Beyond Corporate Boundaries: An Awakening & Spiritual Career Shift | Rebecca Kirk

00:00
I realised I was in this place called the neutral zone, which is the space in between one, your old identity and the new identity that you've yet to take on board. And I, before I recognised what was going on, I was wondering around the beaches and the shopping malls of Sydney thinking, what have I done? There was, there was an element of regret. I thought I'd given up a great job, great salary. What am I doing here?

00:27
It was kind of like the 40 days, 40 nights I had to go through to then reconnect or connect even more deeply to who I truly was or am. Today's guest is Rebecca Kirk. She's a spiritual career coach. She's also an author and really in her day to day she helps others work towards finding deeper purpose and meaning in their careers. Before she started working in this coaching role, Rebecca spent around 15 years in the corporate world.

00:57
and like many of us get caught up in, she wasn't interested in climbing the corporate ladder. She wasn't interested in getting caught in the office politics. Instead, she was really looking for a richer experience of life. And that meant a deeper connection to her work. In today's episode, Rebecca shares her decision to take a career break and she went to Sydney, Australia. And this break turned out to be where that pivotal moment happened that reshaped her life.

01:25
We talk about the awakening that she experienced there in Sydney and the practices that guided her towards this inner peace that she finds now. And we talk a little bit about the neutral zone that she found herself in. Her journey is an example of why we should always aim towards aligning our work with our purpose. It's a story of stepping away from that societal pressure and expectation and instead stepping towards this deeper understanding of the things that we like and want.

01:53
Before we get into today's episode, I wanted to thank my Patreon members who generously support one episode a month. So thank you to Gale, Nic, and Sari. Your contributions help me work to build this show and get these stories to more people. If you're listening and you're interested in directly supporting the show, accessing bonus episodes, and entering my reoccurring t-shirt giveaway, please check out patreon.com/theLifeShiftpodcast and you'll find all the information you need.

02:23
So without further ado, here's my conversation with Rebecca Kirk. I'm Matt Gilhooly, and this is The Life Shift. Candid conversations about the pivotal moments that have changed lives forever.

02:47
Hello, my friends. Welcome to the Life Shift podcast. I am here with Rebecca. And by the sounds of Rebecca, I think she is in a different country. I am indeed. I am in the UK. I'm in Manchester. Well, thank you for joining me, Rebecca. I appreciate it. And I always think, and this is going to sound so inappropriate, but I always think that people with British accents or English accents sound very smart.

03:12
Well, I think that everybody with American accent sounds like a movie star. So there you go. I thought you were gonna go somewhere else with that, but I appreciate that you want to be a part of this show. This has been one of the most fulfilling journeys for me that I never could have imagined being on. And the show itself for new listeners and for you, if you're unaware.

03:41
The show really stemmed from an assignment that I was doing in a college class during the pandemic when I was bored. And I created the Life Shift because when I was eight, my dad had to sit me down and tell me that my mom was killed in a motorcycle accident. And after that experience, like I failed at grieving because the people around me really just didn't know how to help a young child through it. And...

04:08
I always just felt really alone. And so the curious part of me was like, do other people have these specific moments in which their life was completely like flipped upside down, whether that's an external force or an internal force or whatever that may be. And so now I've had the opportunity, you're the 101st person that I've had an opportunity to talk to. And the thesis is true. People do have these moments in which their lives significantly change.

04:38
Just thank you for just being in this orbit and being a part of this journey. I'm very grateful to be here and looking forward to our conversation and whatever it may take us. The best way to do this maybe is you can kind of tell us, don't give away too much, but tell us a little bit about who you are right now. And then I love when the guests can kind of paint the picture of what their lives were like leading up to this pivotal moment that we're gonna kind of discuss

05:08
dissect today? Yeah, so I work today as a spiritual career coach. So something which emerged really from the pandemic, I started to see a bit of a trend for people wanting help in realigning their career, finding deeper purpose, deeper meaning from the work that they were doing. So yeah, for the last two years, I've been working as a spiritual career coach, mostly working one-to-one.

05:36
And just recently, in fact, this last week, I've just launched my first book, which explains that process. And thank you. Just trying to get that message, that process out to a wider audience. So yeah, that's my main bag as of today. Well, that sounds awesome. And congratulations on the book. I know that is a big undertaking and it's not as simple.

06:05
for a lot of people to just write something and then publish it. The writing itself is hard enough, I am sure, but then the whole editing and publishing and just getting it out there for the world to see and then holding your breath as it's out there into the world is I'm sure something that a lot of people cannot relate to. So congratulations on your book launch. Thank you.

06:29
Yeah, it feels good. It feels like it's been building up for a while. But yeah, it has been released and it's kind of not mine now. It will do whatever it needs to do, I believe. I think that's a healthy approach and outlook to to that. I think as Americans, I can speak for us Americans over here. I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves when we release something creative into the world and hope that.

06:54
you know, it does what it needs to do. I kind of felt that way when I first launched this podcast. It's like, is anyone going to listen? And, you know, what I've really, now that I'm a year and a half or so, maybe a little longer now, into this journey, I realize that these stories are out there forever and that there are people listening that are feeling alone and they might hear, for instance, your story today and something that you said.

07:22
will resonate with them and make them feel a little less alone. And so, you know, I can kind of relate to just putting it out there and understand that it's going to have its own life now that you've put it into the world. Mm, yeah, absolutely. So maybe you can kind of paint the picture of what your life was like leading up to this moment, because I think that it will connect a lot of the dots to what you do now, since you said this kind of happened during the pandemic. So.

07:49
You know, kind of tell us a little bit about who Rebecca was before you hit this, you know, specific pivotal moment that kind of shifted things in your world. So, uh, well, my career began over in Florida in your neck of the woods, over in Palm Beach. Um, I went over there on a graduate, uh, program working in the retail department of the Breakers and, uh, I had a

08:16
fantastic time for a first job and as a 22 year old, never been to the States before, that was quite an experience. And it started me off on a journey in the commercial world, the corporate world, in retail, in buying. And I spent about five years there. I think in that time, I mean, I gained some great experience, great friendships. There was something deeper going on, I think, at that point.

08:45
sort of pushing me back to the UK, which I eventually did in 2001. I continued to be in the corporate world, working for some of the high streets or main sort of supermarket chains, high street chains over here. And again, I don't want to paint a picture that it's all bad, because it absolutely wasn't. And I'd like to think I wouldn't have stayed in it so long if it was so bad, but stayed in that world

09:13
for between 2001 when I returned up until about 2010. So another nine years I spent in that space, living in London, forgot a big chunk of it. Yeah, my life was focused on product, on helping businesses make profit. And yeah, I had a great life, but there was something missing for me. It took me repeating the same patterns. So going from one...

09:41
corporate retailer to another. I repeated that two or three times before I realized there was something deeper I needed to explore. I wasn't connected to my work in the same way that other people appeared to be connected to it. I wasn't interested in climbing the corporate ladder. I wasn't interested in the politics. I just wasn't connected in the same way. And eventually, I realized I needed to disconnect.

10:11
just kind of hop off the bus for a while. And that's when I decided in 2010 to take a career break and which I did over in Sydney in Australia. I will also add that, you know, I think in terms of my personal life, you know, I never really found my thing in terms of relationships and I'd never really found my thing in terms of my spirituality. It was always important to me, but I'd not found.

10:40
a way of truly expressing that or experiencing that. So, you know, whilst life was great, there was a depth that was missing at that point. And going to Australia, that was really, that was my pivotal moment making that decision to disconnect. And the five months that I spent there, that really changed my entire life. Really? What?

11:09
You know, it sounds like, you know, telling your story, I'm wondering if it's similar to kind of how I felt. I talked to a lot of people about what I kind of, I guess, have termed somewhat of a checklist life in which we kind of, you know, the society had these expectations of us to complete school, and then we need to get this job, and then we need to like do well in this job, and people need to respect us in this particular area, and we need to build these skills, and then we're supposed to, you know,

11:38
in our personal life, we're supposed to get married, and we're supposed to buy a house, and we're supposed to do all these things. Did you feel like you were kind of wandering through that and maybe, you know, underneath maybe a little lost because you're not sure where to go, but you're kind of going through the motions, if you will? Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, the societal pressure or the expectations even of friends and families to some degree that you, you know, you get married, you have a family, you want to climb the career ladder.

12:08
it just wasn't resonating with me. And I mean, I'm very grateful that I didn't just choose to sort of go along with that because the way my life has turned around now, I've had a very different experience since I made that break. Before that break, I'm curious, in those 15 years, you said there was like something that was telling you to leave the United States and go back to the UK.

12:37
What was kind of like eating at you? Was it just like a nagging? Was it like an internal nagging? Was it like, oh, maybe there's a better opportunity that I will feel at home or, and then you said you jumped from job to job kind of thing. Was it always like searching for home kind of thing? Like, I just wanna, you know, I feel like I've done that. Like, I just think the next place is the best. Well, absolutely. I mean, I think it's a book title. Wherever you go, there you are.

13:07
So you take your thoughts and your fears and whatever with you, whatever place you are living in the world. And I've certainly found that to be true. So I think possibly there was an aspect that came with me that I then needed to explore. But certainly I needed to reconnect with home. I think after five years, I really deeply missed aspects of home. And I felt like there weren't the growth opportunities for me in Florida in the work that I was doing.

13:34
And expansion, I've realized even just in the process of writing my book, just how important that experience of expansion is to me. And that can translate into relationships, into career in all number of ways. But I think there is something about expanding that is truly just a part of me. And I felt like I would have contracted if I'd have stayed where I was.

14:04
potentially, or indeed even staying within the corporate space in the UK. So almost like another force that was pulling me along. It was calling me. It was calling me back. In the idea of expansion, are we thinking like new experiences, new skills, like newness is important and not just the same old, same old kind of feeling? Is that?

14:33
Is that what you're kind of alluding to? I think feeling like you're evolving as a human being, as a spiritual being, that's an aspect that's important to me. So you're not standing still, you're taking up more space in the world. Yeah, in a good way. It's a very, so it's a very visceral feeling in a good way. Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, allowing yourself to take up more space in the world, which can be a huge challenge. And it's something I work with my clients on as a coach.

15:02
Oh, should I take up more space in the world? Should I claim this role or, you know, should I set up this blog or become a coach or whatever it is? I think there were so many fears and aspects of the ego self that can hold us back from doing that. But I think for many of us, our natural thing is to expand. Well, and you know what's interesting and I don't know why this visual just came to my mind, but.

15:28
You earlier mentioned, you know, like you weren't really interested in the politics of it at all. You weren't interested in climbing the corporate ladder. And then we say expansion. And so it's I think it's important. Maybe it sounds like your expansion was more on the horizontal scale, if you will, and not necessarily the vertical scale in my visualization in the sense that like, I want to take up more space here. That's more like a hug and less like I am better than you. I'm taller than you. I'm.

15:57
doing these things that are more important than you kind of feeling. Does that? I mean, I don't know why that came in my head, but does that kind of- I love that. I've never seen it in that sense before, or yeah, experienced like that, but it makes total sense. Yeah, it's more about a sort of, I suppose, a richer experience of life. And I think that horizontal expansion is personal to everybody, isn't it? I think the point is, it doesn't have to be horizontal, sorry, vertical. If vertical works for you,

16:27
fine. I don't wish to be critical of anybody who's chosen that. I'll do that. But I think it's being able to stop and recognise that's not working for me. And finding the courage to go, I want a different experience of expansion and creating almost your own recipe for that. Yeah, I love that.

16:52
So you, at this point, 15 years, it sounds like, if I'm doing math correctly, that you were in this space kind of operating, not necessarily a vertical growth, but maybe adding a couple more responsibilities, jumping from place to place, feeling important, but also feeling like, this is not really what I should be doing in the world. Was there like a something that happened where you're like, it's time?

17:20
it's time to make this break, it's time to go to Australia. I know sometimes it's like as simple as like someone said a sentence to you that they've said a million times but that one time it stuck. Was there anything like that? Well, I think, I mean, I've always worked for really great people who I've had a lot of respect for. The last couple of people, I found it really challenging but I'm actually very grateful to them.

17:46
because I realized that they were the sort of catalyst, they were the people who pushed me over the edge. So that was actually what spurred me on in the end. And, you know, I had performance reviews were very much kind of more based on how much you're playing that political game, how hungry you were for progression. My heart lied in my small team that I had and helping nurture them. That wasn't important in that world.

18:14
So there was a very clear disconnect. I think a couple of people that I'm deeply grateful to, but just didn't connect with, that I thought, right, that's it, that's it.

18:27
So what happened when you, so you left home again and you went to Sydney, like how was that so impactful for you? What happened there? Well, I think it gave me the space to really process the patterns that I'd been repeating. I discovered a number of different practices there. I discovered Kundalini Yoga, which is

18:54
hugely, hugely powerful. And it basically awakens the sort of creative energy, the creative life force that lays dormant within you and has, I believe, really helped create this pivotal moment. So I picked up that practice. I did Buddhist meditation, which again helped create the head space and the clarity. I also, I spent a lot of time at the ocean. So the ocean's always been very powerful.

19:22
sort of portal for me to just get that headspace and that clarity and that sort of connection to my sort of deeper, deeper self. I think what was particularly powerful was the fact that I was living in a small room in my brother's apartment and I had very few possessions. You know, I had, you know, all of my friends were over in the UK. I didn't have a job. I didn't have a relationship. And I think the simplicity of life over there just

19:52
highlighted to me the deeper experience that lay beyond all of those external things. And I call it an awakening. I had moments of pure bliss just standing by the ocean. And for no particular reason, I just felt blissful. That really was instrumental. I will just say also that I think I entered this space kind of in between two identities. I was letting go of this kind of corporate identity.

20:22
And, you know, the status that went with the job that I did, it, you know, it took a while to sort of pull back from that and relinquish that. I realize now that's my ego talking. And I entered what I realized after I read a book talking about transitions, I realized I was in this place called the neutral zone, which is the space in between one, your old identity and the new identity that you yet to.

20:52
take on board. And before I recognized what was going on, I was wondering around the the beaches and the shopping malls of Sydney thinking what have I done? There was there was an element of regret. I thought I've given up a great job, great salary. What am I doing here? It was kind of like the 40 days 40 nights I had to go through to then reconnect or connect even more deeply to who I truly was or am.

21:22
I had to go through that process and Sydney, I mean, just provided a beautiful backdrop to that, but I had the space, I had the headspace and the physical space with which to do that. I went out there actually intending, I registered with a recruitment agency over there to maybe, thought maybe if I do the same job in Sydney, things would be different. But then I very quickly realised it's not about that. It's about connecting with who I truly am.

21:51
and what's truly important to me. So my life changed completely after that experience. So work, relationships, everything. You know, what stuck out to me, what you were saying is that like, what you were doing before, so much of it was about external validation in some capacity in the way that like you were fitting in, people saw you, there was a certain status, there was a certain...

22:20
paycheck, there was a certain you were able to do these things. And then you made this probably not the easiest decision to leave home, go on the opposite side of the world to another place. And then had a moment to breathe and sit and think and think deeper and not be surrounded by all the noise that was perpetuated throughout those...

22:47
those years in corporate that I think a lot of us can understand. And then you were able to kind of go more towards that like internal validation of some sort of like kind of finding yourself in a way that like, oh, this, this does feel right. This, this space is comfortable. This space feels like a warm hug versus like whatever I was seeking out before. I think a lot of people can relate to that. My question that comes from that is.

23:16
You had these experiences of trying out different practices of meditation of some sort, or yoga, or different spiritual practices. Was this part of your life before? Were you interested in those areas? Did you explore those or was it more like, I thought of them, but I never really jumped into them? Yeah, I've always been interested in spirituality. I mean, I...

23:45
grew up in a, I went to Catholic school, I'm not Catholic, but I've always been around that. My mum was deeply religious, so we've had lots of conversations. I've been exposed to that world and really being in Florida, I think really accelerated that deeper quest because I was around such an extreme of wealth in Palm Beach that it couldn't help but sort of make me question.

24:14
there has to be more to life than this. So that was in a sense, a preliminary awakening, I guess. So I was already very open to it. I just hadn't found my thing. And Kundalini Yoga and Buddhist meditation, they helped me express it and gave me an outlet, which just made sense to me. And I also believe, you know, we're all energetic.

24:42
beings and I think what the yoga practice did was it really created an energy shift. It changed my vibration so that the things that I then started to experience over time, you know, we're talking about sort of, you know, the last 13 years really, it's still unfolding but I feel like I'm vibrating at a different level. Yeah. And the things that have been attracted to me as a result, I believe

25:11
come back to that point in Sydney and creating that energetic shift.

25:18
Did it feel, when you had that moment, was it like, I'm thinking it was probably looking at the ocean or being around the ocean or being near the water in some way, was there like a wash of a different feeling? Like, did you, because it sounds like it was building up to something and then something must have been like, opened that door kind of, I don't know why I keep talking about The Wizard of Oz, but you know when Dorothy opens the door and she's in Oz and everything's in color?

25:47
Did you have a moment like that where it was like, all of a sudden you were like, oh, it all makes sense. This is the direction I need to go. Yeah, I think definitely at the beach, when I had those blissful moments, I realized that there was a, I guess it was a kind of a light bulb moment, really. And it's a funny thing because you can't, much as you try and get yourself back to that moment, you just have to experience it.

26:15
as and when it comes and not kind of grasp for it because that's counter to it. I'd love to, well, I'd love to experience it all the time but the point is I'd had that moment and I think it very often is an act of grace really. We don't sort of ask for it. Maybe the conditions were right, I was open to it and it came through and it came through the ocean because that's how I experience my spirituality. It's not a religious form, it's through nature, through where I believe, you know.

26:45
the universe is part of everything, part of the trees, the sea, you know, animals, insects, it's all around us. And Australia was brilliant at providing that portal. That's amazing. So when you find, you know, part of that blissful moment, I think you don't know it until you have it, and then you...

27:10
go back to another space where you're not having it, and you're like, oh, I need to get back there because that felt right, that felt in the right space. I could simplify this whole idea in my own head and bring it back to this podcast and my own grief journey and how many things I tried to do that I didn't know I was trying to do to find my way here to that healing journey for me. Like I would try writing or I would try.

27:39
digital art or I would try, you know, like whatever kind of outlet of some sort. And then until I did this, which was always like really scary until I did this, I didn't know what that feeling felt like and how it all kind of fit in. So if I simplify it to something like this, it makes sense in my brain, how that kind of blissful moment probably felt similar to you. Like I've been searching, I've been looking, I've been jumping to this job or this space or this country or whatever it may be.

28:09
And now I found it. Like, here it is, can we bottle this up? And the thing is, it's nothing to do with any of those things. And it's something I believe we all have access to within us. I think it's, if we turn the volume down on external things or, you know, we don't, you know, sort of conform, I suppose is the word, to everything that's expected of us, I believe we can tune into that. It is, it is.

28:38
maybe not everybody's experience in this lifetime. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think that, I think, you know, with all these conversations that I've had, I feel like we're in a space now where more people are feeling what you feel and feeling the way that you feel and embracing that and, you know, not necessarily conforming, I think, to what...

29:06
society's expectations are of us as just a general human race. I think there are a lot more people now after we've kind of somewhat emerged from this pandemic experience. I think more people are leaning in. Are you seeing that? More people are leaning into it? Definitely, yeah, absolutely. I'm seeing, I mean, I made the decision to focus purely on working with people on a spiritual path two years ago and it was quite a leap of faith, but every day I'm hearing...

29:35
I ask people, what's attracted you to wanting to work with me? And it is the spiritual aspect that people are really hungry for. And men and women, it's across the board. But the pandemic, I think, gave people the time and the headspace to really question their lives. And also, I think they came face to face with their own mortality in a way they probably haven't before. And that sense of urgency and, oh, gosh, I've got to get on with it.

30:03
got to get on with this thing that I'm meant to be doing, you know, even if they don't have a clear sense of what that is yet, which is, you know, a lot of what I help people figure out what that thing is. But there's a book by, I think it's Wayne Dyer, and it talks, the phrase is, don't die with your music still in you. And I find it so powerful. And I think there was a general sense of, oh, I don't want this not to have come out into the world.

30:31
And I think the world we're in now, you know, with the advent of Zoom and the internet and stuff, we can do our own thing more. We don't have to conform as much. I think we still need the courage and the conviction and all the mental side of it still needs to be worked on. But the infrastructure is there. You know, I couldn't operate in the way that I do, you know, or even having this conversation, you know, without all of that stuff. So it's a much easier world.

31:01
to be able to navigate your own path, but you still need to, you know, the mindset is the only thing that in many cases can stop people from taking that journey. And it's the hardest. It's the hardest to open up. It's when you come from, I mean, most, a lot of people have these upbringings that everything was fed to them in a way that that was how their life was going to be. And those were the thoughts that they were going to have. And those...

31:29
there was no veering from that path. And I think you're right, you know, the pandemic gave them the space. You kind of like your experience in Sydney, 12, 13 years ago was like your own little pandemic moment in which you were allowed to give yourself this space to really think and open up your ideas. And I think for a lot of us that were experiencing this for the first time during the pandemic in 2020, we were sitting there with ourselves.

31:58
And we were like, what is really important? If this is the end, have we done what we need to do? Are we connected with the people that we need to be connected with? I think a lot of people ended relationships, whether that's romantic, friendships, over, you know, like this isn't really serving us, you know, collectively. And so I think it was really an awakening and it kind of seems like it links very much with probably.

32:25
what you created for yourself in a way of that awakening 12, 13 years ago that led you down this path. You know, it seems... Yeah, it's an interesting observation. It seems like we are getting it a little later than you were able to make for yourself. Yeah, but it's, I think the timing is as it's meant to be for every individual.

32:48
you know, some of us kind of come before and some of us come later. And that's all it's meant to be. I think that's kind of how life unfolds. I think, you know, it sounds like and you can correct me. I'm just making assumptions here because I guess that's what I do here on this podcast. But it sounds like this journey, you found this like spiritual side of you, more active, I guess, more active spiritual side of you trying to lean into the energy around you in the universe. And it was like

33:16
10 years of doing that and really proving to yourself that this is a thing, this is how you can operate successfully in the world, and then at some point in this journey you decided, well, I could probably help people do that based on my own 10 years of experience prior in this world. Is that how that unfolded, or how did you get into the decision to be like, okay, now it's time, I feel prepared to help other people in this?

33:46
I feel, I felt very guided, generally speaking. I try and tune into my intuition and to a sense of calling. And this is a big part of my spirituality. And the approach that I work with clients on is to listen for that call or tune into that call. I talked about like the inner pull earlier. I had an inner pull towards creating this kind of niche and working particularly with this kind of person. It's not to say it wasn't scary.

34:15
I thought I could completely, you know, my business could take a nose dive overnight here and somebody had actually said to me about, oh, don't use the word spiritual in, you know, things to do with business or career or whatever. But I just ignored it. There was an innate drive to do this. Just like with my book, you know, I felt very called to do it. And I think when you listen to that and you sense it from the heart space as opposed to the head space, I think.

34:44
It comes with a greater sense of conviction and confidence and trust. And thankfully that's how it's played out the last couple of years. I guess if it hadn't have played out like that, hopefully I would have seen the lesson and the learning in it. But there were too many signs coming to me about what people were presenting with, the types of clients I was attracting, and that it didn't make sense to me anymore to leave that side of life out.

35:14
of the equation. There were too many tools and ways of seeing things and doing things that can help people. And I believe, you know, the way the world is at the moment, I think this is our salvation, if you like, this is our way through it, is to connect more deeply. So, yeah, I just had to go for it. But listening from within is what really helped. I wouldn't have made the decision from my head, I don't think.

35:43
There is something that I think a lot of people have intuition. I don't think a lot of people listen to it or take action on that. But I would imagine the first time is scarier than the second time you do it. And the second time is scarier than the third time you do it. And eventually, you build up this trust in which you can trust in yourself and in that pull, in that intuition that you have.

36:10
that this is gonna work out or it's gonna be a lesson or it's gonna be something that teaches me something that will in fact help me later on. And so I would imagine that was kind of a process. What did those like in between years look like? Cause you mentioned your business. So it kind of shifted in some way. What were those, what happened after that Sydney experience that kind of led you here?

36:33
So, actually whilst I was still over in Sydney, I set myself up as a retail and brand consultant. So I'd already recognized that working for somebody else wasn't gonna be my path anymore. So I literally set my business up over there. And yeah, I spent the next sort of four or five years working, my heart lied with working with the small kind of creative entrepreneurs. I did do some corporate work as well. It paid the way and.

37:03
enabled me to kind of keep going with it. And then I actually helped an old colleague in my last corporate job. I helped her in looking to make that same jump out of the corporate world. And she said to me, oh, I've been working with a life coach. She said, oh, you ought to think about that, just from the help that I'd given her. So that little seed had been planted. And then...

37:28
It was, I think maybe a few months after that, I distinctly remember being on a beach in Norfolk on the East coast of England. And again, looking out at the sea, I just had this very clear message that I needed to retrain as a life coach. It sort of whacked me around the face at light bulb moment. And that was it. So I duly went and trained in early 2016. I feel like I've found my thing.

37:58
now and it feels right the sort of yeah and the lack of confidence and drive and whatever that I sometimes experienced in the corporate world has just kind of melted away and I realized you know when you are deeply connected to your purpose it's amazing what comes with it and that and again that's why I'm so passionate about helping other people find their purpose and connect with their with their true power with their their confidence their conviction which I believe

38:28
is there for most everybody I think and the purpose could be on any scale. You know I talk about purpose in a in a it doesn't just have to be through paid work I will just say this for me purpose can be derived from you know things in in general life as well we can we can derive fulfillment in a number of different ways and I think sometimes we can pin so much on it coming just from our paid work that I think that pressure can be counterproductive.

38:57
So I always open the discussion on purpose by suggesting a broader definition. And also there is, I think, a spiritual dimension to purpose as well that I think can be very helpful. But yeah, I think there's lots of opportunities every day for us all to connect more.

39:18
I love that like your two maybe most significant pivotal moments were at the ocean or at the water. Do you sometimes just like schedule time to go there and hopes like new things will unfold and kind of I should do. Yeah, I should do because I'm very landlocked where I live. I'm very landlocked. I've actually just come from a retreat up in the Scottish islands.

39:45
where we're completely surrounded by water. So I'm kind of feeling the effects of that now and I've booked my next one already, but I get it from going out into the woods, into the forest as well. Thankfully, that's another point of connection, but yeah, I think more time at the ocean. Imagine what comes next of it. It's just, I think if you find your spot, if you find the place that makes the most sense for you that you can connect with and feel that bliss kind of that you were describing in Sydney.

40:14
Do you still feel, do you still have like this, I don't wanna call it an epiphany, but this idea of shifting into coaching and helping people as like a spiritual help in that sense or shifting your business in that way. Was that moment at the water, that's a similar bliss like feeling to what you described earlier on in Sydney? In a sense it was, because it was a connection to.

40:43
a higher realm, but I think the bliss in Sydney was, it was so pure because it wasn't dependent on anything. It wasn't dependent on a certain job or person or tangible thing. And to me, that is the ultimate when you can find that within you. You know, I mean, yes, we still have to function in the world. It's not to say we can all kind of go around in that blissful state. That would be lovely. I think just it would be lovely. But I think remembering that that is

41:12
that is lurking there underneath. And I think that's why things like meditation for me are very powerful and having a daily practice that reminds you to just try and connect with that place. And I think from that place, that the sort of being place, if you like, the blissful place, it empowers the rest of your day, the work that you do, the things that you can attract into your life, what you have to offer other people. I think if you can tune into that part of yourself.

41:40
we can all become much more powerful. This is gonna sound really, this is gonna sound very matte for regular listeners of this show, but part of me or very much of my life has been this kind of type A analytical, I don't wanna say logical, but like step-by-step kind of person. And part of me, as you're explaining, like going, like being tuning into that and going to the water and going into nature and those kinds of things.

42:10
I picture myself having these now creating in that world, creating more expectations of that. Like I show up, something better happened. Is that anything that you work with people about like now, okay, I've opened myself, now I'm expecting something to happen. Do you have people like that? Or do you experience any of those moments where you're like- Yeah, I do, absolutely.

42:32
Yeah, I do experience that. I think that's, you know, that for me is the sort of human coming right up against the spiritual, you know, the human desire for certainty or outcomes or whatever. So for example, with meditation, I would always recommend that the clients go into it with no expectations other than just to go beyond the thinking mind. That's enough. But I think it is a natural part of it. And it can be helpful to some degree. But I think this is where trust comes in, you know, to trust that.

43:01
things will happen and unfold and be presented in the right timing for that person. So trust is a very powerful, and people wanting a career change at a certain time or wanting to know what they're meant to be doing, I have clients that come and they're like, oh, how can I expedite this whole process? I need to know. And my answer is always the same, well, where is that coming from? Because that energy is not always helpful to the process. And

43:31
It's very counterintuitive to sort of trust and just sort of surrender to the process. I have a very logical brain as well, Matt. So I do have those battles quite often. I do relate to what you're saying, but I think I've learned more and more. Well, to see, well, how has that been working out for me when I have purely wanted to kind of figure things out and get the detail down. How has that worked out for me? And quite often, not that great.

44:00
I think the mind is a hugely powerful tool, but I'm trying to let that kick in after I've listened here from the heart space. So it's not to sort of say that's not part of the mix. It is, but to sort of try and tune in from here first and then go, okay, right, you can do your thing now. Like with my book, it was very much came from here, from the heart and then, you know, the logical brain, okay, I plan out every chapter, I'll get all the production schedule ready.

44:30
That was having a field day, but it felt sort of more appropriate because it came secondary to what was here. Yeah, I think there's this like assumption, and maybe it's just mine, that like when someone says like, they're spiritual, or they're in this spiritual space, that it's all, forgive me, quote unquote, woo woo, right? Like it's all there all the time.

44:59
But really what you're saying is like, we're all still human, we're all going to still make human decisions and human reactions and those kinds of things. But if we can take these moments to sit in this openness, this space of listening to the energy around us and in us and all those pieces, then that's that fuller, fuller formed spiritual journey that you kind of help people with. Is that correct? Yeah, absolutely. You know,

45:26
there is a very definite sort of human aspect to this journey and a spiritual aspect to it. And it's honoring both of them, honoring both of them. It was interesting when I was in Sydney and I went to the Buddhist class, I remember people like a Buddhist nun, you just kind of can put on almost that pedestal of she's above it all, she is completely pure and spiritual. And I remember having a conversation with her about how...

45:53
how annoyed she was with her sister, her sister had done something and it obviously triggered a human response. And it was so powerful to me to remember she's still having a human experience. You know, so I learned a lot from that. I think that's the gap. I think that is the gap. I think that is where so many people dismiss certain things.

46:21
or write them off as, oh, that's not me, because we think it's all or nothing, because that's how we're trained in some capacity in society. It's like, go all in, you know? And it's not, it's really not, and I think that was probably a really helpful reminder for you, but I think for listeners to hear that example as well, it's like, that Buddhist nun is still a person. She's still gonna have all the range of emotions and different things affecting her as well.

46:52
Yeah, and I think we're meant to experience those things. Yeah, you know, we're not idolizing this particular person. There are flaws to all of us. And I think in a lot of cases, the flaws kind of make us who we are and kind of add a little bit of dimension or beauty or some one of those words that we might want to assign to it, or at least that's what I'm telling myself, you know, and that, and that I'm not perfect. And that's what's cool. You know, like, that's what makes me me.

47:23
Yeah, I think the quest for perfection, be that in terms of who you are as a person or making the right career change, I think it can be such a hindrance. And I think once you learn to accept those parts of yourself or those parts of the journey, that can be a real game changer. What do you think is the biggest difference between Rebecca now and like Rebecca on that flight heading to Sydney? Like what, in the way that you see the world or what's the biggest difference in...

47:53
in who you are as a person.

47:57
I think I'm more in touch with who I truly am within. I'm more, you know, I've been willing to put myself out there and I'm more vulnerable, I'm more confident. The fact that I'm on this show with you, my, I think, is testament to that. Never know what I'm gonna say. Scary. I'm able to voice my own truth now and live in complete alignment with who I am in terms of...

48:27
my spirituality in terms of my work and in terms of relationships, I'm kind of owning that more now. It's been a journey to get to this point, you know, for sure. But yeah, if I look back to who I was back in 2010 on that plane, I feel like it's almost like an out of body experience when I think of her. But I had to go through, you know, those steps and that part of the journey, just as we all do. I don't think you could come out straight.

48:54
into who I am today. And that's life. No, that would be nice. Was that version of Rebecca before, were you more like, more reserved, more closed off, you weren't, you would kind of go with whatever everyone else is doing and just keep your thoughts to yourself? Or was there a little bit of poking the bear, if you will?

49:20
I think I did go along with a lot of things, albeit I didn't go along with having to get married and have children. I felt very clear on that. But work-wise, I kind of, yeah, I was on that path and I didn't question it too much until I really did question it. So yeah, I think I have been quite reserved. If back then someone was talking about...

49:47
a spiritual journey or anything like that. Would you have voiced your opinions in that or would you have just kind of kept those to yourself? I probably would have kept them to myself. Yeah. You know, and I, even now, I kind of only would speak out if I genuinely felt like I could contribute in a conversation. I think that's still a part of me. Yeah, you're not trying to convince or convert, right? You're not, it's not like that. Not at all. No. I think a lot of people are afraid of that. We all have our own version of it. Hmm, yeah.

50:17
But I think just, you know, being comfortable in your own skin, and maybe I think this is an age thing as well, you know, what, 13 years older now, and I think that does come with that, that sense of just being comfortable with who you are. I agree. Yeah. And then on a different wavelength, I relate to that as well. There was a period of time in which I kept all of how I was feeling about my mother.

50:46
dying and about, you know, having to go live with my father and him not knowing, like, how to do things that maybe I thought he should have done. And I didn't know. But I kept a lot of that to myself. And the older I got, the more comfortable I was with telling people that I wasn't okay, that things were not good, and that I was depressed or that I had a moment of...

51:12
extreme anxiety or whatever it may be, or I was just sad, like it was just not a good day. And the more that I lean into that, the more I think I feel in the way that you describe how you feel. It's like more in touch with like the true essence of myself and not feel like I have to hide it or you know, like it just is. Like I am just a human and I'm just trying to do what everyone else is trying to do and it's not all sunshine and rainbows, right? And so

51:41
By sharing that, it makes me feel more human, if that makes any sense. Yeah, absolutely. I think sharing your story, I think it creates such a powerful point of connection as well as helping other people. No doubt you sharing your story has helped a lot of people on their grief journey, I guess. But I think when you are willing to go there and, okay, this is me, this is my story.

52:09
I think that can build up momentum and just encourage you to keep doing it. And certainly I've noticed in my coaching practice, people aren't interested in whether I'm a qualified coach or not, they're interested in what's my story? What have I been through that they can relate to? So people will say, oh gosh, I'm in the corporate world and I think you understand where I'm coming from and to have that sort of degree of empathy is far more powerful in connecting you with people than.

52:38
I've got a great big long list of qualifications, which I'm not saying aren't important at all, but yeah, I think be willing to be vulnerable is kind of what I was sort of hearing when you were talking about some of your journey there, Matt. And I think there is great power in vulnerability. Yeah, and I think to your point about people that work with you, it's really about trust, right? The more you can share about yourself and your truth and you're not...

53:05
performative in any kind of way, it's just, it is what it is, I think people will naturally trust you more because you're also just another human here with us that maybe has a couple pieces of advice or something that you can push them outside of their own circle that they continuously think in, right? Like you just poke that hole a little bit so that they think a little bit differently. And so I think there's that human element develops the trust, I think.

53:35
Yeah, for sure. I think, yeah, when you're working with somebody at this level, I think you have to trust. And, you know, when I've worked with coaches equally, that's an important ingredient. It's not the paper. It's not the certification. It's not any of those things that builds the trust. It's the human. So I'm wondering if you, if this version of you could go back to Rebecca, that's, you know, kind of taking her walks on the beach in Sydney and just finding these moments and wondering,

54:04
I'm in this neutral space. I'm in this, like, what am I doing? Did I really, did I make this decision? Is this good? Is there anything that you would want to tell her or whisper into her ear that might help her on this journey?

54:19
I think it probably comes back to trust as well and just to sort of enjoy the adventure and just know that everything that you need is already within you. And I truly believe that with everybody, we have what we need within us. I think it's sometimes just about aligning or realigning our outer circumstances with who we truly are, as opposed to trying to find something we can fit into.

54:46
And that's my process and it's in the book as well, is to start from those foundations of who we are. So I think just really trusting in that. And yeah, I mean, I've been through it in terms of anxiety and different things. And so I think just learning to let go of that, I think would be helpful. After the loss of my mum in 2019,

55:13
It's interesting, I really feel like that, I've let go of a lot of anxiety. And again, sort of another pivotal moment really, that, because my mom had a lot of anxiety herself and I almost get this sense she's saying to me, don't waste your life like I did, feeling anxious. I agree, when I watched my grandmother die from cancer, I remember towards the end, she told us all, she's like, I wish I hadn't worried so much because none of it.

55:41
all that matters at the end is love. And you're like, oh yeah. And that was really impactful for me moving forward is like, stop, stop wasting all this energy on worry. And sounds like you did the same with your anxiety. I've seen, thank you for sharing your story. I know we kind of went into this that I'm not super spiritual, but it all makes sense. It all makes sense to really trust your intuition, trust the energy inside you, trust the energy around you, trust your intuition and all these pieces. So thank you for sharing that story.

56:10
If listeners want to read your book or learn more about you or get in your orbit, what's the best way that they can find out more about you? Yeah, so, excuse me, my website is rebeccakirk.co.uk. You can find out all the details on my book on there. It will be going on Amazon as well. It's called You're Here For A Reason. You can also join my mailing list. I put out content every month, regular content on the usual channels, Instagram, Facebook.

56:40
LinkedIn, so there's all ways to connect. But if you go to my website first, and there's a few free resources as well, so if anybody's feeling not sure whether to make a change in their career, for example, I've got a career change quiz, I've got a free on-demand webinar as well that can help people with the mindset side of things in terms of making that shift. So yeah, hopefully something of help to some of your listeners. Yeah, we will share that.

57:04
that link in the show notes and they'll just go to your website and they can find all those things right they can connect with you there and check out all the things that you have I think there are a lot of people that will listen to your story and that have been like in this neutral zone if you will and maybe like are ready to be open but they need a little nudge or they needed to hear something that you said that impacted your life in a way that has totally changed it so you know just thank you for being vulnerable and coming on to a show that

57:32
You don't know me, we don't know each other, and we don't know where this conversation was going to go, but I really just appreciate having this conversation today. Yeah, well, me too. And thank you for having this platform of which you can share these stories as with your other guests that have come on. So yeah, thank you. It's been a great conversation.

57:52
And if anyone's listening that really enjoyed this episode and you know someone in your life that might need to hear what Rebecca has to share, we would appreciate it if you would share this episode with those people and spread the word. You never know whose story is going to affect someone around you in a profound way. And so that's why we're here. That's why we share these stories.

58:16
That's why we exist. So thank you so much for being a part of this, Rebecca. And for those of you listening, we'll be back next week with a brand new episode. Have a great day, Rebecca. Thank you, you too.

58:38
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