it totally altered my life. Right, still, it always will. Yeah, that hurts. I mean, I think there'll always be a scar there.

37:49
I look at some decisions I made, what I made those differently, what I've had more girlfriends, who knows? So yeah, those are questions I'll never get the answer to or how I would be a different person today if this hadn't happened. I don't know. No doubt. It's not really useful to speculate on these sorts of things. I'm not going to pretend I don't do it, or I didn't do it.

38:12
But you know, it is what it is at this point. And I think it ultimately definitely altered my life trajectory. I certainly wouldn't be writing a book about this stuff or being on podcasts like this one had this had this not happened. So, you know, maybe it's maybe it's kind of blaze the trail for for new opportunities and new things to come. But I think one thing I've always tried to remember is is beneath all blame is usually hurt. You know, it's usually kind of sadness.

38:37
So every time I think about blame, I think, well, what am I really sad about here? What is, or ultimately anger usually is often sadness too. What am I angry about? Beneath that is what am I really hurting or sad about? So every time I try to reframe that and it kind of gets me more in touch with how I really feel.

39:03
biking through the Netherlands. What's significant about that moment that that's where you kind of chose to start? Yeah, that's just when I started having pelvic floor problems. It started then? Yeah, like I literally got off a bike and was like, something feels weird here. Wow, so nothing before that? I wasn't having any, I think I was having a lot of emotional, but I wasn't having any body issues at that point. Gotcha. You know, I wasn't having any ED or anything like that, but the second I got off the bike, it just felt, it felt...

39:32
different. I almost tweaked something. It just kept getting worse and worse for months. I didn't know what to do. Then I was just stuck. That's when things really started to take a nosedive for me, actually. It's interesting. You mentioned it, the body keeps the score, thinking about how maybe that was your body. Yeah, exactly. I need to raise the flag now because we need to do something about this.

40:02
and let's go. Yeah, I mean, that was the triggering moment for me, but there probably would have been another one had that not happened. You know, I think it was gonna come up eventually. Like, it was bad enough where I don't think I could have suppressed it for my whole life. Did you have any triggering, like, emotional moments like that, or was it really that physical one was like, your body knew that you weren't really gonna listen to the emotional ones. You needed to be in some pain, or, you know, something like that. Yeah, muscle tension, yeah. I think I was talking, you know, I don't think there's anything else that could have.

40:31
set me on this path, there's certainly no emotional issue would have set me there. I think it had to be physical. It had to be something around ED, because that's such a problem for mid-20 year old. Early 20s. Yeah, I think that's what happened. I couldn't handle it. It's interesting, it's just really because you were probably conditioned, and here I am, I'm making assumptions again, but growing up after an experience like that with your parents either.

40:58
helping you push that to the side, but you were probably conditioned to not feel certain things or not feel emotion, you know, like you were suppressed those things, don't feel a certain way, don't think about this, don't go in that direction. And so yeah, your body was like, let's go. Yeah, yeah, something's gotta get this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, thank you body, right? I mean, had it waited another 10 years, you would have started, you know, like,

41:27
This is, it's terrible. Like I don't wish it on anyone, but at the same time, I'm glad you got the trigger. I'm glad you were like, let me go to every doctor under the sun first to figure out what needs to happen. And then like have this inkling to be like, okay, well, is there a different way that I can approach my anxiety? My, how I'm feeling, like I'm feeling really overwhelmed here, but maybe your body knew that you needed to do that because you needed to let this out.

41:56
It's very just weird to think about. Yeah, I think it's almost like I had to try everything before I tried the right thing. Try all the wrong things first. I saw a ton of urologists and they were all kind of useless. They were like, either this will go away soon or you could be permanently damaged here. They had no idea. I think one thing that people get is most medical doctors, they don't really understand emotions or psychology or trauma very well at all. I don't think there's a good, there's not a good mix there.

42:25
between that kind of emotional and the MD model. So it's really kind of, they're very siloed. And so they were all like, injections or like, I don't know. Some of them did recommend talk therapy, which I guess in a way was sort of the right approach. I was too far gone for that to be really effective. But nobody recommended psychedelics or any of the kind of other healing modalities beyond talk therapy. But most of them were, most of the MDs, I want to be clear, were like totally just.

42:55
pointless. I saw... Not helpful. Yeah, they would prescribe like Viagra to try to get my confidence back or some other crazy stuff like that. It's very, I would imagine, book smart heavy in a way. Here's the... We're prescribing whatever this says is supposed to happen. And when you don't have those...

43:20
answers, you kind of go to what you've tried before, essentially. Yeah. So, you know, I mean, good on you, though, I think you're blazing a trail of like, trusting yourself enough to discover what works for you. Yeah. Because like I said before, when you I don't know people I know, I feel like if you did that first session or the fourth session and things started cracking open and getting really overwhelming.

43:47
A lot of people are running for the hills, and good on you for leaning in, not just leaning in, running in. Yeah, thank you. I think I've always been sort of like that, but also I had really good qualified people around me. I don't think it would have come up that way if I didn't have a really good shaman I trusted that I worked with every week, and I didn't have a good therapist at that time. But it's still really easy to not go back. That's true. I think I was just really motivated, and why not? I'm only gonna be here once.

44:14
like in this life. So I might as well try to be the best I can be in all phases. To be clear, not like every second of every day, because I think that hustle culture gets kind of over the top. Like there are days, you know, where I'm not the best I can be and that's cool. But I think in a longer term sense, like in a growth, like over a lifetime sense, I think it makes sense to try and grow. You know, why not? And one other misconception I want to clear up is I would totally see doctors if I like broke my arm or like what broke my collarbone or like they need to like, I think they're really good at like

44:43
fixing acute issues, like if I got in a car crash. But for chronic lifestyle or emotional stuff, or nutritional stuff, I think they're really not. MDs is a group. I'm sure there are exceptions here. I'm just speaking in generalities. And your own experience. Yeah, my own experience. I think none of that stuff they're very good at, at least the ones I saw. And you have a really.

45:07
I mean, I guess it's not unique, but you have a unique, probably something they don't see all the time situation. And so, you know, you've clearly you're clearly blazing a path and you're creating awareness for people that are also experiencing chronic things that are unexplainable until we kind of dig in and do what you did. But I'm curious of what made you want to write your book.

45:34
Yeah. So I actually, I tried to hold my abuser accountable and it was not successful, at least so far. So that's one of the reasons I want to write it. I'm going to be honest. I am hoping to continue to try to hold them accountable. So we'll see what happens there. Is that for you or is that for justice in general? Both, I'd say. I know I wasn't the only one. There's kind of, I can't really talk about, but I do know that for sure. And I think he's not a good guy. And I think it would be cool if he were to be held accountable.

46:04
So we'll see what happens to that. I don't name him civically in the book, but I think it's, yeah, it's not that hard to figure out. It's kind of, for people to read the book, I think they'll get that, get why. And then I wanted to write the book because I'm not sure what I'm gonna do next with my career. So this could be a good way to kind of figure that out. And then of course, to help people, you know, like I think there are a lot of people struggling with childhood trauma and sexual abuse or chronic pain. And I do think this book could potentially lay out a roadmap for how you can work through all those things.

46:34
So I think that was really good. And then I think I really wanted to have this life, this chapter of my life sort of written down. I think I'm gonna show this book, if I have any grandchildren, I would hope that maybe they'll wanna read it. I certainly, it'll be therapeutic to show my friends and family. Some of them have already read it and they've said it was powerful, so we'll see. But yeah, so I think those four big reasons, for next steps for me to hold my abuser accountable, to help other people and to kind of categorize and.

47:02
and kind of a therapeutic way this part of my life. So all four of those reasons, even one of them would be enough for me to write it, I think, but all four made it a pretty clear no-brainer. Yeah, how did you approach it? Is it structured more like memoir? Is it more self-help? How do you categorize it for other people? It is entirely a memoir. I was gonna do some more kind of knowledge share, so to speak, about psychedelics.

47:29
I think it's a little bit of that, but it's through conversation and through my own experience. It's like in an I fashion, the whole book is basically about me and my journey. It is very much a classic memoir in that sense. I think it's important though. I think that's where people get inspired. Just like you listening to Tim Ferriss and the little seeds that he planted by sharing his story. He wasn't telling you what to do. He wasn't giving you instructions on...

47:59
what to do next. It was just really you heard his story and you were like, maybe I should try something. So I think you're probably doing that with your book. That's certainly my hope. And I think people learn through stories and through others versus like facts. You know, I can say all I can do and I think facts are important for sure. You know, I think I definitely took away some facts like MDMA and secure rate for PTSD is way higher than talk therapies. And so that's that's a fact. But I think ultimately

48:27
my experience, my story and stories like mine are a better way or a more impactful way maybe to help other people in their journey. Yeah, because that's how we connect. We connect through stories. We don't connect through facts. We don't relate to people through facts. We relate through their stories. Someone reading your book might not have had the exact same experience, but they might have felt very similar to the way that you felt or the way that you describe.

48:54
and that's where the connection happens, and then that's where they get inspired to maybe try something that worked for you, or avoid things that didn't work for you, or whatever it may be. But you're right, it's all about the story, so I'm glad to hear that you did it in that way, because one, it just sounds really healing for the individual. I hope you felt some kind of catharsis getting it all out onto paper. Yeah, I think so. I feel a lot of terror.

49:23
The book isn't out yet. The book is coming out in September. Until that happens, and frankly, I just think I'm just going to feel scared about it for a while. There's some- There's some vulnerability to it, for sure. Yeah. There's some strong accusations in there that I believe to be the truth, but are certainly disputed. We'll see what happens, but I'm excited about it, too. I think it will be good. One thing I do want to bring up is-

49:50
is I think a lot of people does seem like they're struggling with chronic pain or chronic muscle tension. And I don't want to claim that, oh, it's always like repressed emotions. But I do think in a lot of cases, if you read some of the work of this guy, John Sarno, you know, he healed his back pain by working through repressed feelings of anger and stuff. And I think there are a lot of people, you know, whether that's feeling violated or feeling sadness or whatever. And that does come out in like a tight back or a stiff neck or

50:19
tough shoulder. And so I think if you are struggling with that stuff, psychedelics, they could be a good fit for you. You know, that would be, that would be a, because I think chronic pain sucks. Like it's really hard as an experiencer that I know a lot of other people are, have been suffering with that stuff too. And that doesn't necessarily have to be from sexual abuse. You know, it could be for all kinds of trauma. So Well, yeah. And chronic pain sucks. Yes. But also when you

50:48
do all that you think you can to try to heal that through traditional, if you will, modalities that you kind of mentioned that you tried in those three years before you kind of ventured into your anxiety healing, which turned out to be much bigger than that. It's really disheartening, right? Because you go from doctor to doctor to this to that to this, and they're just like, I don't know, try this. I don't know, try this.

51:16
and then you find what you need to. So I think it's important because, I don't know. I don't know if people are just, ignorant is not the right word, but I think that people don't want to believe that it could be something like that. Yeah. Like a suppressed trauma or something that makes them very vulnerable and that people might find out because we carry the shame with us, whatever that might be. But I think your story kind of opens that door a little bit. It's just like.

51:46
Look, things happen and sometimes they really suck like what happened to you. Terrible should never happen to anyone. Look what he did, look what he's doing to move through this. You too can do this kind of thing. Yeah, I hope so. That's certainly my hope. I think it's very hard to tap into that kind of unconscious layer of trauma. And I think psychedelics are really your way to do that. Like you really get into a layer that like, that's like.

52:10
you didn't know was there. I said stuff on psychedelics that I was like, wow, I had so much shame and I was screaming I wanted to die and all this stuff. So it was really horrible, but I didn't even know I felt that way. And then on psychedelics, it became really clear that there was a part of me that I kind of pushed down and soared away that was coming out now that was all bad. But once you start working through that or have that stuff come out, you can start working through it and start forming a new internal narrative for yourself around love and self-acceptance and things.

52:41
I think people should know that that is an option for them and that that can be something. We're not saying this is what you must do. You must go do this. If you don't want to, then that's your choice. But also, there are choices that you can make that might be similar to what Alex experienced or in a positive way. So find the trust in yourself to seek out what works for you is really, I think, the message. It's not like go.

53:10
go do psychedelics, it's find what works for you and heal. Yeah, if it calls to you, great. If it doesn't, that's cool too. I think it's good for people to know it's an option. Well, even in your example, you said that you do body work and you do breath work and you do dance stuff to get more embodied and all these pieces that you're doing. You're seeking out things that are not all psychedelic. You're finding all the things that work for you that are helping you heal. And that's really like.

53:39
everyone listening, if you feel like any inkling of something that you need to heal, find what works for you. And don't judge yourself for whatever you choose. Just do it. Find what works. I think psychedelics is just one part of the toolkit. It's probably the most important part for me for sure. But it's just one part. Yeah, no, I think it's important. And thank you for sharing your story in the most open way. I think that's important. And good on you for living out loud and living...

54:08
this way because I think there's a lot of things that you said that a lot of other people would choose not to out of fear out of shame that they've taken on themselves. So I applaud you for just being so like you. Thank you, Matt. And I would say, I'm going to be dead at some point. So and whether the saying is matter a long time from now. Yeah.

54:37
why not say what you think? Not to be necessarily mean way. I don't just go tell people they're overweight. But in general, I think part of feeling good about yourself is telling the truth and saying what you believe and what you think. So I try to do that. Well, I think it's important. You're living as authentically, I know a lot of people hate that word, but you're living as real.

55:02
as you can in the body that you have now with the mind that you have now. And that'll change as you go through more modalities and the things that you want to try to become even more yourself. So I applaud you for just being you and like fully embracing that because not a lot of people do that. Yeah, I don't think at the end of my life, I'm gonna look at like, wow, I wish I, you know, held back more, you know, maybe that's true. But I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think a lot of people feel that way. So

55:30
Thank you for that. I know your book's not coming out until September, but how can people get connected with you and get in your orbit? Sure, I'm on Instagram. I just started making videos a little while ago. I'm going to have a website pretty soon. So Instagram is alexabraham1122. So you can definitely reach me there. And feel free to get in touch with me with any questions at all. I'm writing this book in part to answer questions. So if you have any, hit me up. Awesome. We will put those.

55:59
those links or that link in the show notes so people can connect with you in an easy way. Before I let you go, I'd love to ask you a question that I ask everyone and it's not possible. But knowing what you know now, all the experiences that you've had leaning into these different modalities and finding out more about yourself and about who you are now and who you are because of those things from the past. Is there anything that you would say to Alex walking into your first?

56:26
MDMA session or your first psychedelic session? Is there anything you'd want to tell them? Um, I honestly, I think if I'd really known how bad it was going to be, I'm not sure I would have started. But I so I would say, I maybe it'd be okay. But I guess I guess I'd be grateful that I wouldn't tell them anything. Because I think it'd be it'd be like, almost like if you knew what you're getting into, you never would have gone like almost like you go on a hike and like you're halfway up.

56:53
And you're like, I'm so I never would have started this hike if I'd known how long it was. But now that I'm halfway through, like I can't turn around now. So that would that would be lame. So I guess I guess anything. Yeah, I guess I would I would maybe give him a hug instead. That hug would be much more valuable than than any sort of like advice. You're not the only person to say that. I think there are so many of us that have experienced a trauma of some sort and.

57:23
really needed a hug. We really needed someone to see us to know that we existed in a way. So I think that's a perfect response. I kind of pictured you when you were kind of talking about you wouldn't tell him anything. I kind of pictured you just watching him walk in with pride. Good on you. Thank you. Because honestly, good on you. I'm so...

57:53
inspired by your willingness to find the peace within yourself in a way that is healthy and will give you the best life that you can. So, you know, thank you for just being a part of this journey. I think it will help people, you know, listening that might feel alone or don't know what to do next. So just thank you. Yeah, thanks so much for having me on that. I'm super grateful. And I hope I hope I can.

58:21
help people on their own journey. Oh, no doubt, you will. And anyone listening, if you want to connect with Alex, please reach out to him on Instagram. When his book comes out, you'll be connected on Instagram. So you'll know exactly when it comes out and how you can get access to that. And if you are listening and maybe someone you know has experienced something similar or might be inspired by something Alex said, please share this episode with them. We'd love that. And

58:48
With that, I'm gonna say goodbye and I'll be back next week with a brand new episode of the Life Shift podcast. Thanks again, Alex. Thanks, Matt, really appreciate it.